Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[SeijiSensei]

Let me reiterate that my complaint about Saki focused less on her psychological weakness, though that bothers me, too, and more on how inconsistently her PK powers are portrayed. That scene in the last episode with the guano floor is a good example. The only reason I can see for the writers' making her walk through that goop rather than floating over it is to encourage the audience to feel sorry for her. If these guys can move giant boulders and submarines around with PK, certainly they could have transported a skinny young woman over the goop, even if Saki couldn't do it herself.

It just makes me wonder whether the anime writers have diverted from the novel in their characterization of Saki during this arc. While she was never as powerful as her friends during adolescence, she wasn't without abilities as we could see in scenes like the search for Maria and Satoru when she motored around on that snowboard.

[Triple_R]

Do people here really think that Saki is "psychologically weak"?

Just because she isn't totally stoic?

[SeijiSensei]

I think she is weaker than we have seen her in past episodes. Whether there is a reasonable explanation for that based on her recent experiences is a different question. But she was often portrayed as brave when she led them across the Barrier or struck out to find Maria and Mamoru. That side of her personality seems to have been buried in this arc, at least until she reached the laboratory. She certainly still has strengths like stoicism and perseverance.

But again I don't really care so much about these issues as those surrounding her on-again/off-again powers. She seems to have powers only when the writers decide she needs to do something like blow a hole in a rock wall.

[Moeterumoe]

1) Just to make things clear, Shun isn't back from the dead.
It's not like he tell Saki something she can't know by herself.

It's more like... her subconscious created a split personality of her in the image of Shun to make Saki think better, and he does the 1 + 1 for her.

2) Did you know, the Psychobuster was supposed to look like a cross, but they've changed it in the anime (for obvious reasons I suppose).

3) Now, I won't call what I'm about to say a spoiler since it's in the preview after all. I would only give context to what you see in that preview, but just in case... I give a warning beforehand:

Spoiler for what you see in the preview for episode 24:

While the Psychobuster can be used to kill the "Akki" (because it's effect doesn't work right away), they (Saki and Satoru) are assuming that the one who will use it on the "Akki" will probably die after the "Akki"'s death from death feedback. And like you see in the preview, it is Satoru who is holding the Psychobuster.

That's why Saki's screams for Satoru not to use it in the preview. Satoru plan to sacrifice himself to kill the "Akki".

[Dark Wing]

I think it's important for everyone to remember...

Leaders are not born, they are made and crafted by their experiences.

I truly believe this final arc is the ultimate test of Saki's will. She is being pushed mentally and physically harder then she ever have in her life and when it's all said and done she'll come out of it a much stronger person.

After all look at Tomiko. She didn't seem that strong willed during the first fiend attack on the village back when she was just a humble nurse standing in that dark hallway crying in fear. Yet she still went on to become the most respected leaders of the community and I believe it was be cause she was willing to harden herself after the trauma of what she experienced first hand.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

But again I don't really care so much about these issues as those surrounding her on-again/off-again powers. She seems to have powers only when the writers decide she needs to do something like blow a hole in a rock wall.

To be fair, I can definitely see where this is a bit annoying. I myself would have preferred it if Saki had handled one of those monsters herself.

But I don't have a problem with the emotions she portrays in this episode. The key thing is that she's not giving up or running away, imo.

Originally Posted by Moeterumoe

1) Just to make things clear, Shun isn't back from the dead.
It's not like he tell Saki something she can't know by herself.

I didn't think Shun was "back from the dead". But I thought that he might have put a sort of post-hypnotic suggestion in her mind, with it triggered to cause her to hear his voice and him saying comforting words during moments of high stress for her. Since we are dealing with high-level PK-users here, this is far more potent, vivid, and long-lasting than your typical post-hypnotic suggestion.

This idea that her subconscious created a split personality... Ugh. I can't say I like that. That would mean she really is going crazy and delusional.

[Moeterumoe]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

To be fair, I can definitely see where this is a bit annoying. I myself would have preferred it if Saki had handled one of those monsters herself.

But I don't have a problem with the emotions she portrays in this episode. The key thing is that she's not giving up or running away, imo.




