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Old 2012-11-24, 15:09   Link #61
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
Kaidou was reported to have wanted to stop Whitebeard. His intentions are unclear. Whitebeard was certainly not weak, he was heading to take on marineford! Suspect Kaidou didn't want there to be a change of Yonkou with the possibility that Whitebeard might lose. Remember Shanks actually was trying to disuade Whitebeard from allowing Ace to continue on his revenge, knowing BlackBeard was aiming for the top. Change means uncertainty. The Yonkous act to prolong the coming of the new age. Kaidou is shown to have acted later.

That being said, it is true that Kaidou and Shanks likely didn't fight. Negotiating, maybe, if so what?

Kaidou seems like the scientist type, maybe even a disciple of vegapunk gone rogue. Given that, using science to better his army is possible.
If Kaido didn't have hostile intentions, why would Shanks bother intercepting him? Shanks came to Marineford to stop the war, but he was already too late. The damage had been done. Most likely, Shanks was trying to prevent the "rampaging era" that would ensue upon the aftermath of the war (he foresaw that there would be dire consequences for the world).

So if we go with your reasoning of why Kaido tried to stop Whitebeard, then that means Shanks intercepted Kaido only to tell him that it would be useless to try to dissuade Whitebeard, hence the reason why there was no fight between them (Shanks arriving at Marineford unscathed attests to this). But if Kaido was really concerned about preserving stability and order, why wouldn't he accompany Shanks to Marineford to try to stop the war as well? Perhaps he didn't want to risk any casualties/fatalities on his side? That sounds very unlikely seeing as how Shanks was willing to use force to end things. And surely 3 emperors uniting would be too much for the marines to handle, so it couldn't be that Kaido was afraid of losing anything.
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Old 2012-11-24, 15:13   Link #62
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
IIRC he didn't try to kill whitebeard, but instead he tried to stop him from going to MF. It was actually correct to try and stop whitebeard, since he wouldn't have died and the balance of power wouldn't have been shaken, if he didn't go for Ace.

To me it looks like Kaido did the right thing. And since we don't know what motives he had for his doing, he could turn out as a villain as well as an ally. So IMHO we still have no idea what kind of position he will take regarding the Straw-Hats.
Shanks stopped Kaidou from going to Marineford.
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Old 2012-11-24, 18:56   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
If Kaido didn't have hostile intentions, why would Shanks bother intercepting him? Shanks came to Marineford to stop the war, but he was already too late. The damage had been done. Most likely, Shanks was trying to prevent the "rampaging era" that would ensue upon the aftermath of the war (he foresaw that there would be dire consequences for the world).

So if we go with your reasoning of why Kaido tried to stop Whitebeard, then that means Shanks intercepted Kaido only to tell him that it would be useless to try to dissuade Whitebeard, hence the reason why there was no fight between them (Shanks arriving at Marineford unscathed attests to this). But if Kaido was really concerned about preserving stability and order, why wouldn't he accompany Shanks to Marineford to try to stop the war as well? Perhaps he didn't want to risk any casualties/fatalities on his side? That sounds very unlikely seeing as how Shanks was willing to use force to end things. And surely 3 emperors uniting would be too much for the marines to handle, so it couldn't be that Kaido was afraid of losing anything.
I think it was too late for Kaidou and that Whitebeard had already made up his mind. Shanks was trying to avoid involving yet another Yonkou. Battles between Yonkous are probably avoided as much as possible because of the consequences. Similar to between marine admirals. Had Kaidou fought Whitebeard that would mean two weakened Yonkous with another (blackbeard) on his way. Its a guess.. Kaidou accompanying Shanks would mean 3 Yonkous involved. And who knows if they would all fight for the same thing anyways, Kaidou could have easily gone for Whitebeards head during the war..

Oh and even if Kaidou didn't have hostile intentions, that wouldn't matter. He was going to oppose Whitebeards will. That means war.

Last edited by golgo13; 2012-11-24 at 18:58. Reason: another thing
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Old 2012-11-24, 22:07   Link #64
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With all that being said, I have a strong suspicion Kaido is the one doing business with Doflamingo.
It seems odd to introduce yet another Yonkou into the mix, before we've even gotten through a single one (not to mention Doffy).

