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Old 2012-11-22, 05:43   Link #41
Dengar
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Not to mention it's pretty difficult for us, the readers, to figure out which rules science can and can't break.

For example, can Smiles replicate existing fruit effects?
Can Smiles replicate effects of other Smiles?

Because we know for normal devil fruits, only one instance of an ability can exist in the world at any one time.


You know it suddenly occurred to me. We have NEVER seen a tree that grows Devil Fruit have we?
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Old 2012-11-22, 09:25   Link #42
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I honestly don't think Kaidou is the one with the Devil Fruit army. There are a few clues behind this. When Law went to convince Luffy of his plan, Luffy agreed as soon as he heard what Youkou he would be targeting. One can assume this is Big Mam, as he already has animosity with them

Secondly, Nami was there when the discussion took place. She didn't vocalize any objections; if luffy was planning to take on another Yonkou, she'd be off her head

Thirdly is the mysterious form of Pekoms. Perhaps artificial devil fruits have different properties than actual devil fruits, maybe they can coexist with two devil fruits. Hence why pekoms looked like a Lion (artifical devil fruit) as well as having turtle abilities (actual devil fruit). But thats just speculation. I think Kaidou's plot point will be behind the Mermaid Princess more than anything.
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Old 2012-11-22, 11:39   Link #43
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Thirdly is the mysterious form of Pekoms. Perhaps artificial devil fruits have different properties than actual devil fruits, maybe they can coexist with two devil fruits. Hence why pekoms looked like a Lion (artifical devil fruit) as well as having turtle abilities (actual devil fruit). But thats just speculation.

I dunno, Pekoms strikes me as being sort of like Bepo.... an actual talking furry whose appearance is actually unrelated to a fruit. I mean, we never had any prior indication that Bepo is/was human, and the fact that he showed interest in female bears rather than human women further leads me to believe that he's just a talking bear (unless he's a man with some bizarre bear fetish or something ).


But like I said in my last post, the main reason I don't suspect Charlotte is because she seems more interested in candy than creating a powerful beast army. But I guess I can some of her officers being interested in consolidating the crew's power with such forces, as long as they're able to keep Big Mama happy with their endless supplies of sweet, sweet candy.....
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Old 2012-11-22, 13:43   Link #44
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After reading many of the posts here Im starting to change my mind about Kaidou being the zoan army warlord because big mama has been been teased, she;s got beef withe Luffy and also the peakom's paradox but ultimately it would give the straw hats more incentive to take her down besides the struggle of fish-man candy.

In the end I'm not bothered who it is just as long as Luffy gets into a bad ass fight and kicks some ass because thats really all we want right? =)
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Old 2012-11-22, 14:52   Link #45
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There's one reason why Kaidou could have the Zoan army.

If he did, and Luffy ended up challenging him, Luffy would officially have the eyes of every single known villain on him.
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Old 2012-11-22, 16:59   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
What makes you think that Kaidou could be considered a "villain"?
IMHO we know basically nothing about him. He could as well turn out to be an ally.

Considering that Luffy is already hostile with Big Mam and Blackbeard, it wouldn't actually be surprising if he got another friend with the Four Emperors besides Shanks.
Cause Shanks opposed him.
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Old 2012-11-23, 00:09   Link #47
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The fact that Shanks opposed him and that he tried to kill whitebeard.
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Old 2012-11-23, 01:27   Link #48
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Quote:
The fact that Shanks opposed him and that he tried to kill whitebeard.
Not sure that he tried to kill Whitebeard, but he did kill off Moria's entire crew.

Now if that isn't vicious I don't know what is.
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Old 2012-11-23, 03:03   Link #49
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^I can look over that part, I mean hell, Gold Roger did the same thing.
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Old 2012-11-23, 06:33   Link #50
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We don't need another Yonkou as SH ally.

They already have tons of both ex and present Shichibukai, An ex-admiral, high members of revolutionaries, multiple kingdoms, one Yonkou, former Whitebeard pirates, all as friends or potential allies.

We need good quality villains, and Kaidou being yet another ally would be very anti-climactic.

