2013-02-24, 04:29 | Link #521 | |
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2013-02-24, 06:03 | Link #522 | |
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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"It always comes back to karuta!" <- said by every member with a disgusted face. Anyway, it's clear there is a difference between the Chihaya and Arata in their approach to karuta. Chihaya is overly ambitious/greedy, setting way too many goals and is clueless on how to achieve (or prioritize) them, whereas Arata only sets one goal at a time, and even scaled back from his original goal of being Meijin (for the time being). |
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2013-02-24, 06:44 | Link #523 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Well to be fair I am not saying Arata & Chihaya are not connected by Karuta & their friendship but in that scene I felt there was actually a brief distance in thought which is why I found it ironic to talk about the deep connection they have specifically after this episode.
I do think they have an important connection but I interpreted that scene very differently. Even Chihaya kind of briefly reacted to it and then had to say but I care about winning the individual competition too.
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2013-02-24, 12:03 | Link #524 |
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I agree with Kirarakim--the phone call marks out a point of conflict rather than connection between Chihaya and Arata.
Partly this is a misunderstanding. Arata says what he does just since he shares Chihaya's own deepest motivation, and her reason for preferring teams, which is to play karuta forever with Arata and Taichi. Nevertheless, the phone calls comes forward to develop the key theme of team versus individual play. One of the things I learned from Chihaya's mom in this episode is that this is not an either-or, one to the exclusion of the other. Seeing both of her daughters depressed, on the verge of quitting their dreams, Ayase-san buys Chihaya a hakama. There follows that beautiful cascade: her mother's commitment reinvigorates Chihaya to start practicing karuta again. And then Chitose, who has spent the whole episode saying really outrageous things about karuta and Chihaya, finds in Chihaya's dedication the inspiration to throw away the college applications and to rededicate herself to her dream of becoming an actress. The family comes together, through a mother's individual act for the sake of one daughter, to inspire both daughters to renew their individual dreams. At each point the three women act as individuals, but in so doing, they bring the family together. It is just as Harada-sensei says: “An individual match is a team match, and a team match is an individual match.” It is really very wonderful and inspiring to see how this interplay between individual and family works out. I think Kazu-kun is absolutely right to point out that learning Chihaya's perspective on team play will be an important character development for Arata. +1. I continue to think the romance is just a tease. To torture Taichi and his fans, apparently...S for Suetsugo-Sadist
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2013-02-24, 12:47 | Link #525 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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But I think because of all the "torture" Suetsugo puts him through, she must really like him. Like she wants him to struggle so his rewards in the end will be that more sweet.
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2013-02-24, 14:06 | Link #527 |
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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It would fundamentally change the anime if Chihaya were to fall in love with anybody. It would stop being about karuta, Team Mizusawa, Chihaya's dream of becoming queen, etc., and would become instead about Chihaya and Boy X. That's why the romance is only ever a tease. Shippers need to just give it up.
Golly, Kirarakim, are you saying Taichi's sufferings portend sweet rewards in the future? So, if Chihaya starts going out with Arata, that's so Taichi's "rewards in the end will be that more sweet?" I think there is a problem with this logic...
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2013-02-24, 14:13 | Link #528 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Well, if Chihaya started going out with Arata so early that'd mean their relationship will fail. So, yeah, it could make Taichi's potential reward "more sweet". Then again, the point is moot, because if Chihaya really starts going out with someone it won't be till the very end of the series. And even then, it may not happen.
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2013-02-24, 14:15 | Link #529 | |
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2013-02-24, 14:32 | Link #530 | ||
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I think there is nothing wrong with shipping and routing for a couple (although I still think both pairs have an equal chance at this point). What is wrong when shippers feel this need to bash characters when they don't do things that pertain to their ship. Quote:
Although the manga-ka gives ALL the characters a hard time and winning never comes easily, Taichi especially fails more than he wins. I think this is definitely on purpose on the part of the manga-ka to develop his character. She wants him to struggle before he can be rewarded so that reward will be more meaningful. As for his reward being Chihaya, I never said that. However Taichi is not suffering because Chihaya is with or is going to end up with Arata, he is suffering by his own inability to let Chihaya know how he feels out of fear that he will lose her. And I Do think it is possible he might lose her, but that is a chance he has to take. Whether Taichi ends up with Chihaya or not I do believe he will only find happiness if he lets his feelings out.
