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Link #31281 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Well on the subject of Shkanon clues I did go back and look through EP1 (skimm'd it mostly) and I did find a couple of interesting things that could hint towards Shkanon.
The first one is what was stated before the part where Kanon talks to himself and says "Even I." Alone that statement doesn't seem very significant but for some reason the Manga actually makes a huge deal out of that. If you read it as Shkanon this scene might suggest the Beatrice persona having feels for Battler still. The second notable scene is when Battler interrogates Kanon, Genji and Kumasawa. This scene is really weird in itself because the three do a complete 180 and Genji is really out of character. The VN didn't say how much of the conversation Battler heard but the Manga suggest that he heard all of it. Most of what Battler hears is about Kanon complaining that Shannon died. However as soon as Battler enters the three get taken completely off guard and Kanon refuses to look Battler in the eye. Then Kumasawa and Genji start talking for him and then both go all freaky like which is rather out of character for them all. (Maybe not Kumasawa). Now if we were to assume Kanon was the culprit then this scene doesn't make much sense. Why would Kanon be talking in private about how he hates how Beatrice killed Shannon if Kanon is the culprit? This scene however could be suggesting Kanon does have multiple personalities. As far as making Kanon the culprit of that gameboard. Lambdadelta at the end of EP4 suggests that Beatrice disproved that someone was hiding under the bed. True there are ways to work around the red but Lambda knows the solution and was pretty convinced that Battler's theory was disproven. So the only other way I see that locked room being done is with Kanon. It makes no sense for Lambda to be lying there. In short, EP1 seems to suggest that Kanon has multiple personalities. Also Shannon does say something kinda interesting when they are on the beach. She says that a young servant told her about scorpions repelling magic. Yasu anyone? |
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Link #31282 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Link #31283 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Link #31285 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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#1: Ignoring the other heart The gameboards represent about half of the time spent on the Question Arcs. If it's ignoring the heart to skim over the meta scenes, isn't it also ignoring the heart to say there are no clues in the mystery scenes? After all, Yasu apparently enjoyed writing mysteries even more than she enjoyed the purely magic side she shared with Maria. Meta-scenes are definitely necessary, but can they really be our only clues to the answer? #2: What Beatrice is As I understand it, Beatrice represents the rule saying "the most plausible explanation presented wins". The witch theory "wins" only when people accept it, and they'd only accept magic if no other complete theory can (or will) be presented. For the meta-world, this is trivial, but on the gameboard, it's a pretty important point. Since the human Yasu can't actually jump out in front of everyone and do magic, she has to "present" her explanation of what Beatrice is indirectly. She can only control Beatrice by leaving clues pointing to parts of Beatrice's personality and powers. The point here is that accidents or the actions of entirely unrelated people can change "Beatrice's" personality. More importantly, since meta-Beatrice is obligated to show meta-Battler an explanation for everything with herself as the culprit, she also has to pretend everything that happens is according to her plan, or else the plan of someone with the power to oppose a witch. So we have to be very wary of what we learn about Beatrice in meta scenes.
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Link #31287 | |
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Since she claims to actually be the killer herself, she needs her personality to match what we know about that killer. Therefore, the events on the gameboard necessarily influence her behavior.
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Link #31289 | |
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How Beatrice decides to commit the crimes changes drastically in each episode. However, it's part of her character to do things on a whim, just for the hell of it. So that alone doesn't qualify as a plot hole as long as she can think of a plausible excuse.
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Link #31291 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Obviously Beatrice has many motives beyond just playing the role of the culprit, but acting the part of the culprit is clearly one thing she does throughout most of the question arcs.
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Link #31293 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Say is the manga canon?
I know its been done more than enough but from what I can tell it certainly has quite the amount of things leading to Rosa. Examples: The letters Nanjos son, Sabakichi and Ange received being adressed to Hokkaido which is where Rosa was with "her boyfriend" (Sent at the 3rd, received after incident) or Evatrice mentioning Rosas past intentions of becoming a witch and believing in the forest witch and wishing to fly around like a butterfly as well as her relation to spider webs and having said herself she tried to solve the riddle in the past. And she trapped butterflied in webs while the people on the Island were once referred as butterflies. Just feeling kinda mindf'd now. ![]() Ryukishi is at the very least trying to make it look like Rosa and that REALLY hard as said, above are just examples, there is tons. I don't care if its a Red Herring or Truth, Ryukishi is putting on massive amounts of Rosatrice things, at least I understand why people believe it so much now. Maria: "Beatrice turns to Butterflies!Uuu-" Evatrice: "Yep, you told me that you wanted to become a Butterfly and flutter around the Garden." "You told me that you wish to become a witch when you were young. "How about dancing in this eternal dream?" Dammit Ryukishi.XD On a different note: Why did all 3 letters have 07151129 notes with them? Last edited by Kiltias; 2012-12-04 at 18:28. |
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Link #31294 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Ryukishi said he would add extra clues in the manga, which is why in EP 8 manga version the game that Ange plays with her relatives is pretty different and filled with clues. However I don't know if he started adding clues right from the first volumes of the manga or in those he gave the manga authors more freedom. If i don't remember wrong in EP 3 there were clues pointing to Kyrie/Kyrie's gun being the one who shoot at Hideyoshi for example. That number was required to access to the bank account. |
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Link #31295 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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I wonder if they changed that line in the PS3 version too? I can definitely imagine Kyrie shooting Hideyoshi better than I can Rudolf, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's something Ryukishi changed his mind on or something. |
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Link #31296 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I would presume the manga is canon, at least in the sense that it's been said that Ryukishi has input over what gets put into it. I don't think they'd just make up new details without consulting him, and if a detail were incongruous with what he intended he'd veto it. Hopefully.
