[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Renall]

Right but, your point was whether Nanjo was fooled. Why try to fool Nanjo when he's an accomplice? It isn't needed. Nobody else seems to have a clue about determining time of death, so they all trust him on that, meaning there's no reason to give him "help" to confuse the issue. He'd be the only person who could even know.

[GreyZone]

Did Battler ever enter the room?

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Quick question to EP 1 about Hideyoshi and Eva.
They were alive at 7 yet in the Manga the clock said 7:30 when the smell came in.(Kinzo)
Nanjo said Hideyoshi is dead for about an hour.
Of course Nanjo could have lied seeing him as the Accomplice.
Yet, Hideyoshi was in the tub with the shower being on and on hot.
Hot water speeds up Rigor Mortis and allows to help fake the time of death.

Nanjo: "No signs of postmortem lividity... Rigor mortis hasn't begun either".

Funny, because Wikipedia says postmortem lividity and rigor mortis are the same thing. Not sure if it's Ryuukishi's error, Witch-hunt's, Wikipedia's.

Anyway, the hot water trick would only be useful if the corpse were observed after rigor mortis had already been produced by it. And that's not the case for Hideyoshi.

Originally Posted by Uberzaki

I guess I'll have to accept the not-invincible-argument, although since Rosa is an accomplice it seems to be an excuse to keep most of the characters in one place.

Remember, the puzzle itself was about never having more wolves in one place than sheep. It would suggest that everyone staying together would make the wolves unable to act. Yet Rosa, apparently obsessed with "wolves" is the one who always initiates the split-ups. A while back I observed that if the "wolves" consist of ShKanon, Genji, Gohda, and Rosa (Nanjo and Kumasawa are actually not at all necessary as accomplices in EP2), Rosa twice engineered groups that had wolves outnumber sheep. First she sent Kanon and Gohda after Jessica (2v1), then she banished Shannon, Genji, Gohda, Kumasawa, and Nanjo (3v2).

This of course makes sense from Yasu's motivation as well, as it's pretty hard to create any kind of mystery if you and everyone else is in the same place.

Although a great deal of my confidence in this interpretation was undermined from Our Confessions.

And not exactly part of the wolf and sheep puzzle discussion, but it just dawned on me that Yasu couldn't know that George would volunteer to go with the servants. Sacrificing Genji was probably the original plan, or, if she suspected George volunteering, at least the backup plan.

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Did Battler ever enter the room?

No. He was in the hallway the whole time.

[battle22]

http://07th-expansion.net/Cgi/clip/clip.cgi
Can anyone translate if new When They Cry is really announced?

[AuraTwilight]

Er...that looks like Rose Guns Days Season 2, to me.

[Wanderer]

I'll do my best. Corrections welcome.

--------------------------

僕がテレビでドラマ見ても、大抵の場合、“同業者アイ”が働いてしまって、面白い面白くないじゃなく、“シ ナリオが上手いな”とか“それが見せたい絵だったのね”みたいなシナリオ技術的なものを見てしまうのですが ……。

今日の相棒は面白かった！！！
まだ興奮が覚めません。
うーーん、本当に面白かった！！

畜生畜生スゴイスゴイ！　ヤバイよ胸が熱くなる！
“なく頃に”のプロット作り、もっかい練り直すぜ！！

When I watch a TV drama, I always end up viewing it as another writer's "work", not looking at whether it's enjoyable or not, but as a technical thing- "is it a good scenario?" or "ah, this is the 'picture' they wanted to show me."...But...

Today's 'partner' was really enjoyable!!!
I'm still exited.
Maaaan... it really was enjoyable!!!

Dammit dammit, so amazing! Uh oh, my passion is burning!
I'm gonna try making another When They Cry plot!!

------------------------

So, yeah, sounds like it's gonna happen. Anyone know if this summer's release of Rose Guns Days is its last installment?

[battle22]

Thanks Wanderer.
Damn I'm kinda excited XD.

