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Old 2013-01-31, 07:24   Link #81
Mr. Johnny 5
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Well... time for me to step in... it was somewhat expected and yet unexpected aswell.
That is untill the death god showed up... with the sacrifice story i thought Orochimaru would just die using it. But ohwell.... the risks of fighting... the risks of kinjutsu have been greatly modified after Rock Lee was saved by a miracle operation with Tsunade as the doctor.

These Hokages should just both sense and tell the story..(we all wanna hear) then leave to go to the battlefield to help out the others. Because honestly... just even with his eternal MS, Orochimaru gone for a full year or longer... how are they gonna be stronger right now then Naruto, Bee, Obito or Madara?

With the Juubi soon gone... i truly wonder... how strong Sasuke will have to become to get to such a level. To even reach Madara. Also how can someone that epic be controlled by Orochimaru? (Hashirama) But still... glad to see that his soul is finally freed (Minato).
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Old 2013-01-31, 08:39   Link #82
Dengar
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To be fair, Madara is going to be defeated by an army, whereas Sasuke is going to be defeated by just Naruto.
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Old 2013-01-31, 09:56   Link #83
james0246
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
With the Juubi soon gone...
Where is this coming from? The army's intent was never to defeat the Jyuubi; they have no hope of defeating the Jyuubi, it can only be sealed away or split apart. Last chapters attack was purely to separate Madara (and I guess Tobi) from the Jyuubi (whether the Jyuubi goes inert or insane is currently unknown). Now the army will focus on defeating these two opponents, and then they'll focus on the monster that can destroy the planet (and that's only if Madara doesn't still reach his goal of becoming a Jinchuuriki anyway, which honestly seems just as likely as not).

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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
A collaborative effort would mean Naruto has to share his glory...
Did you completely skip Chapter 617?
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Old 2013-01-31, 12:01   Link #84
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Did you completely skip Chapter 617?
I did not. I didn't skip reading our chapter 617 thread either:

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
As it is, this whole powering up others tripe is just symbolic. This chapters massive attack is from Naruto and the Kyuubi. He could have just as easily done the exact same thing with an army of Kyuubi-powered Kage Bushins. Let's not pretend that the army actually matters beyond being the warm bodies that they are.
: /

...When I mentioned “sharing his glory”, I was speaking more generally; and in the sense of the supporting characters being in a competitive league. There still are a few minor exceptions that are very few and far in between in the other sense, but I seriously doubt the final battle will be one of them (in either sense). Though, let's just be honest with ourselves, the tripe you rightfully describe in ch617 is nothing more than more fan-service(well, at least to me). Naruto had to empower an entire army for them to be able to even fight on a truly competitive level. Interestingly enough, you even pointed out that the chapter's attack essentially comes from Naruto and the Kyuubi –they are the ones who truly get the glory here, lets not kid ourselves.
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Old 2013-01-31, 12:18   Link #85
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Originally Posted by b1gdawg View Post
Sarutobi dragged the first and second into the reaper death god with him, along with Oro's arms.
Since Oro's arms and the 1st and 2nds souls aren't still sealed within the 3rds zombie body, the Kyuubi chakra shouldn't be inside the 4th anymore either.

Let's see...
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Old 2013-01-31, 12:21   Link #86
MysticNinjaJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Well... time for me to step in... it was somewhat expected and yet unexpected aswell.
That is untill the death god showed up... with the sacrifice story i thought Orochimaru would just die using it. But ohwell.... the risks of fighting... the risks of kinjutsu have been greatly modified after Rock Lee was saved by a miracle operation with Tsunade as the doctor.

These Hokages should just both sense and tell the story..(we all wanna hear) then leave to go to the battlefield to help out the others. Because honestly... just even with his eternal MS, Orochimaru gone for a full year or longer... how are they gonna be stronger right now then Naruto, Bee, Obito or Madara?

With the Juubi soon gone... i truly wonder... how strong Sasuke will have to become to get to such a level. To even reach Madara. Also how can someone that epic be controlled by Orochimaru? (Hashirama) But still... glad to see that his soul is finally freed (Minato).
I don't think Orochimaru is trustworthy. He could easily betray Sasuke right now.

Orochimaru is back to full power now that he has his arms back. He's the one who summoned the four Hokage. Since he absorbed his cells from Kabuto he probably has all of Kabuto's enhanced abilities in addition to his knowledge. So he's probably a Snake Sage right now. He admitted that he still wants Sasuke's young body. I wouldn't be surprised if Sasuke has a rematch with Orochimaru at full power and has to battle the four Hokage in order to do it.

But it's also likely that after the four Hokage give Sasuke the information they seek that Team Sasuke, along with Orochimaru, head to the battle field and makes things interesting. If the Hokage tell Sasuke everything they know I wonder how that will effect Sasuke. How will the knowledge acquired from Minato that the masked ninja orchestrated the attack by the Kyuubi on Leaf Village (vs. the lie Obito told about the Kyuubi doing it on his own) effect Sasuke? How will learning that Naruto is the son of the 4th Hokage effect Sasuke? The 1st Hokage is the one who defeated the real Uchiha Madara so he should have some interesting info to share as well. The 2nd and 3rd Hokage will have direct information on the persecution of the Uchiha and the order to destroy the entire clan, although I don't know what they could tell Sasuke that Itachi hasn't already told him.

