Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Always funny to see the olds acting dumber , weaker etc.... than the youngs. Even the doc was shitty.

Not really.
While Fujita was acting cowardly, he actually tried to help the other guy (and that is how he got killed).
The doc is break after witnessing the slaughter, and splitting up like he suggested is not a bad idea anyway.
And unlike the others, Saki and Satoru have more experience with life threatening situations.

[Arya]

Probably because I have no real attachment with the main characters if we speak of the extinction of this society I think that they could deserve it, but not because they are evil or for their twisted morality. Because the law of evolution. Squeerats have still to reach the peak of their evolution, they are growing, fast, humans instead apparently reached their limits. They are living into an unstable balance where the minimum alteration of that balance alone (w/o Yakomaru's help) could lead, if not to extinction, to suffer heavy damages. If we mixed this situation with their we-are-like-gods mindset that, along with engineering of the queerats and who know what else, prevented them considering Yakomaru as a threat, I'm pushed to slightly side with Yakomaru.
And for that last consideration I'm blaming firstly Satoru, and secondly Saki, who first understood his true intentions and apparently for 12 years didn't share this bit of information with anyone. (Don't know if I missed something about that issue) I got a bit surprised back then that he figured it out, out of the blue, as much as I remained surprised afterward to see that apparently he/they never informed at least Tomiko-chan of that.

More in general speaking of guilt, even if I like Tomiko-san, she is the first who has to be blamed. Giving the in-world settings I think her longevity, paradoxically, softened her perception of the danger, leading her to think that it would be acceptable to made that experiment. But if I can agree with her in that, she tried to move forward, I could less later, when Shun's tragedy happened. IIRC Shun erased his village, didn't he? So at that point she should have strongly considered to erase the remaining test subjects. With the in-universe morals that wouldn't have to be such a big deal. I'd like to know by the way who was the profiler who decided to put Mamoru into the experiment. The second big issue happened in killing Mamoru first and failing at it later. You first made an experiment leaving people think freely then you don't take in consideration that it wouldn't go against you trying to take that same freedom back? What I'm saying is that if you want to kill Mamoru, again, you better kill them all, but Saki eventually, who showed the most firm mind and take her under strict checking later.
On aside note I also find Saki's voice-over apparent lack of sense of guilty nor of understanding of what happened in these days sad, but coherent with the we-are-like-gods mindset I spoke of previously. So even if I can understand her in-universe logic, that should lead to the fact that they will not change their way of life.

Back to the actual crisis, now I'm really curious to know how did Yakomaru keep in control the child fiend. How did he unleash him against humans? From what I know he should be uncontrollable. So even if I can see Yakomaru having not raised him, but kept in captivity, somehow, still I'm curious to know why he didn't attack the squeerats and why apparently he is following Yakomaru's scheme. (unless I missed some bit of infos along the road, that it's highly probable. )
Did Yakomaru found a way to control a karmic demon humans didn't think of?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

And again, it wouldn't have happened if they had simply continued with what they were doing. Rendering your argument wrong.

In fact, it was trying to move away from "being shit" (your words) that lead to this. Karma didn't bite them in the ass, it's no good deed goes unpunished.

And why would it not? As I recall, Mamoru did not get a stay of execution before he fled and a guarantee of safety.

[Diveman]

So finally everything makes sense to me, this is my theory of what happened, even though it is just a recollection of what we've learned or what has been implied so far:

So obviously this kid is Maria and Mamoru's son/daughter, how he ended up in Yakomaru's control we don't know but I do have 2 theories:

1-. They decided to have kids somewhere and Yakomaru offered his help, only to kill both and get the baby

OR

2-. Yakomaru captured them both, forced them to have the kid and then killed them.

Anyways, so Yakomaru also somehow had access to the knowledge the kids got from their trip, so he found of that there was a human who was brutal enough to massacre humanity and how he became like that. So he used that knowledge to shape this kid, to have huge amounts of stress etc and become that monster and now he's using him to "win" the war.