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2013-02-24, 15:25 | Link #531 | |
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Location: Mandaluyong, Philippines
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I agree with that assessment. Chihayafuru could be a sports manga pretending to be romance manga or a romance manga packaged in a sports manga. The line is not definite there, which makes it all the interesting. Taichi could be the perennial unrequited lover of many romance stories, always faithful and very supportive, but never to be the one to take the center stage. That I, think was what Taichi thinking of himself. Always behind the shadow of Arata in a slow wallow of self-pity. This is something that Taichi should learn to strive from. He had always played games that he thinks he can be no. 1 at, avoiding games that there's someone who better than him, like Kurata with Arata. The game of Kurata is Chihaya's heart, he should step up and strengthen his resolve that he can be better than Arata, no matter the handicaps. When they were kids Arata called Taichi a coward, not much I think from playing dirty but for not man enough to actually tell Chihaya his true feelings for her and not hiding behind from his bully behavior. Even then I think Arata knows what Taichi is already feeling which makes it really awkward since Arata has feelings for Chihaya also. Both guys maintain this silent well understood balance De tente regarding their love for Chihaya. Both guys have trouble in expressing their feelings, making each of them half of a whole of what could have been a perfect partner for Chihaya. It's their journey through these challenges that adds an extra layer to the excitement of the show. |
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2013-02-24, 15:39 | Link #532 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Romance is a point of characterization, especially for Taichi (it's noticeable only by its absence in the others, as a sign of immaturity). It can't become the defining point of the story, because then the genre of the narrative itself changes. Shippers' demands for specificity and clarity require the story to become the romance novel it is not. So the romantic elements function only as a tease to the viewers, and as a source of suffering for Taichi. It is never going to go anywhere, or at least not until the manga is finished. So I say it again: the romance is a tease. Quote:
Taichi has a room full of trophies and flocks of girls throwing themselves at his feet. He is only interesting so far as he possesses neither. Taichi's suffering and failure humanizes him, so that we can care for him in the first place and admire him for his efforts to achieve his goals. We viewers would like him to succeed, and it would be very satisfying were he to do so, but that success is immaterial to the literary purpose of his suffering, which is to make us care for him. We already do so, and will continue to even if or especially if he finally fails. That's why I don't think there's any connection between Taichi's distress in this episode and whatever his ultimate fate is going to be down the road. By the way, I respect Taichi more for not forcing his own romantic agenda on Chihaya. Romantic love has its selfish element, which Taichi, to his credit, refuses to go along with, whatever his feelings and personal hurt. He allows Chihaya to pursue her karuta dreams, rather than demand that she make a choice to fulfill his own. Taichi is an honorable lover.
