Sword Art Online - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Deltaray

Most likely wield system is "free" you have your slots for sword and so on, but you can still wield something, sure it doesn't give you any bonus but it can still do basic damage based on how fast you swing it, as ALO damage formula was.

Attack speed + weapon damage stats + hit location - opponent armor defence = damage.

Originally Posted by Krono

No sword skills exist in ALO, the weapon stat is used for something other than what skills you can use. All sword combat is just swinging a sword around without any system controlled attack patterns.

As such, holding a sword in either hand isn't considered an erroneous configuration, and lacks the penalty SAO had of being unable to use sword skills. In other words, any one can dual wield in ALO, as long as they have the skill and coordination to wield two swords at once. Kirito, having used dual wield in SAO for months, can dual wield as he's had the necessary practice, and unlike in the real world, he can pull off duplicating the pattern of some sword skills in ALO.

But if there is no penalty or any requirement for that... Why did he start with a single sword, then a huge 2 hander? Considering his style, that would have been the default choice for him, but he went on the complete opposite, even after gearing himself appropriately (which only required in game money).
It really looks like they wanted to make a parallel with SAO, by having a "last minute hidden move/tactic" which is... inconsistent in ALO case.

[RRW]

Maybe he dont want many people to know that SAO kirito is currently playing ALO. which may cause more trouble like the admin will notice his SAO skill bug and quickly restarted his skill

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by RRW

Maybe he dont want many people to know that SAO kirito is currently playing ALO. which may cause more trouble like the admin will notice his SAO skill bug and quickly restarted his skill

There is no way people would make such guess, because aside of those who were responsible for the investigation and the actual players, no one knows about the SAO players, otherwise ALO Kirito would have been spotted the moment he shows up, and even Suguha would have exposed him right from the get go.
And since it appears dual wielding has no requirement or penalty, other players most likely tried and/or use that style, so him going dual wielding on the last moment has no weight whatsoever in term of secrecy.

[ZGMF-X10A]

Originally Posted by RRW

Maybe he dont want many people to know that SAO kirito is currently playing ALO. which may cause more trouble like the admin will notice his SAO skill bug and quickly restarted his skill

I find it funny how no one else took the name kirito. People always steal my names, and I have to pick a new name in every mmo.

[ookamigirl]

Nice save Kirito! ^^
Kirito vs General Eugene!
That was a really really nice fight. Impressive!
He sure made an impression on the Salamanders.
Him and Leafa have become pretty inseparable.
Looks like Asuna will save herself before he gets to her LOL

[Oroboro]

Without the sword skills, (32 hit combo!) there probably isn't a huge advantage to dual wielding. Even though Kirito's had a lot of practice, it's probably pretty still a difficult thing to pull off, and the biggest advantage it gets you is just the fact that people aren't used to fighting someone dual wielding. (And using it to cheat Eugene's sword.) So the "surprise" is really the only reason it's effective at all. Had Eugene been a shield user, he probably would've been able to give DW!Kirito a lot more trouble, just like Heathcliff.

Also man, Kirito has absolutely no problem lying his ass off at the drop of a hat.

[RRW]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

There is no way people would make such guess, because aside of those who were responsible for the investigation and the actual players, no one knows about the SAO players, otherwise ALO Kirito would have been spotted the moment he shows up, and even Suguha would have exposed him right from the get go.
And since it appears dual wielding has no requirement or penalty, other players most likely tried and/or use that style, so him going dual wielding on the last moment has no weight whatsoever in term of secrecy.

But it certainly will attract attention. I mean if the story about "A Super Powerful Springan (which treated as weakest group IIRC) That Can Dual Wield Coming Out of Nowhere" spread out. it definitely make admin interested and make some investigation.

heck even if the admin dont know who is SAO Kirito. they will still suspicious how the hell ALO Kirito manage to nearly max all of his skill in 2-3 days. they probably just reset it anyway.

Basically Kirito want to play safe. Beside why would he dual wield when he can kill most of ALO enemy in one slash.