I didn't think Shun was "back from the dead". But I thought that he might have put a sort of post-hypnotic suggestion in her mind, with it triggered to cause her to hear his voice and him saying comforting words during moments of high stress for her. Since we are dealing with high-level PK-users here, this is far more potent, vivid, and long-lasting than your typical post-hypnotic suggestion.

This idea that her subconscious created a split personality... Ugh. I can't say I like that. That would mean she really is going crazy and delusional.

No kidding...

The poor girl is LOSING IT! She went crazy! Now she have a split personality that talks to her in her mind. But can you blame her after all she went through?

If she'll lose Satoru too, the only person left that she loves and care about, I don't even want to think what will happen to her and what will be her psychological state :-/


By the way, did you know they took down a scene where Saki tell Satoru that she loves him, when they where on the boat, I don't know why they've took that down :-(

Also, I see a lot of comments from people who think Saki was in love with Maria too... WTF? No she wasn't. She loved her as a friend but that's it.

The only two people Saki was\is ever IN love with are Shun and Satoru.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You're really going over-the-top with this...

Yes, I tend to exaggerate to get my point across. Even so, the current Saki does remind me more of Mamoru than the old Saki.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, they haven't. Saki has chosen to take actions no less dangerous than they have.

Like what? She's only been running away and following directions (Tomiko's, her parents'). Not that I can blame her for that. There wasn't much she could do.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm saying that if you compare Saki to the strongest people she has worked with, it will cause a skewed view of her character. They're not the standard for "moderate strength". They're the standard for heroic strength.

Who should I compare her with then? Her parents? Tomiko? Shisei? These are about the only remaining named character I can think of. Are they all exceptions, even though Saki is supposed to be the exception? (highest personality index in the academy's history)

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Then tell me where all the bold heroes were during the various shooting massacres that have plagued America in recent years and decades.

Satoru's level of strength is very much the exception. So is Inui's.

You can't be serious. Do you truly expect people (most of the time kids/teenagers) to stand up to guns? This would be insane, not bold.

Saki, while not as strong as the others, still has cantus. Something the writers seem to forget. She is not helpless. I at least expect her to be able to defend herself. She hasn't done that a single time in this arc. She's always protected by others. Having her stand still while a giant bug was about to eat her was the final straw for me.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Did Saki showing a bit of disgust over bugs in any way, shape, or form seriously impede the mission she was on?

No, it didn't. So you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Good grief...

It was just an example showing how odd Saki's characterization has been. It was a very pointless and silly scene. She should have been able to blow away the insects or float above them. Was there really any point in adding that scene at such a crucial moment in the storyline? Was it truly the best time to show us Saki can't handle bugs? What were they trying to tell us exactly? They seemed to be going out of their way to make Saki look weaker than she truly is. That scene was out of place.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

How so? Even back then, Satoru was the one leading the charge.

And Saki still has what it takes to lead a village.

He only lead the charge because he got back his powers. And even then, Saki's advices were very valuable.

Saki overcame her fears and remained cool-headed throughout the whole ordeal. She saved Satoru on at least one instance. She was smart enough to figure how to undo the binding of Satoru's cantus. She acted bravely and pulled a first rate bluff on Squealer. And tons of other things I forget. She was very pro-active and not passive like she is now.

She was only 12 years old back then. Her 14 years old self was no different. I would have expected a 26 years old Saki to be even more resourceful.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

She has always been this way. She's always been very emotionally expressive. She's never been the person to lead the fight.


Anyway, if Shinji never bothered you, I don't see any good reason for Saki to bother you.

No, she has not always been this way. She is not a very aggressive person, but she is certainly not passive either. Her character is not acting the same way as before, and this is what bothers me.

Perhaps I've been overestimating her all along. I held her in very high regards before this arc. She was a very strong, smart, and yet still emotional heroine.

[Moeterumoe]

Yeah, I also don't like Saki in this arc.

I prefer Satoru, he's the TRUE HERO of this series. The action guy and all that...

[kk2extreme]

It's a trap (literally)?

[Forsaken_Infinity]

I am late but let's get going ._.