Big Mom's crew seems to be the strangest out of the 4 crews.. Smiles could explain why this is. Last but not least, all four Yonkou want power. In fact, everyone wants power to a certain extent, Whitebeard to protect his family, Kaidou for unknown reasons, Big Mom for self gratification (she seems to be addicted to sweets), Luffy for absolute freedom. It would not surprise me if the Yonkou in question was Big Mom, and the Smiles plotline could be a way of tying her in with Doffy's arc.
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Old 2012-11-25, 10:29   Link #65
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
I think it was too late for Kaidou and that Whitebeard had already made up his mind. Shanks was trying to avoid involving yet another Yonkou. Had Kaidou fought Whitebeard that would mean two weakened Yonkous with another (blackbeard) on his way. Its a guess.. Kaidou accompanying Shanks would mean 3 Yonkous involved. And who knows if they would all fight for the same thing anyways, Kaidou could have easily gone for Whitebeards head during the war..

Oh and even if Kaidou didn't have hostile intentions, that wouldn't matter. He was going to oppose Whitebeards will. That means war.
Whitebeard was unrelenting in his resolve, so it was too late for anyone to stop him. Kaido and Whitebeard weakening each other prior to the war most definitely could have been problematic, so that could explain why Shanks intervened.

Another thing to note is that Kaido has quite the fearsome wrath (according to one of his subordinates). With Whitebeard refusing to listen to whatever Kaido has to say, that would probably piss him off to the point where an actual battle would ensue. Shanks, with his good foresight, may have foreseen this, hence the reason why he stepped in.

All we could do at this time is speculate on what exactly happened between these 3 emperors. But my gut instinct tells me Kaido isn't a good person. Of course, I could very well be wrong. But like a few others have already mentioned, I would find it rather anti-climactic if Kaido doesn't turn out to be a villain.

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It seems odd to introduce yet another Yonkou into the mix, before we've even gotten through a single one (not to mention Doffy).
Mihawk and Jimbei (just his name, affiliation, and status) were introduced before we even got to see Crocodile. Kuma and Doflamingo were introduced before we even got to see Moria. I don't see how this scenario is any different.
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Old 2012-11-25, 12:51   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
All we could do at this time is speculate on what exactly happened between these 3 emperors. But my gut instinct tells me Kaido isn't a good person. Of course, I could very well be wrong. But like a few others have already mentioned, I would find it rather anti-climactic if Kaido doesn't turn out to be a villain.
Ya Kaidou is likely a villain. It as been hinted he not one to cross and he did destroy Moriahs dream of becoming Pirate King.
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Old 2012-11-25, 14:44   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
All we could do at this time is speculate on what exactly happened between these 3 emperors. But my gut instinct tells me Kaido isn't a good person. Of course, I could very well be wrong. But like a few others have already mentioned, I would find it rather anti-climactic if Kaido doesn't turn out to be a villain.
Kaidou could very well be evil but somebody like X Drake joined him. An ex-marine like him would never join forces with somebody evil unless he wanted to work with Kaidou for a different reason.
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Old 2012-11-25, 16:47   Link #68
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Kaidou could very well be evil but somebody like X Drake joined him. An ex-marine like him would never join forces with somebody evil unless he wanted to work with Kaidou for a different reason.