This is my theory from what I've seen so far, now I wonder how are they gonna get rid of this kid.

[Bombo]

I never felt like this once after watching ALL the animes !!! Yakomaru That bastard really pissed me off .

[sikvod00]

I personally think the biggest tragedy of this series will be if Yakomaru doesn't at least pay for his ruthless scheming by the end.

[DragoZERO]

Pretty good episode. I was really hoping we'd find out who the fiend was. That'll be a great reveal.

Now then.. let's all run away with our heads chopped off! Fox in the chicken coop!

Originally Posted by Bombo

I never felt like this once after watching ALL the animes !!! Yakomaru That bastard really pissed me off .

There are worse antagonists than him. By far. See Requiem for the Phantom.

[Diveman]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

I personally think the biggest tragedy of this series will be if Yakomaru doesn't at least pay for his ruthless scheming by the end.

or that Saki is telling the story while she's in prison because the Bakenezumi took over the world.

[Triple_R]

Honestly, if they're going to give us a "bad end", I'd like them to go all the way with it and have Yakomaru successfully conquer the world.

"Bad ends" may be rare, but what's even rarer is an end where the main antagonist is totally triumphant. It might be interesting/refreshing to see an impressively cunning antagonist rewarded for his guile and intelligence for a change.


At the same time, though, there's another climax/ending sequence I can imagine that would be satisfying to me.

Spoiler for Imagined Ending Sequence, Totally Speculative:

Satoru goes out a hero, deciding to be the one human to try to kill the Karmic Fiend in spite of Death Feedback. Satoru successfully brings down Yakomaru's WMD, but dies in the process.

An enraged and vengeful Saki sneers and lashes out at Yakomaru while Yakomaru begs for his life. But this time, it doesn't work for Yakomaru. Saki kills him.

The remaining queerats shudder in fear at the death of their glorious leader, and the lost of their WMD. At least one of them can communicate with Saki, and begs for mercy. This time, Saki decides to be merciful.

Saki spends the rest of her life being a kind of Queen to the remaining Queerats, and decides to work cooperatively with them to build some semblance of civilized and peaceful society. Saki is the last human, and she ruminates on how the Queerats really will become "the new humanity" once Saki's time is come.

[vansonbee]

That is an amazing end Triple and I would be satisfy with that, but I like to add a few tweaks like Saki being pregnant with Satou kid. XD

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by vansonbee

That is an amazing end Triple and I would satisfy with that, but I like to add a few tweaks like Saki being pregnant with Satou kid. XD

That would be an interesting tweak. I like it!

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

There are worse antagonists than him. By far. See Requiem for the Phantom.

Not familiar with Requiem for the Phantom but yeah sure there are tons of fictional villains worse than Squealer in terms of pure evil & deed. But honestly those villains tend to be a bit boring to me. I don't just hate Squealer, I love to hate him.

I like squealer as a villain because even though I think he is quite nasty, there is no one really squeaky clean in this story. You can also argue that while Squealer manipulated much of what is now happening, this story is a tragedy and perhaps the events could have been prevented if things had happened just a little differently.

Anyways there are a lot of reasons why I think Squealer is such a well written villain. First of all absence of the writing I think the performance of Namikawa Daisuke is terrific and really adds to squealer's performance. I literally feel dread when he is on screen.

I also like the fact that Squealer manipulated things behind the scene and really went from nothing to well what he is, that is pretty impressive. I think it was Kuromitsu who said he was almost Shakespearean. In the end I think he is nasty but he was only able to do what he could because of the flaws & mistakes of the other characters.



Edit: I don't really like to think of perfect endings because then I might disappoint myself in the end but mine would be

Spoiler:

With the human and queer rat village on the brink of collapse, Saki and Satoru escape together but in the end we are unclear of their fate

But I think my ending is impossible since Saki is obviously narrating as an adult

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Not familiar with Requiem for the Phantom but yeah sure there are tons of fictional villains worse than Squealer in terms of pure evil & deed. But honestly those villains tend to be a bit boring to me. I don't just hate Squealer, I love to hate him.