First off, from what I gathered from the various off-screen sources (spoilers) from previous episodes that are safely past at this point, and I still only bring this because the discussion is pertaining to it and because the information was all mentioned in discussions for the past episodes and such, that is neither a hypnotic suggestion nor a split personality. Rather, she connects with Shun's own thoughts (soul, if you will) floating around in the collective consciousness that these "psychics" tap into to gain their power. She still has to interpret them and "he" can't tell her something she doesn't know etc. but she isn't suffering from a very rare mental disease and Shun didn't do anything magical to her either. They just had/have a strong connection and they both tap into this endless infinite stream of collective consciousness or something.

Think something like Lain. Better still, if you have seen Ghost Hound, think of what the physicist does after burning his house down. If you are into Oriental philosophy then one consciousness is a staple. And that is increasingly the case if you are into some interpretations of modern physics. Still, it remains a bastardization of the observer effect. Just not as bad as some others. The anime just hasn't done much explaining and because they chose to cut on the dialogue, a lot of pertinent and important information has been removed. For instance, I am told Satoru was going to present this as the competing theory to the theory that hypothesized that their power hails from the Sun. He also pointed out (this is in the anime) that there is essentially no way it's their internal power as human metabolism doesn't create enough energy for that. There would still be ways for a human to wield such powers but that would require some rather literal interpretations of the mass energy equivalency and I suspect that is a bastardization of degrees worse than this one is of the observer effect and collective consciousness.

That also explains the nature of their power. They kind of have to form a conscious mental picture of what they want to harness the power of the collective consciousness. If they can do that, most anything is fair game. If they can't, for whatever reason, including but not limited to exhaustion, fear, pain, numbness from medication etc., they can't use the power. That's probably why there's so much on and off going on although I would still attribute that largely to just ignorance from the anime staff. I highly doubt the novel author went to the trouble of detailing Saki's reaction to slugs to such detail that he mentioned how she walked over them, crushing each one a crunchy whole.

Now onto Saki and her character retardation of sorts.

I agree that Saki hasn't really shown the best composure lately and also that she showed much more promise as a child under stress. I don't necessarily condemn her just for being more expressive than the rest of her party. Women (human ones at least) are innately more expressive than men and in my book, that's one of the few places where their gender is clearly superior. That doesn't mean they are better off as a whole as being stoic has its own uses and thank God Saki is surrounded by some fairly "badass" men to handle that part of the bargain. Saki has made some pretty tough choices and while she may not have been "heroic" per se, she had a set role to play and she is doing her part fairly well. Part of being a leader is knowing that you are more valuable than others and trying your best not to fall unless otherwise inevitable, like some freakish accident, an injury that impedes others, or just plain old assassination.

However, I do think she hasn't, at least in the anime, displayed even normal composure that would be expected of somebody who has been through all she has and supposedly has the best mental stability. Rather, the anime has tried it's whole best to sorely point out that she is still deeply traumatized from ... well, everything. WTF. I don't mind her being scared of bugs and rather petrified in the face of an unknown mortal danger. I mind what the anime did with those insertions of Maria and how much of a moodkiller the stupid ending song is. For all my anime-viewing life, I have been a strict proponent for openings and endings and yet I get palpably angry when this stupid ending rolls in episode after episode after the character who is singing that is long dead. I blame the anime for this.

Even in this episode, they do their best to cue in her trauma over Shun. While I understand that Shun was an important influence in her life, and that he is still a central character, I don't understand why they have to portray Saki as weak and mentally unstable to make room for his entrance. She could be perfectly fine and strong-willed and still moved by remembering Shun. Heck, I would prefer that and if child Saki is anything to go by, it was certainly possible to portray such strength in tandem with emotional intensity and expressiveness.

Oh well. This anime had a strong start and some really impressive showing here and there but by and large, it missed the ball. Both in terms of where they could have marketed themselves better and where they could have done better with what they show on screen for a mature audience. I don't think pandering is bad per se, and I think it's telling when an anime manages to pander to specific groups without detracting from it's value and even better, from innovating creative ways to make the pandering have value even for those who would rather not have any such thing. But I really hate pandering of the sort where it's just a random, and very distracting, insertion. And I hate it more when it happens in an anime which didn't even attempt to be creative and utilize other valid opportunities to market itself to niche markets. SSY could have easily offered lots of things for essentially all the different markets there exist in anime fandom. There is that much room in the plot. And budget is a non-issue because making things work with low budget is the hallmark of good production.