This is a very interesting period in the manga because Kishimoto is about to reveal everything to the audience in order to build up to wards the final battle.

Now matter what Sasuke is told I think that he will enter the final battle as Naruto's enemy. He is his rival so it makes sense for that to happen. Sasuke may not side with Obito and Madara but I doubt he will identify with the Leaf Village any more.

Here's an interesting thought.....

What do you guys think that Sasuke will make of the fact that with the Rinnegan he can bring people fully back from the dead? He wants revenge but he also talked about the revival of his clan. Madara intended for Obito to bring him back from the dead. I think the idea of bringing the entire Uchiha clan back including his parents and Itachi is more intriguing to Sasuke than the Infinite Tsukiyomi plan.
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Old 2013-01-31, 12:25   Link #87
james0246
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Naruto had to empower an entire army for them to be able to even fight on a truly competitive level. Interestingly enough, you even pointed out that the chapter's attack essentially comes from Naruto and the Kyuubi they are the ones who truly get the glory here, lets not kid ourselves.
I don't disagree that it is tripe and silly development (you didn't need to quote me to get me to agree with myself ), but it now officially disputes your point that Naruto can't share the "glory" (ala the earlier encounters with the Zombies that you mentioned). Kishimoto, no matter how contrived, made Naruto share the "glory". Your point is no longer valid.
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Old 2013-01-31, 13:29   Link #88
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I think everybody's forgetting that Oro said he has no intention of joining this war. Even i just remembered that. So who knows, maybe Oro just summoned the kage for Sasuke to ask them some questions. And why would Oro help Sasuke? Sasuke tried to kill him. Oro turning into a good guy maybe?

Jiraiya/Oro/Tsunade

Obito/Kakashi/Rin

Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura

All of them have pretty much an identical member from each group, you all know that. Kakashi wasn't evil, but Obito changed his heart. Oro Sasuke and Kakashi were all the geniuses/stand-outs of their group, so if Oro, for some reason, does have a change of heart and no longer wants to destroy Konoha (gave a bit of a hint in this chapter), then Sasuke will probably have the same.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:20   Link #89
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I don't disagree that it is tripe and silly development (you didn't need to quote me to get me to agree with myself ), but it now officially disputes your point that Naruto can't share the "glory" (ala the earlier encounters with the Zombies that you mentioned). Kishimoto, no matter how contrived, made Naruto share the "glory". Your point is no longer valid.
Um... I think I'll just accept that we have different opinions about glory/credit and what it means in a story. To me the rookies/alliance aren't really sharing his glory, the attack, credit and glory essentially goes to Naruto and Kurama from my perspective. I'd see it differently if Kishimoto allowed the alliance to stand tall on their own power, but this is not the case.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:21   Link #90
FireDetei
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So does this mean Anko is dead?.... Or am I wrong about her being Oro's host.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:33   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Um... I think I'll just accept that we have different opinions about glory/credit and what it means in a story. To me the rookies/alliance aren't really sharing his glory, the attack, credit and glory essentially goes to Naruto and Kurama from my perspective. I'd see it differently if Kishimoto allowed the alliance to stand tall on their own power, but this is not the case.
I think what James is trying to say is that the author meant for Naruto to share his glory with the alliance, it is just we as readers know better and call bullshit because there were fodder anyways.

so what we perceive and what the author meant to show are different.
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Old 2013-01-31, 15:27   Link #92
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So does this mean Anko is dead?.... Or am I wrong about her being Oro's host.
Sasuke was also Orochi's host, but Itachi pulling him out didn't kill Sasuke. Apparently the author decided that Orochi can store himself in different bodies and each parasitic instance of him can also share information with other instances. So from being immortal just by using the power of the white snake and body switching he was leveled up to being immortal because he can upload multiple copies of himself into other people and these copies autmatically replicate their memory between them Next level up for him should be to become like Agent Smith in the matrix
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Old 2013-01-31, 16:41   Link #93
james0246
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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
I think what James is trying to say is that the author meant for Naruto to share his glory with the alliance, it is just we as readers know better and call bullshit because there were fodder anyways.

so what we perceive and what the author meant to show are different.
Exactly. We might not like the contrived mostly symbolic nature of Naruto's acceptance of help. But, whether we like it or not, it is now canon that Naruto shares the glory with the attack on the Jyuubi.
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Old 2013-01-31, 17:06   Link #94
Dengar
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To be fair, empowering an army of living ninjas is far more chakra efficient than cloning himself an equal number of times. Not to mention that it basically adds his power to the unique skills of each and every one of them. Skills that he himself doesn't have.


