2012-10-22, 03:35 | Link #81 | |
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You see there's this process in converting hand-drawn cels to the actual animated thing that is broadcast. F21 is claiming that Nippon animation messed-up either in the converting or the film masters or something to that affect, making it duller than Furuhashi+Nippon Animation+Shueishia+Fuji TV intended (as in it was something they did not anticipate; after all, it was a "fuck-up"). It is because of this "fuck-up" that the auction attack and Danchou vs Zaoldyecks in 1999 were inferior (compared to 2011) because you couldn't "see what was happening". I hope I was fair in summarizing the issue. You're welcome. |
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2012-10-22, 03:41 | Link #82 | |
cho~ kakkoii
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2012-10-22, 03:51 | Link #83 | ||
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Hmm I can't see my (really long) post. Probably something wrong with my internet connection. Good thing I saved a copy. Reposting:
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- I gave examples of cels from other animes that aired around those times and showed that they are also brighter compared to the actual broadcast product (if you have watched those animes you will know what I mean). -But F21 replies that 1999’s composition cannot be attributed to this industry norm back then. Even considering this, F21 says NA’s HxH is unusually dark for its day and that again and that this was a “fuck-up” by 1999. I ask how she can say this was a fuck-up rather than a stylistic choice. She replies, “Because you are not able to see what’s happening.” a. How can she generalize the composition of the entire series as being a fuck-up because of two scenes that happened only much later in the series (auction attack, Danchou vs Zaoldyecks)? (But in response, I expect her to point-out how earlier scenes like the Manhunt exam is “too dark”. Heh.) b. Not to mention that this is just her view and that 99% of viewers do not find a problem with the lighting of those scenes? c. And even if she holds that suspicion (nothing wrong with it, your own life), how can she responsibly state the “fuck-up” being a fact rather than a stylistic choice? What is her basis for making the claim? Did she read any interview/article that alluded to this? Is she an expert that she can immediately spot a “fucked-up” conversion? She already said that she’s not an expert but that the fuck-up is “easy” to deduce. How is it easy to deduce when 99% of viewers don’t have any problem with the lighting, much less think it is a fuck-up? d. What is too dark for the 90s anyway? It can range from Akazukin Cha Cha to Rurouni Kenshin OVA1. Is 1999 unusually dark that it is a fuck-up? As a non-expert, I can’t tell. I mean, I find Rurouni Kenshin OVA darker than 1999 so does this mean that RK’s conversion is also a fuck-up? How can an average person like me tell for sure that I am so confident to parade it as fact? Is it when you can’t see what’s happening on the screen? But what if most viewers report seeing what’s happening just fine? e. Furuhashi, Nippon Animation, Shueishia, Fuji TV and other experienced staff members involved and they “fuck-up” something as basic as series composition. They did not also bother correcting it midway through the series, in fact it got even darker as it went along. f. Which makes the transition from OVA 1 to GI being an “evidence” for F21’s claim even more amusing. Was 1999’s composition really a mistake? Was GI the true intended outcome? Then why wasn’t it corrected in OVA 1? OVA 1 is just as dark, maybe even darker. The simple solution is that we take the more rational explanation that there was a different staff working on it, there was a change in ballgame from handdrawn to digital, that the brighter scheme was a shift in stylistic choice by (again) a different staff with the view that GI is an arc about a game. Consequently, the 1999 and OVA 1 staff did their job well as good professionals do. Yes, there’s a difference between cel quality and actual broadcast quality, but that was due to the technological limitations of the time, something that other companies and series were also subject to. Simple really, so why do we still have to resort to spouting this nonsense against the 1999 series? I don’t even care about how bright the room is in episode 52 FFS. Anyway that was long-winded, but Dengar, my point is that the supposed poor quality of conversion being a fuck-up by NA is something I’ve heard before and continue to dispute. What is new to me that the 1999 was so dark “it was so hard to see what was happening” during the fight and the auction attack. Add to that the "seizure-inducing effects" and "animation stuttering." Also, unlike the post above, this is not really a factual claim but one of impression. Were the scenes truly too dark for the viewers to see? Were the bright lights really so jarring that they can be considered seizure-inducing if you had epilepsy? I've said it over and over again, but in my 10 years as an HxH fan I’ve never heard of this complaint. It’s a “problem” that was just invented now. But sheesh, that was tiring. Calling it a day. Quote:
>cel = brighter than broadcast quality >nippon animation fucked-up By the way F21, I finally got to see the videos. So you meant the actual clips, I already compared them yesterday. Anyway, can you edit your link for the 1999 version? This video has waaay better quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUw55rnjoe8 Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-22 at 04:15. |
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2012-10-22, 04:38 | Link #84 | |
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How can you call a scene so dark you can't tell what's going on a stylistic choice? Or a scene that's blurry and grainy? Or animation with stuttering flashes that have no place being there? These are not features. These are problems that have always existed, but you refuse to see. Take your much clearer video as an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUw55rnjoe8 At around 2:37 - 2:38, the entire scene starts flashing And again between 6:02 - 6:04. |
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2012-10-22, 04:52 | Link #85 | |
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When I said "It’s a 'problem' that was just invented now", I meant that a month (hey, let's even say a week) before episode 52 was aired I have heard NO ONE make this complaint. After all, wasn't the crux of your argument that the "poor quality" of 1999 easy to deduce? You're not an expert after all, just like me. So this observation does not need an expert eye. So no, I'm not referring to scene itself. Of course what you see there will always "have been there" because as far as I can tell, the video has not changed since it was first uploaded to the internet perhaps 9 years ago. But now it turns out that I "refuse" to see it? What if I tell you that 99% of those who have seen 1999 do not see it as well? What if I tell you that you are the only one who did, and you "saw" it probably just a month ago (a week ago?) after the series has been in existence for more than a decade now? And did you just seriously call 2:37 - 2:38 and 6:02 - 6:04 as seizure-inducing flashing that have no place being there? Uhm, okay. I have made many other points as well by the way. The scope of the discussion that is worth more the effort replying to than my refusal "to see the problems" of 1999. It will be a shame for the discussion to be oversimplified to this personal attack. Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-22 at 05:08. |
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2012-10-22, 05:01 | Link #86 | |
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2012-10-22, 05:09 | Link #88 | ||
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There is no issue here. I'm simply stating what I believe to be true, and I have provided the necessary evidence. People have always said the series is 'dark', and they're not always talking about the atmosphere - I gave a explanation, one that makes much more sense than "stylistic choice" or whatever it is you keep rabbiting on about.