I really wish I could say that I still consider the show a very good one and such but I think it's about time I take a lengthy break from anime as I am getting increasingly disoriented by "minor" things. In all fairness to SSY and the crew behind it, it's a good enough show that I am going to see it to completion even when I have stopped with nearly every other running show and don't plan to start new ones. But it's not the cynic in me that derides this show as a failure, it's the fan who has been heavily let down.

And yes, another point I really hold against the anime is it's treatment of Satoru. They totally didn't have to distance him from the spotlight to make room for Saki's relationship with Mamoru and Shun. And his being heroic and constantly maturing would have taken absolutely nothing away from the magnificence of Shun either. SSY the anime should look at Chihayafuru. Taichi is constantly evolving and always the savior and yet Arata retains his grace. Whenever he is on screen, the effect that he had when he was a prodigious child still makes itself obvious. And Chihaya's relationship with either men doesn't deteriorate. Rather, they are complimentary. And from what I know, that was the case in SSY the novel as well.

Btw, the episode itself was okay. Not nearly as good as the last one but something better than some other episodes.

Oh and about Kiroumaru, the show mentioning the possibility that he is a setup makes things more interesting but I am thinking it's either a red herring or that Kiroumaru's going to betray them but then side with them when it matters, due to a change of heart (possibly from his encounter with Saki?) or as he had always planned or whatever. I doubt he is going to be portrayed in all out negative terms but I won't complain should that be the case either.

[Squarecrow]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Then tell me where all the bold heroes were during the various shooting massacres that have plagued America in recent years and decades.

Originally Posted by Kanon

You can't be serious. Do you truly expect people (most of the time kids/teenagers) to stand up to guns? This would be insane, not bold.

Though there were actually (unarmed) people who stood up to gunmen, knowing they would likely die. Liviu Librescu held the door to his classroom closed, while being shot through it, so his students could escape through the windows. That isn't the only instance of that. Recently 3 people tackled a gunman on a school bus and got the gun away before anyone was hurt.

They didn't even have PK, just balls!

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Moeterumoe

@Forsaken_Infinity

1) I read the novel, Shun IS DEAD. It's a split personality created by her subconscious.

2) Shun doesn't REALLY get that much spotlight, he died very early and we barely saw him since. But yes the anime does cut a lot of Satoru, but he's still the main male character and the most important character along-side saki.

I know that Shun is dead. I haven't read the novel so I don't exactly know the details and I will thus not argue with you or pursue this further but I was told their connection was due to the nature of their power which possibly results from their tapping into the collective consciousness and it was my interpretation (and sounded like the guy who wrote these thought much the same) that Shun and Saki's connection past his death was the novel's way of providing a proof for that hypothesis.

And no I am not saying the anime gives Shun the spotlight, rather that it tries too hard to be melodramatic and sell on the relationship aspects with past lovers or whatever. More so with Maria for obviously less-than-decent motives but also with Shun.

Yeah, Kuromitsu wrote in that episode thread that that scene where she says she loves Satoru was cut. So I knew that from AS.

I don't think I agree that Saki didn't love Maria. They both clearly loved each other. Physically and otherwise. It is possible to hold your love for someone over your love for someone else higher and still be more than friends. Maria herself chose Mamoru over Saki, after all.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Like what?

Like going on this very mission without the slightest hesitation or second thought? Kiroumaru's words about what Tokyo is like in the world of SSY weren't exactly subtle. And his words about how hellish this place is appears to be coming true.

She's only been running away and following directions (Tomiko's, her parents').

She's following directions, which is the opposite of running away in the deepest sense of the phrase "running away".

Granted, those directions have, until now, amounted to "run away to safety". But that's not the case now. She's on a mission to a very dangerous and hellish place to retrieve a very dangerous weapon.

You can't be serious. Do you truly expect people (most of the time kids/teenagers) to stand up to guns?

And how is a man with a gun any more dangerous than a cantus-using human that is able to kill you with a thought, wants you dead, and you literally can't hurt him?