I can see being good terms with Big Mam AFTER massive conflict and eventual defeat though.
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Old 2012-11-23, 07:07   Link #51
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^Personally, I still expect Shanks and Luffy to fight one day. They are certainly allies of sorts, but I have also always seen them as rivals of sorts as well (more so on Luffy's end).

That being said, I vastly prefer Kaidou as a villian as well. He has cast such a sinister presence over the series, it's hard to imagine him as an ally.
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Old 2012-11-23, 10:51   Link #52
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I dunno, Pekoms strikes me as being sort of like Bepo.... an actual talking furry whose appearance is actually unrelated to a fruit. I mean, we never had any prior indication that Bepo is/was human, and the fact that he showed interest in female bears rather than human women further leads me to believe that he's just a talking bear (unless he's a man with some bizarre bear fetish or something ).


But like I said in my last post, the main reason I don't suspect Charlotte is because she seems more interested in candy than creating a powerful beast army. But I guess I can some of her officers being interested in consolidating the crew's power with such forces, as long as they're able to keep Big Mama happy with their endless supplies of sweet, sweet candy.....
Also as you pointed out,the smiles already existed before the skip(before BB became an emperor),so whatever BB's relation to the smiles right now,he is not the one who raised the army.

I'm with you on Big Mom not being the one too,she cares for candy more than anything else,really doubt she's the one in charge of the army.
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Old 2012-11-23, 11:33   Link #53
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I do not think a fight between Luffy and Shanks is unthinkable. But it would be a fight between rivals, rather than between enemies.
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Old 2012-11-23, 12:17   Link #54
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Boy, the Smile revelation is gonna make things a LOT more interesting, IMO. Just imagine if Smile users even have an Awakened form (which, BTW, I'm also hoping that Momo will have)? It really does just go to show the types of crazy forces who control the New World.....



Also, about the ministory: Apparently, the island Caribou washed up on was the same winter island that we saw Drake at before the skip. So it looks like our muddy friend is in Kaidou's territory now.....


Edit: Holy crap, it looks like Oda actually foreshadowed the Smile's appearance before the skip:


Spoiler:
They showed the smile before that... When the strawhats were in Mocktown. Bellamy worked for Doflamingo.
Spoiler:


Spoiler:

Last edited by mareiyo; 2012-11-23 at 12:36. Reason: photo updage
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Old 2012-11-23, 14:45   Link #55
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You realize that one is merely Doflamingos banner, while the "smile" everyone talks about are artificially created DF, which are totally *not* foreshadowed in the pages you pasted there
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Old 2012-11-23, 16:57   Link #56
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Yeah, "Smile" in this case refers to the synthetic fruits that CC is producing, not Dofla's jolly roger. Not that I doubt there's a connection between them, but I was specifically talking about the fruits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Personally, I still expect Shanks and Luffy to fight one day. They are certainly allies of sorts, but I have also always seen them as rivals of sorts as well (more so on Luffy's end).


I dunno.... to be honest, I sort of doubt that Luffy will ever have a proper reunion with Shanks. Mainly because I have a strong feeling that Blackbeard will kill him before (or by the time) that Luffy reaches him. It's kinda like how a few years back many people figured that Luffy would eventually fight Ace and Whitebeard before the events leading up to Marineford surfaced.....
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Old 2012-11-24, 08:10   Link #57
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I don't see Shanks fighting with Luffy, That would be ridiculous if it happened.
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Old 2012-11-24, 10:28   Link #58
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I would be surprised if Luffy fights Donflamingo before going after a Yonkou, unless he is in the way of getting to the Yonkou.

Little rant. Donflamingo thinks long term. Suspect he has other plans as well beyond the artificial fruits. He profits from war and will continue to put himself in a position to be a broker. In fact he has ordered the destruction of the SAD production room, LAW to be killed and for CC and Monet to return. I think Law's plan is to take down the Yonkou that depends on a Zoan army by devising a way to negate the artificial DF. Not sure on who the Yonkou is, but its probably Big Mom. Shanks: has own power and doesn't seem like the kind of leader that would have this type of army, BlackBeard: has own way to get DF fruits and is looking for powerful ones not just zoans, Kaidou: too early to introduce yet another yonkou imho. This gives Luffy and Law the means to attack Big Mom. They will probably team up with Kid, Apoo and Hawkins. Whose help they will need since I think Donflamingo will step in to help the Yonkou whose devil fruit army with be negated, in order to protect his reputation. (if not he has some other weapons which are better?), heck Crocodile might even come into the mix and replace Donflamingo if one of Kid, Apoo or Hawkins don't want it. If the supernovas don't come together they may take out two Yonkous and really bring in the new age, Kid and Luffy become Yonkous?