[Klashikari]

If Kazuto wanted to play it safe, he wouldn't even use Kirito character name to begin with. It makes you wonder if he really is trying to hide his identity with that. Frankly, the name itself is already a huge give away that the player has some connection to SAO (either an investigator or a SAO player, or Kirito player himself), so having sword dual wield in there wouldn't make any difference.
Also, since there is no dual wielding skill, and according to other posters above, Dual Wield is NOT a special skill and has no requirement whatsoever, so the dual wielding issue has absolutely no relevancy to SAO kirito at all.

Also, players stopped to question ALO Kirito strength, Leefa included, despite it is abnormal no matter how you look at it. Yet, since they don't even think he is cheating, they have really no suspicion, past "he is a damn powerful player, alright!". The only ones who may have suspicions would be the admins, and that's only because they would realize that "ALO Kirito" stats is way too high for his game time.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

But if there is no penalty or any requirement for that... Why did he start with a single sword, then a huge 2 hander? Considering his style, that would have been the default choice for him, but he went on the complete opposite, even after gearing himself appropriately (which only required in game money).
It really looks like they wanted to make a parallel with SAO, by having a "last minute hidden move/tactic" which is... inconsistent in ALO case.

Kirito just tends to default to single wielding. Remember, while he's very good with 2 swords, he spent far more time in SAO wielding just one sword. His secret got out just under three weeks before they escaped SAO, which isn't much time to adjust to not having to keep it a secret, and use it as a default.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Krono

Kirito just tends to default to single wielding. Remember, while he's very good with 2 swords, he spent far more time in SAO wielding just one sword. His secret got out just under three weeks before they escaped SAO, which isn't much time to adjust to not having to keep it a secret, and use it as a default.

Remember that SAO Kirito was using a single sword because he didn't want to stand out, considering he didn't know how to unlock dual wield, which means that he would use it if it wasn't for that issue. On that point, he keeps using both swords, which speak of itself.

Here, he -bought- his gear, and still have enough money to have high end equipment for an army as far as Sakuya implied with her reaction. Therefore, Kazuto had the opportunity to buy a DW set (heck, he could even buy the same sword twice then), yet he -didn't do that-.
Basically, there was absolutely no plan to have a dual wield set, and that despite there is no requirement for that.

It is a simple contradiction, really: there is no Dual Wield skill in ALO. By definition, it means anyone can do that. Since ALO Kirito could pull that just like that (and he certainly had NO time to test it alone, unlike in SAO), it means there is no special requirement for that, except perhaps a certain amount of stats.
Due to how Kazuto went for Leefa's sword, it simply means he knew it was feasible from the get go, confirming Dual Wield is a common and possible setup for anyone. Yet, despite having the resource and possibility to go DW right from the get go, he -didn't-.

[Rising Dragon]

I imagine he used it as a default for most of the time he had the Dual Wield skill, actually, because most of the time he was alone and therefore had no need to hide it--and even then apparently a couple trusted people knew about it beforehand, including Lizbeth.

[Oroboro]

Think of it this way. Without sword skills, Dual Wielding isn't better, it's just different. The same as choosing to wield an axe or a sword or a mace. It otherwise offers the exact same benefits as dual wielding in real life. Which is to say, very little for a lot of effort.

Dual wielding gave Kirito the edge because Eugene wasn't expecting it and didn't have time to figure out how to defend against it. Had Kirito been dual wielding from the start, Eugene would've probably been able to adjust his fighting style accordingly.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Oroboro

Think of it this way. Without sword skills, Dual Wielding isn't better, it's just different.

This is why I was wondering if there wasn't any penalty due to the lack of requirement, as the absence of requirement means it is on the same level as the other style, which means the damage should be changed so it doesn't outperform.

Dual wielding gave Kirito the edge because Eugene wasn't expecting it and didn't have time to figure out how to defend against it. Had Kirito been dual wielding from the start, Eugene would've probably been able to adjust his fighting style accordingly.

The way how Eugene acted after being blasted once doesn't really indicate so. Clearly he wasn't expecting Kirito's initial block, but that's far as it goes. There is not really anything that would make Eugene faring better from the get go if Kirito had two swords to begin with, unless he had a shield hidden somewhere.

I guess they missed the chance to pull some narration, similar to what happened with SAO Kirito resorting to DW the first time, at least the fact he resorted to dual wielding there make a little more sense, strategic wise, but what I commented was the very reason why he didn't opt to this from the beginning in ALO, despite the lack of requirement (and that means: there is no apperent issue with it).