Remember that Saki was told by Kiroumaru that Yakomaru and "the fiend" are following after them. It only makes sense that she would be extremely on-edge and expecting the worst to strike out at her at any moment. I definitely think anxiety over the thought of getting sneak-attacked at any possible moment by the Akki is a big part of what has Saki so frazzled in this episode.

Saki, while not as strong as the others, still has cantus. Something the writers seem to forget. She is not helpless. I at least expect her to be able to defend herself. She hasn't done that a single time in this arc. She's always protected by others. Having her stand still while a giant bug was about to eat her was the final straw for me.

Yes, I'll admit that she probably doesn't use her powers as much as she should.

It was just an example showing how odd Saki's characterization has been. It was a very pointless and silly scene. She should have been able to blow away the insects or float above them. Was there really any point in adding that scene at such a crucial moment in the storyline? Was it truly the best time to show us Saki can't handle bugs? What were they trying to tell us exactly? They seemed to be going out of their way to make Saki look weaker than she truly is. That scene was out of place.

Here is what I think this anime episode is trying to do.

It's trying to heighten the tension by showing how frazzled and somewhat shell-shocked the main character is.

I think that what it's aiming for is a viewer reaction of "Wow, even Saki is starting to crack a bit! Things are really getting extremely dire and we are heading for a great conclusion!" Unfortunately, the episode clearly missed the mark a bit for many viewers, resulting in "Man, what the hell is wrong with Saki? She's supposed to be stronger than this!"

She was only 12 years old back then. Her 14 years old self was no different. I would have expected a 26 years old Saki to be even more resourceful.

I know it's counter-intuitive, but some people decline with age in some respects. Going through a lot of hellish experiences can do that to a person.

The old saying "Whatever doesn't kill me will only serve to make me stronger" is true sometimes. But sometimes the opposite is true.

No, she has not always been this way.

She has not always been this frazzled. She hasn't always given off this world-weary vibe. But her basic personality is the same.

Perhaps I've been overestimating her all along. I held her in very high regards before this arc. She was a very strong, smart, and yet still emotional heroine.

I'll admit that I liked Saki a bit better when she was a kid/teenager. Yes, she had a bit more spunk to her back then.

Again, I think the impression we're supposed to get here is that even Saki's hope and resolve is dwindling. That the youthful "I'll never quit, I'll never give in, and I'll never say die!" passion of the character is slowly being crushed by the harshness of her reality.

This is probably setting up either a very tragic end, or an epic comeback. Sometimes a narrative breaks down a character and makes him or her look a bit pathetic in order to make their eventual comeback that much sweeter.

Maybe that's what we're in for here.


That being said, I don't like how she's actually going crazy with Shun visions. Yes, that feels a bit too much like "Break the cutie" to me. In other anime shows, I don't necessarily mind it, but I'd prefer not to see it in this one.

[kuromitsu]

I have a million things to say about people blaming Saki and calling her weak and useless and a damsel in distress but I don't have time, so I just leave a huge +1 for Triple_R here...

OK, just this one.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

That scene in the last episode with the guano floor is a good example. The only reason I can see for the writers' making her walk through that goop rather than floating over it is to encourage the audience to feel sorry for her. If these guys can move giant boulders and submarines around with PK, certainly they could have transported a skinny young woman over the goop, even if Saki couldn't do it herself.

And they should do that every time she (or anyone else for that matter) feels discouraged? She had to conquer her fear and abhorrence. Obviously if she was completely incapable of doing it then Satoru would've carried her over, but I think we can agree that if she really was incapable of walking over a pile of crap and a swarm of bugs, she wouldn't be there anyway. (Then again, if I was there my first reaction would've been parting the guano and making a path through it, but I guess that would've been too easy a solution. Plus it could've disturbed the bugs.)

Seriously, from the way people talk about this scene, one would think she was throwing a hissy fit and kept stalling the team for hours, instead of freaking out for a couple of minutes, and then going ahead anyway.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

It just makes me wonder whether the anime writers have diverted from the novel in their characterization of Saki during this arc. While she was never as powerful as her friends during adolescence, she wasn't without abilities as we could see in scenes like the search for Maria and Satoru when she motored around on that snowboard.

