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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 17 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 44 | 51.16% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 22 | 25.58% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 12.79% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 6.98% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.16% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.16% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.16% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-02-17, 05:28 | Link #142 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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They are just as likely to have "reasons" to kill when being a brain in a box. It is no different from a criminal in a prison cell who runs a cartel via a mobile phone. Just because they aren't going anywhere, as long as they still are free to 1. Think for themselves and 2. Make major decisions that affect the outside world as they saw fit, they are free to make a mess of things. You STILL haven't explained why you think being a brain in a box magically makes a criminal no longer able to harm people for their own reasons.
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2013-02-17, 05:41 | Link #143 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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But once again, such are the flaws of an aristocratic government system, which is why much care is placed with regards to selecting suitable individuals. You can argue against a dictatorship, but it does have practical applications. As such, I wouldn't call this monstrous, but it is oppressive, as is any system where societal order takes precedence to human freedom. Quote:
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2013-02-17, 06:49 | Link #144 |
Keep on keeping on
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The pale blue dot...
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P-P's world can't get any more worse, can't it? A society ruled by brains of the criminally asymptomatic - well, I had expected that, but the part about the Chief being linked to all 247 brains, including Kouzaburou Touma - I did not see that coming. The fact that the brains of criminally asymptomatic people, which include those of criminals such as Touma, can run a country comes off as slightly mind-boggling to me. How does Sibyl actually judge people? Assuming that the brains represent the people themselves (Touma still possesses his sense of self, as it seems), doesn't it mean that Sibyl is, to some extent, capable of emotion and not a mere computerized system? How can the brains cooperate in their judgement? I guess the advanced technology in P-P's world can answer to that, and it's still regulated by human authority, anyway...
Despite some holes lying around, P-P continues to be entertaining as a whole. Makishima really stood out this episode, and I'd probably be cheering him on more enthusiastically if it wasn't for his crimes and his twisted personality... Other little things: - I thought Kougami's hallucination at the end was well-done, especially when Makishima's 'chilling' call followed after. - Kagari's currently labeled as 'missing,' so possibly, he could still be alive? I won't get my hopes up too high though... |
2013-02-17, 07:33 | Link #145 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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It's not that the Dominator (as held by Akane) didn't want Makishima killed (same as with Toma) because he's a new recruit, in fact they could have just used paralyze mode. but because it can't read him. Which is why they wanted to recruit him after so that the Sibyl Main will have a better understanding of his kind of "uniqueness." So it's not "being a recruit" the reason they don't/can't shoot him. Quote:
the director only changed the Dominator state against Kagami (even though his PP is high enough) is because he is registered as an ENFORCER connected with the MWPSB in the computer, and because she wants the ultimate decomposer mode to remove all traces. She would have needed to change it too against Makishima because, Makishima can't be read normally, he is an anomaly. I think the very presence of the old style Hunter invalidates this point, remember he is very much just a brain on a robotic body at that point when he was doing all those crimes. They made a stern point of this during his arc , maybe as a foreshadowing of Sibyl. The director itself is another.
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2013-02-17, 07:39 | Link #146 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 38
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His remains weren't seen in the phone video, and if he was plain dead, why would the Chief then put Division 1 on a wild goose chase on the pretence that he's escaped? If they are already putting brains in boxes, other sorts of experiments on somebody else who's been made to disappear would not be out of the question. Potentially drag out what's left of Kagari as a means of undermining the protagonists once they start digging further into the system? As an aside, the symbolism of having 247 brains in the network seems a bit obvious. 24/7 much? |
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2013-02-17, 07:50 | Link #147 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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2013-02-17, 08:23 | Link #148 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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That's why I added the director there, unplugged, whoever is currently using the body is very much the same as that hunter.Time sharing would be a CON yet the vast powers afforded by memebership in the elite Sibyl team would definitely be a big PRO, and who's to say there is only one director body? Touma's way of speaking and even expression very much shows they retain their individuality therefore likes, dislikes, wants & ego too, he even said so himself. Sibyl is not one collective mind they don't make a homogenous mass they don't have a single will it seems, it's more like a collection of individuals, like your regular parliament & congress and WE KNOW how much being "subject" to the whole means to individual congressmen much worse this is a CONGRESS made of SOCIOPATHS!!!..... oh wait....
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2013-02-17, 09:11 | Link #149 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Well, the difference here is that these individual minds are no longer bound by physical desires or social pressures that direct much of human behavior, which is a great help. Rather, it's more like only the internal motivators of behavior are allowed to remain. Individuality is maintained of course, but group consensus regulates any decision-making involved. You say the word "sociopath" as if it was a scary word to run away from, but in the end, governance truly involves existing above and beyond the system to begin with.
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2013-02-17, 09:13 | Link #150 | ||||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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And frankly Qilin, the fact that a collective body is modulating behavior isn't that encouraging when the collective body happens to all be serial killers to. Quote:
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If the brains have individuality, but the collective has a will, then it automatically has social pressure. It's an assembly of 247 individuals. Of COURSE it has social pressure unique to it. What makes this existentially terrifying, is that this social pressure is coming from latent sociopathic murderers.
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2013-02-17, 09:36 | Link #151 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Personally, I think that these human-turned-brains aren't even human anymore. Let's forget that these people are former psychopaths for a second. If their brains don't have a body anymore and have a longer time span than most people, then by joining the Sybil collective, they severely damaged the relationship they've had as humans with bodies of flesh. Not only do they get to live longer, they have no more sense of danger, probably even less than the general population. What Touma Kouzaburou felt was indeed fear of having his existence taken away from him. If you're sealed up somewhere tight, in a nice warm box without having the need to inhibit a body, whose wellbeing is of utmost importance to your survival, then how exactly will you feel any responsibility to yourself, or to others for that matter? Giving a life or death judgment over another human being is at that point just a matter of disposing the body. How exactly would any human in that bodiless position be even able to empathize what a loss of body means to someone who's permanently stuck to it? Severing that connection with death is what made these psychopaths completely inhuman.