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WHAT?! I haven't personally attacked you once. |
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2012-10-22, 05:25 | Link #89 | |
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And no, referring to parts of the video and declare the stuttering of a frame and as a mistake is not an "evidence." I have seen the same scene over 50 times already and in my view it's a stylistic choice. I haven't heard anyone say that the stuttering was a mistake either for the past 10 years. Your word is no more credible than ours; just because you declare something to be so, doesn't mean it is. So really, what evidence? Anyway this is obviously a done issue. F21 hasn't even replied to my other more relevant arguments. She made a big claim and the burden is on her to prove it. So far nothing. Back to living my life. Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-22 at 05:51. |
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2012-10-22, 05:34 | Link #90 |
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Final post on the matter
Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqHObo1yvyg Look at the flashing at 4-10 seconds. It is much worse than in episode 62's. Is this a mistake too? Is the entire series a mistake? Did Furuhashi, Fuji TV and Studio Gallop fuck-up? Derp. Absurd claim is absurd, and unfortunately this isn't the first time such claims have been made against the 1999 series. Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-22 at 07:54. |
2012-10-22, 06:00 | Link #91 |
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Ugh..You're right about one thing - this is a done issue. I wish I hadn't brought it up at all.
You disregard everything I have to say under the pretense that I'm using an assumed identity and handwave any evidence I provide. But you might be right; maybe Nippon Animation did this intentionally: Case closed, right? |
2012-10-22, 06:45 | Link #92 | ||||
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But here's an example of unnecessary change. They made the room dark so they can make Killua "hide" in the dark instead of adapting the scene as it is and show Rythm Echo. Quote:
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Kurapika's main mission was to hunt the Spiders, but that changed to protecting Neon after her gambit. The guards didn't allow the ambulance to pass at first but they had to as ordered by Nostrade. And since there was a Spider on the loose in the same building he couldn't afford to leave her for a long time. But they still provide information that were not mentioned in the episode. Last edited by SHINOBI-03; 2012-10-22 at 07:04. |
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2012-10-22, 08:19 | Link #93 | ||
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@Shinobi
I have no time currently for more shenanigans. I will reply to you this weekend. Quote:
The only thing I missed was this single screenshot. But don't worry, I will deal with the screenshot you posted as well as the others Shinobi posted this weekend, wait for it. It's also funny how you are making a big deal out of a single screenshot when you ignored much of my arguments in this post: Spoiler:
Edit: Wait wait, I disregarded everything you said because I presumed your identity? I just threw the Toto = F21 thing once as an offhand comment and never referred back to it again. I don't care if you're Toto or not, it has nothing to do with my response. I think you are, but it doesn't really matter to me. And it's funny how quick you were to relating Goty's post ("And glad to see more and more people are onto "him". I just hope they won't punish anyone else for it.") to my offhand comment. I myself didn't make the connection and pretty much just ignored Goty's statement, since I thought it was pretty vague and I wasn't sure what Goty was trying to say. You're pretty sharp for someone who just joined this month and who had only five posts then. (And let me remind you that it is you who brought this topic up.) Quote:
Last edited by chikkychappy; 2012-10-22 at 09:14. |
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2012-10-22, 17:55 | Link #95 | |
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I think people who want a honest comparison should just do it themselves - watch the two versions and if possible, read the manga. That's better than relying on unfair views. Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-10-23 at 11:26. Reason: Off-topic bit removed and lets NOT continue it. |
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2012-10-22, 19:56 | Link #96 |
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Look, I HAVE read the manga, and the NA version left me a little mixed, let's not talk about the characterization of the characters. On the other hand, I have thoroughly enjoyed the MH version, in despite of its flaws, and because the pacing is better to me. There is also the fact that some of my favorite seiyuus, namely Sawashiro and Fujiwara, are in this one.
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2012-10-23, 10:13 | Link #97 |
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Also, since people seem to be unaware of what 'facts' we are talking about.
Spoiler for Repetitiveness:
Can you tell me what's happening in this picture? Because I sure can't. I am not dissing the old series. I -LIKE- the old series. But I'm getting kind of tired of people pretending certain flaws don't exist. Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-10-23 at 11:28. Reason: Off-topic bit removed and let's just let it drop. |
2012-10-23, 15:29 | Link #98 | |
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Doing so would make quite clear why one's filler is better than another. |
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2012-10-23, 15:59 | Link #99 |
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Might be better than another. It's still an opinion which may differ from person to person.
Here's a thought, though, why don't you add stuff that seems to be missing. Because Shinobi's comparisons, although in terms of comments not devoid of bias, is pretty extensive and covers most aspects of both series AND the manga and makes it PERFECTLY possible to form your own opinion about them. |
2012-10-23, 18:57 | Link #100 | |
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