They didn't really deviate from the book as far as her character is concerned, though obviously there's a ton of dialogue and internal narration/thought processes being cut that make the whole thing a bit different. Saki isn't particularly great with her power, has never been. But she's not any worse, power-wise, here than she normally is or used to be.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

But she was often portrayed as brave when she led them across the Barrier or struck out to find Maria and Mamoru. That side of her personality seems to have been buried in this arc, at least until she reached the laboratory. She certainly still has strengths like stoicism and perseverance.

She is still brave. Why do you think she isn't? She may have had moments of weakness but she did make it through all the guano, bugs, cockroaches*, hugely grotesque snail things, deadly mite swarms, giant centipedes of doom, all that horror and disgusting things, seeing her companion die, not knowing if Satoru is safe or even alive... she made it through all, got the psycho buster and got out of underground. What is this if not bravery?

*I like to think I have a certain amount of mental fortitude, but if there was a swarm of giant cockroaches between me and the MacGuffin for saving the world, I think I would need a big strong man or woman to carry me over them while I freak out and cry. Snakes, snails, spiders, larvae, bugs, no problem, but cockroaches... just no. (I have enough problems with the smaller ones, I don't even want to think about giant ones!)

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

But again I don't really care so much about these issues as those surrounding her on-again/off-again powers. She seems to have powers only when the writers decide she needs to do something like blow a hole in a rock wall.

But what is your problem with the portrayal of her power? The only thing in this episode related to that was Inui killing the first giant mukade and not her, which made sense because 1) Inui was in a better position to see the mukade, 2) as a professional "shinigami" aka bakenezumi killer, he's stronger than her, has better reflexes and more fight experience. He's technically a soldier while Saki is a civilian.

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I think it's important for everyone to remember...

Leaders are not born, they are made and crafted by their experiences.

SERIOUSLY. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Snakes, snails, spiders, larvae, bugs, no problem, but cockroaches... just no. (I have enough problems with the smaller ones, I don't even want to think about giant ones!)

Cockroaches are pretty much the only thing in the world my Vietnam veteran father is afraid of. Of course, that dates all the way back to when he was two or three, since his older siblings used to chase him around the house with giant cockroaches in hand when he was a toddler.

I don't mind cockroaches much, but I am deathly terrified of spiders. If we're ever trapped in a cave, you can handle the spiders and I'll kill the cockroaches.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's your opinion, not a fact.

I have to say that, if Saki doesn't have any romantic feelings for Maria, she's kind of leading her on. Passionately making out with, and even having sex with, someone that's in love with you but to whom you don't return the feelings? That's kind of evil, Saki. Not even Chiyuri from Accel World sends those mixed of signals. My 31st century waifu can't be this much of a femme fatale.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I know it's counter-intuitive, but some people decline with age in some respects. Going through a lot of hellish experiences can do that to a person.

The old saying "Whatever doesn't kill me will only serve to make me stronger" is true sometimes. But sometimes the opposite is true.

Interesting you say this, because I've had the impression ever since the beginning of this new story arc that Saki's become somewhat broken down from her traumatic adolescence. It's not at all uncommon in reality for people who go through hellish upbringings to remain strong for however long that strength is required, then crumble afterwards. I know someone who sometimes laments the fact that he feels he isn't as strong as he was a child. He grew up in a violent, crime-ridden ghetto and lived through a rather nightmarish childhood; he endured because he had to and described himself as being a tough kid, but after moving to a much cleaner, nicer town at age 14 and finally finding himself safe and secure, the stress he'd gone through up to that point hit him more sharply and he found it difficult to experience any kind of stress without becoming completely frazzled.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Interesting you say this, because I've had the impression ever since the beginning of this new story arc that Saki's become somewhat broken down from her traumatic adolescence. It's not at all uncommon in reality for people who go through hellish upbringings to remain strong for however long that strength is required, then crumble afterwards. I know someone who sometimes laments the fact that he feels he isn't as strong as he was a child. He grew up in a violent, crime-ridden ghetto and lived through a rather nightmarish childhood; he endured because he had to and described himself as being a tough kid, but after moving to a much cleaner, nicer town at age 14 and finally finding himself safe and secure, the stress he'd gone through up to that point hit him more sharply and he found it difficult to experience any kind of stress without becoming completely frazzled.