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Link #31297 | ||||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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To make things vaguer, it's also said that Hideyoshi took the gun of one of them but the novel said it could be one of the other. So the gun that was closer to Rudolf could have belonged to Kyrie since the novel took care to say it was unknown which gun Hideyoshi took. At least that's what is said in the fantasy scene as likely the bodies weren't moved after their dead. Due to the vagueness of the novel I like to think the manga is giving us an hint about Hideyoshi being shoot by Kyrie or being betrayed by her (in the magic scene he's shoot in the back). [Ep 3 chap 14] Interesting enought the anime (Ep 16) uses a gun that's far from both. On a sidenote I've always thought that EvaBeatrice represented the alliance between Yasu and Eva so in the mystery side she was nothing else but a Yasu who had sided with Eva which makes rather interesting her argument with MetaBeato as it shows the two Beatos having different goals. MetaBeato wants to be acknowledged by MetaBattler but EvaBeatrice has no such goal, nor care for MetaBattler who, in a discussion, is defined as a person with which EvaBeatrice wasn't supposed to interact (and, interesting enough, it will be Battler who'll 'force her' to interact with him) Quote:
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And we've 2 Beato even in Ep 6 and one of them can't care less about Battler and don't interact with him while the other does. Interesting enough the one we call Beato the elder is however close to the other Beato and apparently seems to have the same goal as her although ChickBeato's motive is that she wants to please Battler by becoming the Beato he wanted her to be while Beato the elder doesn't share this feeling and, although presented as a piece that's from the past, she interacts with the present. If we assume Beato the elder is actually PieceBeato and that Yasu began to write tales in which she figured were written prior to Battler's return and therefore prior to trying to send a message to him she's technically a Beato of the past who originally had a completely different goal than 'making Battler remember' although in the end she also tried to work to help the other Beato to reach her own goal. Yes, young Beato is defined as a piece that Battler 'set on the gameboard' but I wonder if the gameboard involved is the one of the mystery tale or a meta one. Besides MetaBattler too was defined as a piece in the beginning and, although he looks like he wants to challenge Erika, in truth is possible he was using Erika to have Beato remember. In short he was sort of challenging her in a gentler way than the one Beato used with him. To make short a long story I'm still of the opinion that the goal of MetaBeato and PieceBeato aren't exactly matching and that PieceBeato is a piece that MetaBeato is trying to use to reach her own goal. There's also this interesting bit of discussion in Our Confession between Shannon and Beato: Quote:
So, Shannon's goal here seems more to fulfill MetaBeato's will than her own. If she and MetaBeato were the same person it'll look like Yasu is insane but if she's just a character in MetaBeato's story it'll make more sense that she will accept the author's goal as her own. [Although a good writer shoulden't force a goal on a character... however it's possible that the 'forcing' represents that the real Shannon wasn't a killer but that in the story her PieceVersion becomes one to fulfil the author's purpose more than the purpose of the real Shannon. Due to this her actions were 'forced' as they wouldn't fit the real Shannon but they needed to be as such to fit with MetaBeato's purposes] Another sidenote. In Ep 5 Natsuhi said she confessed being the cause of the servant's dead in front of the servant's husband grave few years ago. Although likely Natsuhi didn't mean to be heard it's possible she traveled to where the guy was buried with someone else (for example Shannon) and this person overheard her saying so without her noticing. This would explain why Yasu knows Natsuhi caused the baby to fall a thing Natsuhi apparently didn't tell anyone. Of course another possibility is that, since Ep 5 was written by Battler, it was Toya who found out this. Since it's said that the servant and the baby were rushed to the hospital both apparently still alive the servant might have said something like 'madam pushed me' but the whole thing was hushed by the Ushiromiya's money or whoever picked up the servant's confession didn't dare to report it to the police in fear of the Ushiromiya's power and due to lack of proof and that tattled it out only after the incident, helping to build up a Natsuhi culprit theory in Toya's time. Last edited by jjblue1; 2012-12-05 at 20:29. |
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Link #31298 | |
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The manga also adds the line "Eva did not kill Hideyoshi.", the novel and console version removed the red on the line "the above 15 people are dead" when Evatrice counts Kanon and Shannon seperately. |
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Link #31299 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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It's easy to imagine that, yeah. There's a lot of things that would be clearer to convey in a manga or animated format, but I don't really trust anything from the anime because it was a mess visually. The manga seems to be kept on a considerably tighter leash, so if there's additional hints there they're probably reliable.
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