Other than that thought, I'm kind of disappointed of the fashion in which they made this revelation. I was hoping fantasy storytelling made some progress since having witnessed the horrors that is Fractale. |
2013-02-17, 10:27 | Link #152 | ||||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Well, if you're just going to assume that they're all "serial killers", I don't know why I bother. Still, killing innocent people in the name of societal order isn't exactly novel if we're looking at the history of governance. Quote:
What you're doing is that you're equating criminally asymptotic individuals to serial killers when all it really refers to is a deviant mode of thinking, one that can look at the whole picture objectively without being subjected to the values that permeate the system. Quote:
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Well, from the looks of it, you guys seem to have a very kneejerk negative reaction to the term "sociopath" or "psychopath" for that matter, but whatever. EDIT: Another interesting thing to note is that these described "psychopaths" are essentially the closest human beings are to being objective thinkers. They're essentially free of human values and morals, and that allows them to see things as they truly are. Perhaps what people find so scary about such individuals is how "free" they are to do whatever they decide to do, unfettered by unnecessary empathy or guilt.
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2013-02-17, 10:50 | Link #153 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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2013-02-17, 11:09 | Link #154 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I'm simply against coloring this issue in black and white. All I'm saying is that certain kinds of minds can make connections that normal ones don't, connections that vary in importance according to context. I'm just against this distasteful notion of: psychopath = "boo! bad!".
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2013-02-17, 11:18 | Link #155 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Distasteful notion? LOL. Last I heard, psychopathy is a condition in which the subject DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK about anyone else other than himself. How you can imagine they are somehow capable of holding the best interest of other people in mind is beyond my comprehension.
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2013-02-17, 11:26 | Link #156 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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The whole society vs. individual thing is a long-running debate, and whether one is better than the other tends to boil down to personal preference.
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2013-02-17, 11:55 | Link #157 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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But what you are REALLY saying, is that 250 people or so are able to do whatever they want because they are gods. Because they are not accountable. Because they are obeyed. What you are describing is a normal tyrannical country. There is nothing special about it; what you are describing is a system of government that had been around since the stone age. God-Kings have been everywhere in every continent. They also tend to stop existing after a while. Because there is a difference between God-Kings saying they are perfect, and God-Kings actually BEING perfect. There is no proof that the Sibyl system actually make good decisions. We see plenty of flaws. More importantly there is no incentive for them to make good decisions because they don't CARE. I now see that we are on different planets entirely; your idea of paradise is a nightmare to me.
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2013-02-17, 12:04 | Link #158 | |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Psychopaths are not objective. They are extremely self centered and biased! They're thinking "me! me! me!" all the time. They're arrogant. Thinking that people who lack empathy towards others magically become supremely logical and are thus the ideal thinkers and leaders for bringing the best society to others is absurd. Heck, some of the main characteristics people have considered to be hallmarks of psychopathy include: not having a realistic view of themselves or their lives, difficulty in making realistic long term plans or learning from experience, feelings of grandiose self worth, and a failure to accept responsibility for their own actions. But now they are supposed to be the perfect objective thinkers? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Speaking specifically of Psycho-Pass here, look at the Sybil brains. They're not objective. They're drunk on power, and there's no doubt about it. They're going around thinking "Heeeheeee, I'm a god! I'm above you all, pulling all your strings and making all the decisions about what happens to you all! I'm special, and I'll recruit other people who are special like me." It may well turn out that the Sybil set up is one which is so seductive for them that they're willing to become the "law", at least to a limited extent, but it doesn't change them into being good people with good judgement. As others have pointed out, Masaoka's crime co-efficient went up until he accepted the Sybil system. Yayoi's went up after she started listening to music that the Sybil system disapproved of. Kougami's started to go up after he became fixated on solving the murder of someone one of the Sybil brains had killed. It's hard to believe, after hearing Touma talk, that the Sybil brains are objective and acting in people's best interests rather than in the interests of preserving the system that gives the brains their "I'm a god!" kicks. Not least that psychopaths really don't give a damn about other people. Why should they be able to make better decisions than, say, Kougami or Tsunemori? |
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2013-02-17, 12:18 | Link #159 | |||
maybenotimome
Join Date: Feb 2011
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what those brains believe to be should have no importance, than instead the results they operate it's being a trend here judging the results from their maker's personal reasoning, instead of judjing the results alone if the results are bad, they're bad regardless if the ones behind it are ebil crazy brains or loving teddy bears with the best intentions, same if the results are good, even if having something "good" from something "bad" would be counterintuitive Quote:
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since we're quite agreeing the reactions on masaoka, yayoi, kougami, and many others being imprisoned from being "latent" criminals was a self-preservation mechanism of the system, what is left is deciding if self-preservation is always a bad thing many seems to agree it is always bad personally i don't agree much with that, since any human and also living being(except some rare exceptions) have self-preservation mechanisms, and that doesn't make all humans and living beings being bad cause they preserve themselfes, so for me it's more of a neutral trait than good/bad it should be more about how the reaction is done, if its entity is measured on the treat, and what is the range of reaction from treats from that point of view, the sibyl is a bit paranoid in its reactions many of the latent criminals imprisoned like yayoi, and the artist they visited during the school sculpture episodes, didn't look so treating to justify a detention :/ anyway, since this is more of a discussion about the sibyl sistem than the episode itself, wouldn't it be better to more this to the sibyl discussion thread? .-. Last edited by zeando; 2013-02-17 at 12:52. |
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