I like squealer as a villain because even though I think he is quite nasty, there is no one really squeaky clean in this story. You can also argue that while Squealer manipulated much of what is now happening, this story is a tragedy and perhaps the events could have been prevented if things had happened just a little differently.

Anyways there are a lot of reasons why I think Squealer is such a well written villain. First of all absence of the writing I think the performance of Namikawa Daisuke is terrific and really adds to squealer's performance. I literally feel dread when he is on screen.

I also like the fact that Squealer manipulated things behind the scene and really went from nothing to well what he is, that is pretty impressive. I think it was Kuromitsu who said he was almost Shakespearean. In the end I think he is nasty but he was only able to do what he could because of the flaws & mistakes of the other characters.

I don't hate Squealer. He isn't an evil person. He is an antagonist with just motives - the freedom of his people. It's one aspect that makes this series good - everyone is right and no one is wrong. There is no Dark Side and an evil old man with a black cloak.

And check out Phantom. It's fantastic. Slow to start but you won't regret sticking with it.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I don't hate Squealer. He isn't an evil person. He is an antagonist with just motives - the freedom of his people. It's one aspect that makes this series good - everyone is right and no one is wrong. There is no Dark Side and an evil old man with a black cloak.
.

Just want to point out I highly disagree with you on Squealer's motives but we will just have to wait & see.

And thanks for the recommendation.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Just want to point out I highly disagree with you on Squealer's motives but we will just have to wait & see.

What if we don't?

I mean, what if it remains no more clear than it is right now? What if Yakomaru never gets to monologue about his "true personal beliefs" or something like that?

DragoZERO's interpretation of Yakomaru isn't unreasonable given what we know right now. I mean, your view of him isn't unreasonable either, but I see room for differing interpretations here (at least so far).

Yakomaru's methods are obviously very brutal, but then war is war. FDR ordered the internment of 100,000 Japanese Americans. Truman authorized the atomic bombing of Japan. These men are generally considered war heroes to Americans, and FDR is widely considered one of the greatest US Presidents of all-time.

People in power, especially people in power during a war, have to make hard, nasty decisions.

[Kirarakim]

But Triple R I am saying I don't see that as Yakomaru's motives. I disagree with DragonZero that is what the ultimate outcome is.

Granted Dragon is giving him the benefit of the doubt and I am not. Of course it is open to interpretation at this point.

If it comes out that we still don't know in the end then it will still be open to interpretation like it is now.

I am not saying I am 100% right, I am just saying I interpret Yakomaru differently, so when it is said he has just motives, well to me he doesn't.

[Dark Wing]

I don't think Squealer is really doing all this for his people like he says more like he wants to be in charge.

[Enpitsu]

Originally Posted by Diveman

2-. Yakomaru captured them both, forced them to have the kid and then killed them.

I agree with this. As I recall, the Robber Fly insisted on invading the Spider Wasps (who had helped Maria and Mamoru). For Yakomaru who has recently acquired some knowledge from what I assume to be a False Minoshiro (he probably learned about ogres and karmic demons from this source and finally the reason as to why humans make them kill/off other humans), he must have seen this as prime opportunity to attack the Spider Wasps to 'capture' Maria and Mamoru, then have them mate to acquire the child for his purposes of usurpation.

Tomiko in the previous episode spoke with the most certainty that the bones were indeed Maria's and Mamoru's. I agree with Tomiko on this because why would the queerats, and specifically, Yakomaru take the risk of being punished from the older humans and be noticed for his plans so early in its conception (plus he's already gotten what he needed anyway: the child)? There is every reason to doubt the truth of Squealer's words that the bodies of "young gods are similar to tall queerats'" because of his very intention to overthrow humans.

[Bombo]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

There are worse antagonists than him. By far. See Requiem for the Phantom.

I didn't miss it but still yakumaru is the worst for his works .

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Diveman

2-. Yakomaru captured them both, forced them to have the kid and then killed them.

OMG.....

NSFW

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