Uh.... aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? The very fact that Drake IS an ex-marine makes his motives for joining Kaidou suspect in the first place. Like, what even drove him to become a pirate at all? Sure, his reasons could be similar to that of former admiral Z (disgusted with the WG's acceptance of famous pirates in their ranks), but that would pretty much be a rehash of Z's story right there. How do we know for sure that he DIDN'T just choose to go over to the "dark side" on his own volition.....?
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Old 2012-11-25, 17:44   Link #69
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Uh.... aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? The very fact that Drake IS an ex-marine makes his motives for joining Kaidou suspect in the first place. Like, what even drove him to become a pirate at all? Sure, his reasons could be similar to that of former admiral Z (disgusted with the WG's acceptance of famous pirates in their ranks), but that would pretty much be a rehash of Z's story right there. How do we know for sure that he DIDN'T just choose to go over to the "dark side" on his own volition.....?
Probably left because he didn't like how the Marines/WG is working so he left. Him getting kicked out is a possibility but he isn't a problem child. A traumatic event similar to what Z been through is wha could have made him leave. Those are some scenarios as to why I think he left. He probably knew about Kaidou before before (Intel from Marines) and how he works so he felt that being with a Yonkou would benefit him the most. He ended up on Kaidous favorite Island somehow. Maybe it was fate or he knew about it before hand and he didn't tell him crew about the surprise .
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Old 2012-11-25, 18:02   Link #70
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Probably left because he didn't like how the Marines/WG is working so he left. Him getting kicked out is a possibility but he isn't a problem child. A traumatic event similar to what Z been through is wha could have made him leave. Those are some scenarios as to why I think he left. He probably knew about Kaidou before before (Intel from Marines) and how he works so he felt that being with a Yonkou would benefit him the most. He ended up on Kaidous favorite Island somehow. Maybe it was fate or he knew about it before hand and he didn't tell him crew about the surprise .
Drake going after Kaidou specifically can mean a lot of things. I never thought of Drake actually joining Kaidou, thought he was after him for something and a possible marine connection. It would throw water at the idea that Kaidou is a villainous character.
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Old 2012-11-25, 19:26   Link #71
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Ya Kaidou is likely a villain. It as been hinted he not one to cross and he did destroy Moriahs dream of becoming Pirate King.
I agree that he will be a villain, I just don't think he is the one purchasing Smiles off Doffy.

Quote:
Mihawk and Jimbei (just his name, affiliation, and status) were introduced before we even got to see Crocodile. Kuma and Doflamingo were introduced before we even got to see Moria. I don't see how this scenario is any different.
Kaidou has already been introduced. We know his name, status and affiliation, do we not?

The difference here is that whilst some of the Shichibukai were indeed introduced before others, here, it is not a mere introduction. The fact that Doflamingo is a supplier to a yonkou means that if Luffy antagonizes him, he will be indirectly making a move against the Yonkou as well. He has already declared war on Big Mom; as Marvel and others have pointed out, the Strawhats are likely not strong enough to take down her whole crew by themselves. They will at the very least require the aid of Jinbei and Law, and maybe Kidd, Hawkins et al. Having Luffy face yet another Yonkou at the very same time would be overkill and over the top.

It makes sense for the Yonkou in question to be Big Mom, simply because she was introduced as an antagonist just 20 chapters ago. The Smiles plotline can tie Doflamingo in with her war against Luffy.
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Old 2012-11-25, 21:08   Link #72
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Having Luffy face yet another Yonkou at the very same time would be overkill and over the top.
Luffy may not necessarily run into Kaido in the near future. Their encounter may be reserved for well after he's already had his altercations with Doffy and Big Mom. I don't deny that the arguments for Big Mom being the one do have merit seeing as how the situation coincides nicely with the supernova alliance and Luffy's declaration of war against her (hence the reason why she's my second-most likely choice).

Just out of curiosity, which emperor do you see being the second-most likely choice?
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Old 2012-11-25, 21:58   Link #73
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Probably Kaidou as well.

There is speculation on the web that Doflamingo's artificial devil fruits could be a way of controlling the minds of the people who have eaten it. This would fit Doffy's puppeteer theme and power of controlling people's actions as well as his ambitious personality and underhanded way of doing things. Taking over a Yonkou's territory by controlling his own zoan army would change the world.. maybe that is what Doflamingo meant when he said that he would usher in a new age, the age of Smiles. Perhaps Doflamingo is doing this in cooperation with the World Government, as I see Akainu being far more pro-active in the fight against piracy then Sengoku was.

That is another reason why I can not see Kaidou being the one targeted by Doflamingo and the World Government. We have seen too little of him, and he is too big of a character to be eliminated off screen.

We have already seen Luffy interact with Big Mom and we know he will fight against her in the future. Doflamingo's plan may initiate just as this is happening.

Of course this is just another possibility, but everything seems to point at Big Mom being the Yonkou in question.
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Old 2012-11-25, 22:59   Link #74
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Probably Kaidou as well.