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2013-02-24, 16:05 | Link #533 | |
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I kind of disagree with this. It's a typical storytelling device to build drama by having the characters struggle and fail, and then revert that into success in the climax of the story. Most stories work like that, so I wouldn't be so sure that Taichi's current suffering doesn't portent success at the end of the route. Of course, this is just a device, not a rule, so I'm not claiming that current failure will lead to success in the future for sure. Chances are it will though, since most stories do work that way.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2013-02-24 at 16:21. |
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2013-02-24, 16:14 | Link #534 | |||||
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I think there is definitely indication that Chihaya could love Arata but does not realize or understand her own feelings. I think this is what Taichi believes. Or it could be that Taichi is misinterpreting strong feelings of friendship for love. As for Arata we see so little of him that it is even harder to grasp how he feels, again does Arata care for Chihaya as a friend or something more. However, I don't think the love triangle doesn't exist because only Taichi's feelings are clear cut. The love triangle is being set up for the audience not just the characters. Quote:
And yes Karuta is and should be the main focus of the story but I think the reason why fans focus so much on romance because just like how we are never sure who is going to win that match of karuta we are not sure who is going to end up with who. And that type of uncertainty makes for good storytelling. Quote:
Does struggling always mean you will succeed in real life, unfortunately no. But I think it's not wrong for a reader to expect to see this for a character. Success can of course come in many different forms. Quote:
Of course it is admirable that despite failure, Taichi doesn't give up and keeps struggling. This is certainly part of his character growth but I don't believe Tachi's ultimate purpose in the story is just to struggle & that he won't earn something in the end. Quote:
Also I think Taichi finally telling Chihaya how he feels is not just about forcing her to make a choice but being honest. Perhaps now isn't the best time to tell her but I think he should eventually whether she will share his feelings or not.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-02-24 at 16:31. |
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2013-02-24, 18:11 | Link #535 |
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Join Date: May 2004
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The romantic part of me thinks the same way of Kirarakim.
I mean, to me Taichi is the most developed character, we even usually see his point of view among all the other characters. So I asked myself, which author would dedicate all this time and narrative efforts to one single character if she doesn't even like him. If I had to say she really like this character. So the conclusion Kirarakim pointed out would sound quite logic. It's a typical storytelling device as Kazu-kun has said. And I do talk about him ending up with Chihaya. Because so far I can't see him step over it to the point to find another equal "reward" that would satisfy him (though I think in Taichi's mind his love path id completely detached by his Karuta path) and the audience as much as that. Namely, him becoming a Karuta master or overcoming his own flaws. The latter is already happening and the former would be a bit unrealistic to me. So they havent' the same weight. Unless he would overcome his feelings for her, but I think he will not. But the rational part of me agrees with hyperborealis, the so called love triangle is just a tease for Taichi and for the audience, for now. A way to sympathize and root for him. And if anything things will become even harder for Taichi. And not just for Arata return. But because they hinted to some connections between him and Shinobu which could configure a Chihaya being in Taichi's shoes. And it would double the hard situation of Taichi. Despite probably they don't share any feelings. But doesn't matter. If the author would have relieved a bit Taichi love situation I would have expected a new character who could be a (real) love interest for him, someone like Shinobu. (quite a commonplace as a narrative choice but still). On a side note, I do agree that he should express his feelings. Usually it is really liberating, whatever the outcome would be. (And for that reason he never will do it )
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2013-02-24, 23:23 | Link #536 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Taichi needs to move on to greener pastures imo. It could break up the harmony within the competitive club as its a small one, especially if she declines. It could lead to one or both of them leaving the club due to it. Club losing its rank etc due to loss of talented members with people at their school gunning for them. Another reason why they can't have a Chihaya x Taichi.
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2013-02-24, 23:42 | Link #537 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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I don't know. More than liking or loving Arata, Chihaya idolizes him. For her, Arata is the personification of karuta, a god incarnate, not a prospective boyfriend. Maybe if they were closer, she would start to see him, you know, as a human . But I don't know.
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2013-02-25, 00:10 | Link #538 |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Ep. 7 showed something different. No idolization in her desire to see him. That was a "She wants to see him" moment. This is a shojo title. Idolization has probably ended already. It only extends so far when you're competitors anyways. And normal females lose that idolization stuff when they mature and have relationships.
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2013-02-25, 00:17 | Link #540 | |
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But really this is fiction. I don't think either Taichi/Chihaya or Arata/Chihaya is more likely at this point. Anyone can find "scenes" to support their pairing. Heck at this point as has been already pointed out Chihaya/Karuta seems the most likely . And also this isn't shoujo but josei and I am convinced Suetsugu is keeping things purposely ambiguous at this point.
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cards, josei, karuta, sports |
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