The last part applies to me a bit as well. Not necessarily just with stress but with my overall ability and "worth" if you will. But to be absolutely objective, I think a lot of it is just nostalgia and the super obvious fact that you do lose certain things, mostly those related with the brain such as memory, psychological adaptability and creativity, as you age. In return for experience. It's not always a fair trade, and at some point in life, the deficit is guaranteed to set in. But it mostly is. And a stable mind - not a strong (in face of dangerous crime sort of thing) mind, mind you, as that's more Satoru's game, but a stable mind, one that doesn't go awry over traumatic events - should really not display PTSD symptoms to the degree Saki is.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

And yes, please drop the ED. It was a bad idea to begin with, but seeing it pop up the way things are happening now is borderline travesty.

I'll repeat my comment from an earlier thread. Kanazawa is in the process of releasing a number of albums at the moment. I have little doubt that the continued use of this ED has a lot more to do with Sony than anything having to do with Shin Sekai Yori.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And how is a man with a gun any more dangerous than a cantus-using human that is able to kill you with a thought, wants you dead, and you literally can't hurt him?

I'm not arguing against that. There's clearly nothing she can do against the fiend. I was talking about the various creatures that attacked her in this episode.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Here is what I think this anime episode is trying to do. It's trying to heighten the tension by showing how frazzled and somewhat shell-shocked the main character is.

I think that what it's aiming for is a viewer reaction of "Wow, even Saki is starting to crack a bit! Things are really getting extremely dire and we are heading for a great conclusion!" Unfortunately, the episode clearly missed the mark a bit for many viewers, resulting in "Man, what the hell is wrong with Saki? She's supposed to be stronger than this!"

Then I think pairing her up with three complete badasses (though I'm still unsure we can call Satoru that) was a mistake, because it makes her appear weaker than she is. We don't have a proper point of comparison anymore. All the people she met in this arc were strong, save for the two survivors at the hospital who were completely gone.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I know it's counter-intuitive, but some people decline with age in some respects. Going through a lot of hellish experiences can do that to a person.

The old saying "Whatever doesn't kill me will only serve to make me stronger" is true sometimes. But sometimes the opposite is true.

That's true. However, we have been told by Tomiko that Saki is the opposite! She was able to remain the same even after discovering the horrifying truth about their society. She also sort of overcame Shun's death at the very end of episode ten, where she decided she would survive no matter what (afterwards her memories were altered with so we don't know how she would have acted). She was able to accept the fact she would never see Maria again and continue living on.

But ever since she found out Maria was dead, I feel like she's been starting to break down. She took the news very badly and hasn't been able to get over it. I can't remember anything else affecting her that much. That's where her character turned around for me. She's kind of been lost in a daze ever since... and the Shun thing is not helping. Neither is the fact the "fiend" is Maria's son (daughter?). She would have probably let herself get killed if Satoru hadn't brought her back to her senses in episode 21.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Again, I think the impression we're supposed to get here is that even Saki's hope and resolve is dwindling. That the youthful "I'll never quit, I'll never give in, and I'll never say die!" passion of the character is slowly being crushed by the harshness of her reality.

This is probably setting up either a very tragic end, or an epic comeback. Sometimes a narrative breaks down a character and makes him or her look a bit pathetic in order to make their eventual comeback that much sweeter.

Maybe that's what we're in for here.

I hope she will rebound then. That would be the ultimate proof Tomiko was right about her. When she finally faces Yakomaru, I want her to stand tall. Maybe finally remembering Shun will give her the mental push she needs.

The preview gives me a good feeling. Satoru is now the one who needs to be protected from doing something reckless, and only Saki can save him now. I'm afraid she will want to save the kid from Satoru instead though, which may result in Satoru getting killed (god, no!)... I can't shake the feeling he's going to die.

[relentlessflame]

I deleted a bunch of posts because they either:

a) were referencing the novels without properly-labelled spoiler tags
b) were quoting the novel without any sort of English translation
c) were referring to external material not shown in the anime without properly-labelled spoiler tags
d) were replies to posts that featured any of the above

Please consult the Forum Rules and the Spoiler Policy for more information about what can be posted. Some of these topics may be better-suited for the Spoiler & Speculation thread (where novel spoilers can be discussed).