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Old 2012-10-03, 17:03   Link #41
marvelB
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^Well, that's where the alliances come in, as I've been constantly arguing throughout these threads. No matter how powerful the supernovas may be on their own, they still face the very real possibility of being wiped out by the top brass of the New World. So the solution? Seek alliances with other powerful pirates, thus increasing their chances of survival! Of course, some certain members still don't see eye to eye with me on this, but let's leave that alone for now, shall we?


Anyhoo, now that Smoker vs. Vergo is underway, here's to hoping that the rest of Doflamingo's reinforcements arrive next chapter....
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Old 2012-10-04, 05:37   Link #42
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Could this be what's ahead... Monet & Ceasar will get away... Vergo tries to hunt down all the witnesses... Luffy is going to put end to that.. they both have hardening technic... and then strawhats go after Ceasar etc. etc.
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Old 2012-10-04, 12:20   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
How should they?
Seriously. It was implied thad Doflamingo and his underlings were on a different island. Even by flying it should take a few hours, but by ship at least a few days. Only minutes passed since he ordered them to go there.
To me it would be implausible if they arrived before the whole battle is over and everyone departed from Punk Hazard.

We don't know exactly how far away that other island is though, do we? If anything, it's probably just a few hours or so away from PH, since Dofla sounded confident that his men could take care of the whole intruder situation relatively quickly. And again, it could also depend on just how speedy their transportation could be (I wouldn't doubt in the least that faster methods of sea travel may have been made during those two years).....
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Old 2012-10-05, 05:46   Link #44
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I bet he is not devilfruit user.
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Old 2012-10-05, 08:21   Link #45
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^ Yeah.. dodging is essential against Luffy, whose power has no boundaries and Luffy also haven't Sanji's 'weakness' since he can harden his body parts.
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Old 2012-10-05, 11:44   Link #46
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Quote:
No one would stand a chance against him if he was moving with the actual speed of light
Not true.

Many fighters in OP world have super human strength and super human speed. It would only stand to reason that they have super human reactions as well.
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Old 2012-10-05, 13:07   Link #47
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^To be fair, the only other person aside from Kizaru who claimed to have light-speed attacks was Kuma (and that was only when he made those air shockwaves with his paw powers). But otherwise, I'm also with the others who say that most other combatants would most likely be screwed if Kizaru's speed weren't nerfed.....
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Old 2012-10-05, 17:05   Link #48
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^Personally, I am fine with Kizaru not being able to actually move at the speed of light. Or, more specifically, attack at the speed of light. I imagine that Kizaru can move at the speed of light, but to be able to move with purpose and aim requires brain activity, and I expect Kizaru is limited by how slow a brain reacts versus how fast his fruit can go. Consequently, Kizaru probably moves at the speed it takes a neuron to fire, but he could potentially go faster if he moved without purpose (ala 10 Fingers McGee way back during Ussop's introduction story arc).
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Old 2012-10-06, 03:25   Link #49
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^That, if Kizaru did move at the speed of light, he wouldn't even be able to see where he was going.


That being said, one shouldn't argue physics too much in a topic about One Piece.
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Old 2012-10-06, 07:55   Link #50
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I'd like to point out that I do not equate Vergo to VA level. He is actually a spy for domflamingo, he currently holds a position for VA, meaning his abilities are at least VA but not at all restricted to VA. This goes for any character at the level, but in Vergo's case it is in his best interest to be discrete and his fighting abilities may be one of them.

Vergo is absolutely crushing Law. It will be very interesting if Smoker and Vergo fight..

Oh Luffy why didn't you evade Monets attack..
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Old 2012-10-07, 00:51   Link #51
grey_1960
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Sanji and Law
I am thinking with the performance Law and Sanji showed on Vice Admiral Vergo (Pirate Vergo), Sanji is stronger then Law. Sanji came out with a cracked leg but he still matched Vergo blow for blow. Besides the cracked leg Vergo never really landed any blows on Sanji. Law looks like he got the crap beaten out of him. The speed at which Sanji and Vergo fought each other seemed like the same speed. I don't see Law beating Sanji with the crappy performance he put on in the SAD room against Vergo.
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Old 2012-10-07, 03:37   Link #52
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Vergo didn't have Sanji's heart in his hands though.
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Old 2012-10-07, 09:19   Link #53
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For a moment there, I thought Luffy would Gear up (thus increasing his body temperature) in order to counter Monet - would've been pretty cool...

And Kizaru would be faster if he laid off the weed for a while
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Old 2012-10-07, 09:25   Link #54
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Well I can't understand Vergo's ability. I feel that his agility is similar to those CP9s Sanji mode
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Old 2012-10-07, 13:20   Link #55
grey_1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Vergo didn't have Sanji's heart in his hands though.
Familiarity
The more and more we see of Law the weaker he becomes. I am not saying he is weak but in the sense you become familiar with his tactics. Law needs that room to gain any advantage of his powers. His speed and fighting capabilities are enhanced by it. When it comes to just peer fighting skills he does not seem on par with Smoker, Vergo, Sanji, or any other strong fighter. If you have strong haki (you can resist his shambles), very fast speed, and muscles to back up your skills you become Laws weakness.