Rant over
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Old 2012-11-24, 12:02   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
I don't see Shanks fighting with Luffy, That would be ridiculous if it happened.
I wouldn't say Shanks vs. Luffy would be ridiculous. Depending on the circumstances, even people on really good terms could potentially fight over something. We also don't know anything about Shanks' true motives. Depending on what they are, there may be a possibility that they somehow conflict with Luffy's aspirations/beliefs. If you want a perfect example of this, look at Luffy vs. Ussop. Case-in-point, you never know what may come up in the future that creates opposition between people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
I think Law's plan is to take down the Yonkou that depends on a Zoan army by devising a way to negate the artificial DF. Not sure on who the Yonkou is, but its probably Big Mom. Shanks: has own power and doesn't seem like the kind of leader that would have this type of army, BlackBeard: has own way to get DF fruits and is looking for powerful ones not just zoans, Kaidou: too early to introduce yet another yonkou imho. This gives Luffy and Law the means to attack Big Mom. They will probably team up with Kid, Apoo and Hawkins. Whose help they will need since I think Donflamingo will step in to help the Yonkou whose devil fruit army with be negated, in order to protect his reputation. (if not he has some other weapons which are better?)

Rant over
I think we can rule out Shanks and Blackbeard (partially for the reasons you provided), so that leaves Big Mom and Kaido. For Big Mom, sweets seem to take priority over everything else. Manpower doesn't seem to be an interest for her (at least from what we know so far). It's true that next to nothing is known about Kaido, but from the little we've gathered about him, he seems to be quite the opportunist and negotiable. He tried to intercept Whitebeard from going to Marineford, which I highly doubt was for good intentions. Whitebeard was most likely vulnerable and Kaido tried to take advantage of that which resulted in Shanks' intervention. It's also clear that Shanks and Kaido didn't get into a fight because the former arrived at Marineford completely unscathed (you don't fight an emperor without suffering any serious injuries). That means that Shanks somehow managed to negotiate something with Kaido.

With all that being said, I have a strong suspicion Kaido is the one doing business with Doflamingo.
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Old 2012-11-24, 12:29   Link #60
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I think we can rule out Shanks and Blackbeard (partially for the reasons you provided), so that leaves Big Mom and Kaido. For Big Mom, sweets seem to take priority over everything else. Manpower doesn't seem to be an interest for her (at least from what we know so far). It's true that next to nothing is known about Kaido, but from the little we've gathered about him, he seems to be quite the opportunist and negotiable. He tried to intercept Whitebeard from going to Marineford, which I highly doubt was for good intentions. Whitebeard was most likely vulnerable and Kaido tried to take advantage of that which resulted in Shanks' intervention. It's also clear that Shanks and Kaido didn't get into a fight because the former arrived at Marineford completely unscathed (you don't fight an emperor without suffering any serious injuries). That means that Shanks somehow managed to negotiate something with Kaido.

With all that being said, I have a strong suspicion Kaido is the one doing business with Doflamingo.
Kaidou was reported to have wanted to stop Whitebeard. His intentions are unclear. Whitebeard was certainly not weak, he was heading to take on marineford! Suspect Kaidou didn't want there to be a change of Yonkou with the possibility that Whitebeard might lose. Remember Shanks actually was trying to disuade Whitebeard from allowing Ace to continue on his revenge, knowing BlackBeard was aiming for the top. Change means uncertainty. The Yonkous act to prolong the coming of the new age. Kaidou is shown to have acted later.

That being said, it is true that Kaidou and Shanks likely didn't fight. Negotiating, maybe, if so what?

Kaidou seems like the scientist type, maybe even a disciple of vegapunk gone rogue. Given that, using science to better his army is possible.

Big Mom and Kaidou are likely the first two Yonkous to fall. What is the order and by who. I doubt, Luffy takes them both out.
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