Don't get me wrong, Naruto is the one that makes it all possible, but everyone is doing their part.
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Old 2013-01-31, 18:45   Link #95
itachi-san314
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If it's an Uchiha shouldn't it be either Sasuke's father or that Kagami guy who was among the 2nd hokage's team but later disappeared along with the fat guy?
I mean the 4 hokages may know much about the village but they probably don't know what was the Uchiha's secret plan that they believed would help them to take over the village. Also the disappearance of Kagami might be connected to that. Izuna was already dead before the village was started and the Uchiha joined the 1st hokage, so he probably can't answer Sasuke's questions about "what's a village, what's a clan?".
did you really just bring up kagami? i was hoping to be done hearing about him after that silly theory of him being tobi... kagami was a throwaway character that was included for the sole reason of enforcing the concept that the uchiha weren't always segregated and were normal members of konoha teams like other clans. there is no need or purpose to see that character again. might as well ask to see the akamichi team member

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I would like to see the 1st face Madara, so that we can see if he really lives up to his hype
he cant the way things are now. madara is not only more powerful with rinnegan, but he also has hashirama's powers and they are on equal footing with the ET bonuses. i think madara would only be satisfied fighting all 4 hokages at once

Quote:
I also would like to see Naruto face his father
yea me too. it's pretty much bound to happen at this point. my guess would be that when minato loses, sasuke takes the half kyuubi chakra for himself in order to have a fair fight with naruto

Quote:
As for the 3rd, he's hardly going to be in his prime. The soul that was in the Shinigami was from the twilight of his life, and even in the manga he appears to be an aged man. He's still an impressive ninja at this stage in his life, fighting and defeating the 1st and 2nd along with nearly crippling Orochimaru. But regardless, I wouldn't count on seeing him in his prime.
he might actually be better than his prime. remember he has unlimited chakra and a zombie body now. i dont think the age of someone's soul matters too much in this regard. but i could be wrong since kabuto brought madara back in his prime... either way hiruzen will be better than he was in part 1 since he has infinite chakra now

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Im sorry but kishi writes like a 12 year old making a fanfic, everyone guessed what he was going to do the moment this situation came up. If what is gonna happen is sooo obvious, it's boring.
i call bs on this... there were several other theories. i'd love for you to cite a post of yours in which you predicted this outcome
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Old 2013-01-31, 20:39   Link #96
b1gdawg
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Originally Posted by DJ* View Post
Since Oro's arms and the 1st and 2nds souls aren't still sealed within the 3rds zombie body, the Kyuubi chakra shouldn't be inside the 4th anymore either.

Let's see...
pretty good point, but i think Kishi is going to make it so that the 4th does have kyuubi chakra. Everyone's been saying that Naruto's surpassed his father, so i don't think it would be an entertaining fight. Raikage said he was faster, and the Kyuubi said he had surpassed him
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Old 2013-01-31, 21:55   Link #97
james0246
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Why does everyone think Minato would be able to so easily use the other half of the Kyuubi's chakra? Bearing in mind I expect that Kishimoto would allow him to easily use the chakra if he has it, realistically it takes years of practice to be able to use a bijuu's chakra so it would make little sense for Minato to easily be able to use the chakra without losing control or exploding. Obviously Kishimoto cares little about logic anymore, but it would still be pretty annoying if Minato can easily use the bijuu's chakra...
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Old 2013-01-31, 23:49   Link #98
Artimus_Prime
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^ kinda curious myself...i initially believed that the portion of chakra minato sealed away is moot since kurama chakra is suppose to be infinite...that was until i reread 504. now I at least expect it to come up in following chapters but since kurama(Cell, not really lol) himself hasnt hinted that he is incomplete without the remainder of his chakra im not sure where the author will go with it...

i mean isnt uzumaki karin in konoha somewhere? did she sense Taka's presence? could she have a role in dealing with the kyuubi chakra?
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Old 2013-02-01, 00:20   Link #99
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Why does everyone think Minato would be able to so easily use the other half of the Kyuubi's chakra? Bearing in mind I expect that Kishimoto would allow him to easily use the chakra if he has it, realistically it takes years of practice to be able to use a bijuu's chakra so it would make little sense for Minato to easily be able to use the chakra without losing control or exploding. Obviously Kishimoto cares little about logic anymore, but it would still be pretty annoying if Minato can easily use the bijuu's chakra...
that's the reason i was using. logic isn't much of an issue with this story. people can do things that go far beyond reasonable even in the magical world it's set in. for instance, how exactly did itachi 'program' shisui's eye? and how did kabuto remote control an entire zombie army? and how did orochimaru not only 'witness' events from his host bodies like Anko, he had a collective memory among his various instances. those are ridiculous abilities even if you consider shooting a giant fireball out of your mouth to be 'logical' in the narutoverse (which it is since it can be sufficiently explained)

so given that, i wouldn't be surprised to see minato control the kurama chakra well. he's dealt with it and felt it's power before and he's as quick a learner as kishi wants to make him. i also wouldn't be shocked if he remembers his conversation with naruto since it fits the orochimaru logic of shared experience and memories between soul fragments. lol this story has grown so much more far fetched than genjutsu and shadow clones...
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Old 2013-02-01, 00:53   Link #100
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Time to see how overrated the first hokage was.
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