[Znail]

Dual wiedlig would also be specifically good against someone using a two handed sword as it's difficult to use a slower weapon to parry attacks from multiple directions. But I agree that Kirito should have gotten himself a second sword while he was at it and I guess it just slipped his mind that dual wielding would be better here as well.

[Oroboro]

I think Eugene would've fared better. (But probably still not have won. )

Glancing at the episode again, it seems as if, just like the illusion from the last episode, the most important thing it did was grant him an opening which allowed him to unbalance and quickly overwhelm.

I do have to wonder now why he didn't buy a backup weapon anyway, even if he wasn't planning on using it most of the time. Or maybe he did, and wanted Lyfa's sword because it was better? /shrug

[RRW]

Kazuto doesn't know that his SAO skill will carry over when he created his character. Of course when he realize it, he doesn't want admin come and reset his stat. so he want to be low profile as possible and avoid flashy stuff to avoid attention (even thought he already done couple of flashy stuff till this point ).

anyway back to original argument. Kirito probably not bothered to use Dual wield since he can defeat his enemy with one sword until Eugene where he use his last resort (Dual wield).

if Kirito don't have his SAO skill he probably use dual wield from start

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by RRW

anyway back to original argument. Kirito probably not bothered to use Dual wield since he can defeat his enemy with one sword until Eugene where he use his last resort (Dual wield).

And that's the problem: Kazuto was shown in SAO and ALO as someone who -bothers- even with the single trivial thing, as a hardcore gamer. If he didn't bother, he wouldn't even buy a different armor set and weapon, as he could exterminate high level players with scrubby gear. He did optimize himself with what he could get (so high end equipment with his money, instead of treasure hunting), which makes you wonder why the backup weapon idea wasn't there to begin with.

if Kirito don't have his SAO skill he probably use dual wield from start

It isn't a if: he simply doesn't have them. When he checked his character, only his stats are reflecting SAO Kirito. However, skills and items were garbled, so it means they simply don't exist, which include dual wielding.
As such, it is a regular playstyle, not a "special ability that allows one to use 2 weapons at once".

[Polarpew]

What a fantastic fight scene, gosh that was a treat.

[mod edit: remove allusion to future content]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And that's the problem: Kazuto was shown in SAO and ALO as someone who -bothers- even with the single trivial thing, as a hardcore gamer. If he didn't bother, he wouldn't even buy a different armor set and weapon, as he could exterminate high level players with scrubby gear. He did optimize himself with what he could get (so high end equipment with his money, instead of treasure hunting), which makes you wonder why the backup weapon idea wasn't there to begin with.
It isn't a if: he simply doesn't have them. When he checked his character, only his stats are reflecting SAO Kirito. However, skills and items were garbled, so it means they simply don't exist, which include dual wielding.
As such, it is a regular playstyle, not a "special ability that allows one to use 2 weapons at once".

He only used dual wield because the bonus skill effect of gram doesn't activate after reverting back into corporeal for a brief delay, hence the second sword can perform a block/ parry. Kirito didn't really focus on stats or gear in ALF because he was too tunnel on saving Asuna and given his deadline, no time for getting real gear, only highest he can find in npc vendors.

[Dark Wing]

Isn't it possible that Kirito didn't think he needed to duel wield in this game?

Also I thought when he registered to ALO the user name he pick was just a different spelling of Kirito using different characters?

[RRW]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And that's the problem: Kazuto was shown in SAO and ALO as someone who -bothers- even with the single trivial thing, as a hardcore gamer. If he didn't bother, he wouldn't even buy a different armor set and weapon, as he could exterminate high level players with scrubby gear. He did optimize himself with what he could get (so high end equipment with his money, instead of treasure hunting), which makes you wonder why the backup weapon idea wasn't there to begin with.

But you can see that ALO kirito is not as bothered as SAO kirito. he clearly more easy going in ALO than in SAO. hence why he is not as serious compare to SAO ver

he probably think like.

*Start ALO and get SAO skill transferred*

"Hehehe, now i have almost max skill and reliable navigator. i probably can clean this game without using dual wield since apparently this game is easier than SAO (since there is no permanent death and such)"

*Fight Eugene*

"Oh wait, I DO need my Dual wield skill here"