There is speculation on the web that Doflamingo's artificial devil fruits could be a way of controlling the minds of the people who have eaten it. This would fit Doffy's puppeteer theme and power of controlling people's actions as well as his ambitious personality and underhanded way of doing things. Taking over a Yonkou's territory by controlling his own zoan army would change the world.. maybe that is what Doflamingo meant when he said that he would usher in a new age, the age of Smiles. Perhaps Doflamingo is doing this in cooperation with the World Government, as I see Akainu being far more pro-active in the fight against piracy then Sengoku was.

That is another reason why I can not see Kaidou being the one targeted by Doflamingo and the World Government. We have seen too little of him, and he is too big of a character to be eliminated off screen.

We have already seen Luffy interact with Big Mom and we know he will fight against her in the future. Doflamingo's plan may initiate just as this is happening.

Of course this is just another possibility, but everything seems to point at Big Mom being the Yonkou in question.
Seeing as how sinister Akainu and Doflamingo are, I can definitely see them working together to take down one of the emperors. And if Doflamingo really can control the minds of those that have eaten the artificial DFs, he can indirectly eliminate that emperor (he wouldn't have to get himself directly involved in a fight). Seems to be the most efficient way of dealing with a major threat. Akainu also wouldn't have to expend any of the marines' resources in such a scenario either, so it's a win-win situation for both of them.

And like Aohige said before, I can see Big Mom eventually becoming an ally of Luffy after the two of them go through some serious altercations. Doubt she'll be nothing more than a one-time enemy for the strawhats to overcome.
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Old 2012-11-26, 11:28   Link #75
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Either way, the overarching plot of One Piece seldom goes in a predictable manner. So while it seems more likely (in my eyes) for Big Mom to be the one, we can't entirely rule out Kaidou.
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Old 2012-11-27, 04:47   Link #76
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There is speculation on the web that Doflamingo's artificial devil fruits could be a way of controlling the minds of the people who have eaten it. This would fit Doffy's puppeteer theme and power of controlling people's actions as well as his ambitious personality and underhanded way of doing things. Taking over a Yonkou's territory by controlling his own zoan army would change the world.. maybe that is what Doflamingo meant when he said that he would usher in a new age, the age of Smiles. Perhaps Doflamingo is doing this in cooperation with the World Government, as I see Akainu being far more pro-active in the fight against piracy then Sengoku was.
The whole Doflamingo mind controls all the zoans is a bit far fetched. There are some open questions, what is Donflamingos fruit? why did mononosuke see Donflamingo in a flashback? I do think he has something else up his sleeve, he always seem to.

Crazy idea: big moms crew suggested using zoan army because they taste funny and big mom will not eat them or maybe opposite? hehe.
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Old 2012-11-27, 09:29   Link #77
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The whole Doflamingo mind controls all the zoans is a bit far fetched. There are some open questions, what is Donflamingos fruit? why did mononosuke see Donflamingo in a flashback? I do think he has something else up his sleeve, he always seem to.
Not to mention it's over-powered even for him. For starters, Doflamingo has only shown himself to control one person's body at a time. What, exactly, about the properties of an artificial zoan fruit would allow him to control someone's mind as well? So it's obvious that there are limits to his haxness. It also seems like those with exceptional strength cannot be fully controlled like a puppet. In the war, Doflamingo only managed to stop Jozu in his tracks from hitting Crocodile. And unlike Doffy's previous victims, Jozu kept his composure and looked like he didn't really give a shit. That being said, there definitely are ways to circumvent or at least mitigate the effects of Doflamingo's fruit.
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Old 2012-11-27, 11:59   Link #78
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BTW, was it even said, that Doflamingo is a fruits user? If so, when?
Maybe his power is just something different.
It isn't explicitly stated what his powers are. Only that he seems to be able to control people and cut off a leg by moving his fingers.

I'd be surprised if Oda does a "pappug can talk because he thought he was human when young" type move with Donflamingo's powers and comes up with some different explanation. Likely he is a paramecia user with string-string or wire-wire. We may find out sooner than later!
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Old 2012-11-27, 12:17   Link #79
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I think it's a pupeteer fruit, Would fit his persona.
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Old 2012-11-27, 12:31   Link #80
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BTW, was it even said, that Doflamingo is a fruits user? If so, when?
Maybe his power is just something different.
Do you need everything spelled out for you to draw conclusions from the manga?
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