Look at Vergo, the first time we saw Vergo he went straight to the heart and took Law out right away. Why did he not do that the second time? Law was able to make a room and he was able to reclaim his heart for a whole second. Oda is trying to tell the readers Vergo is a strong fighter. Second the time it took the heart to disappear and reappear in Law's hand, Vergo matched the speed. Even if Law had his heart back, if he is not stronger or faster then the opponent inside the Room then he loses any advantage the Room gives him. That fight in the SAD room was pathetic. Even if Law had his heart I doubt the outcome would have been any different.
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Old 2012-10-07, 13:57   Link #56
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That being said, Law couldn't have been all that powerful considering he is

1) Not a strawhat
2) Doflamingo's former subordinate, and as we all know, authority equals asskicking

He isn't the close combat type of guy anyway. His abilities are clearly of the utility variety.
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Old 2012-10-07, 14:14   Link #57
janipani
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oh my... I really don't think Sanji is stronger than Law by just using Vergo as measurement.

Firstable Sanji got Vergo by surprise. Vergo never went at him at full power. Sanji made no harm to Vergo, neither did Law.

Vergo was after Law and also we can assume that he used much more power to tackle him than Sanji.

There are too much uncertainties to make any notations on whose who by looking at past fights. But as a supernova Law is considered to be closer to Luffy than Sanji what comes to fighting. And of course physical attacks can be seen as Laws weakness. Vergo is Law's cryptonite, super fast and physical, who also knows all Law's tricks and abilities.

Sanji however is also physical like Vergo, but Vergo beated him in Sanji's own game. That means Sanji got pretty much owned as well. Vergo is at the moment best kicker on the island... well if Luffy's axe or spear doesn't count as one.
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Old 2012-10-07, 14:48   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
That being said, Law couldn't have been all that powerful considering he is

1) Not a strawhat
2) Doflamingo's former subordinate, and as we all know, authority equals asskicking

He isn't the close combat type of guy anyway. His abilities are clearly of the utility variety.
^
I think it is more along the lines that we never understood the power he possessed. Most devil fruit users at first seem powerful but once you get to know them they start to lose their invincibility. For Law it is him who is the weakness not the devil fruit.

I am really curious to see what Vergo's powers or skills are. He beat Sanji by one factor and that was by having better quality body than Sanji. His movements when he traveled seemed like he probably weight more like 500 lbs. He lunches himself like he is letting the momentum of the weight carry him. What ever he is doing he seems like his can make his body harder and it almost seems like he can manipulate his weight. Sanji even described him has a mass of Iron. I know one of Crocs henchmen had the ability to manipulate her weight but I forgot the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janipani View Post
oh my... I really don't think Sanji is stronger than Law by just using Vergo as measurement.

Firstable Sanji got Vergo by surprise. Vergo never went at him at full power. Sanji made no harm to Vergo, neither did Law.

Vergo was after Law and also we can assume that he used much more power to tackle him than Sanji.

There are too much uncertainties to make any notations on whose who by looking at past fights. But as a supernova Law is considered to be closer to Luffy than Sanji what comes to fighting. And of course physical attacks can be seen as Laws weakness. Vergo is Law's cryptonite, super fast and physical, who also knows all Law's tricks and abilities.

Sanji however is also physical like Vergo, but Vergo beated him in Sanji's own game. That means Sanji got pretty much owned as well. Vergo is at the moment best kicker on the island... well if Luffy's axe or spear doesn't count as one.
Chapter 681 displays a pretty even fight. Vergo also does not look like he was holding back. Second Supernovas range in power. Just because they were close two years ago does not mean they are close now. So after two years you have to wonder has the gap between Law and Luffy gotten smaller or larger? Fourth Sanji is very observant and smart. Yes Vergo beat Sanji at his own game but it was by only one factor. He had a better quality body then Sanji's. Finally the performance look at Sanji and Law. Sanji came out with a cracked leg, thats it. Law has bruises all over his body and he was soundly defeated. Has for being caught off guard Vergo actually had time to ask a question before he got kicked in the face. I think it is long the lines he could not dodge the attack. Finally getting owned is what happened to Law. Sanji lost to Vergo but it was a close fight not a onslaught.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2012-10-07 at 15:19.
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Old 2012-10-07, 15:34   Link #59
marvelB
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Y'know, it's funny, but just a few pages back I also brought up how Sanji seemed to be on equal ground with Vergo prior to his leg getting broken. But in the end, I also feel it's too early to judge who's stronger between Law and the third of the monster trio, especially since neither of them were exactly in 100% tip-top condition when they encountered Vergo.....
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Old 2012-10-07, 16:10   Link #60
grey_1960
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^Try using Bold Letters
I try to put all my post in Memo Format. With the title of the subject bold following the subject. People respond better to the argument. Article writers on internet and newspaper do it all the time to grab attention. I do it because it helps me focus on what I am going to say and organizes my arguments better.
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