[erneiz_hyde]

minor corrections:
まだ興奮が覚めません

This actually means "I'm still excited"

and the うーーん at the end isn't the "no" ううん, but the noise you make when "holding up excitement".

[Wanderer]

Yeah, I get it now- I misinterpreted how 覚める was being used.

Now it makes perfect sense. I re-edited it.

Thanks.

[LyricalAura]

For more context, "Partner" (Aibou) is the name of a long-running detective drama.

[Golden Bug-Hunter]

Excellent news. Made my day.

[Uberzaki]

b-b-b-but I've only started reading through Umineko again! And I don't think I've even solved it half-way! The game that I can never win is that dream prospect for me, as a gamer, but in such a case I would only ever want or need one!

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I'll do my best. Corrections welcome.

--------------------------

僕がテレビでドラマ見ても、大抵の場合、“同業者アイ”が働いてしまって、面白い面白くないじゃなく、“シ ナリオが上手いな”とか“それが見せたい絵だったのね”みたいなシナリオ技術的なものを見てしまうのですが ……。

今日の相棒は面白かった！！！
まだ興奮が覚めません。
うーーん、本当に面白かった！！

畜生畜生スゴイスゴイ！　ヤバイよ胸が熱くなる！
“なく頃に”のプロット作り、もっかい練り直すぜ！！

When I watch a TV drama, I always end up viewing it as another writer's "work", not looking at whether it's enjoyable or not, but as a technical thing- "is it a good scenario?" or "ah, this is the 'picture' they wanted to show me."...But...

Today's 'partner' was really enjoyable!!!
I'm still exited.
Maaaan... it really was enjoyable!!!

Dammit dammit, so amazing! Uh oh, my passion is burning!
I'm gonna try making another When They Cry plot!!

------------------------

So, yeah, sounds like it's gonna happen. Anyone know if this summer's release of Rose Guns Days is its last installment?

Unless there's a change of plans, it was mentioned before in his blog that Rose Guns Days would go up to season 4 (winter)

[haguruma]

Just another minor thing:
“なく頃に”のプロット作り、もっかい練り直すぜ！！ would be closer to "Let's go and revise the plot structure of "When they cry" once again!!"
Nerinaosu means to work something over and make it better, so this doesn't immediately imply a NEW When they Cry, just that Mr.07 is apparently reworking some of the elements of that universe again. Last time it brought us witches, let's see what it gives us this time.

[RandomAvatarFan]

He did mention that he might try to rework Umineko. But, I think if he's reworking the WTC universe, he might want to reveal it in a new scenario. Or, one can hope.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

For more context, "Partner" (Aibou) is the name of a long-running detective drama.

Ah that makes sense. I didn't even know that myself. Now I kinda wanna see this episode that impressed Ryukishi so much.

Originally Posted by haguruma

Just another minor thing:
“なく頃に”のプロット作り、もっかい練り直すぜ！！ would be closer to "Let's go and revise the plot structure of "When they cry" once again!!"
Nerinaosu means to work something over and make it better, so this doesn't immediately imply a NEW When they Cry, just that Mr.07 is apparently reworking some of the elements of that universe again. Last time it brought us witches, let's see what it gives us this time.

I did think it might read that way (thanks for the confirmation/clarification), but I still don't see how "revising the plot structure of the When They Cry universe" could mean something other than a new When They Cry. Considering the content of the rest if his message, I'm pretty certain that he at least wants to make a new When They Cry. My only concern is whether Ryukishi's imagination still has the creative resources to give Umineko a respectable sequel, and I wouldn't be too surprised if he backs off of it because he can't come up with a new concept that satisfies him.

So yeah, while it seems likely, I wouldn't hold my breath until he says something more concrete.

[tantei okuoku]

SWEET. I Really LOVE Rose Gun Days, but more when they cry would be really nice, and more importantly more mystery titles from ryu most likely

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I did think it might read that way (thanks for the confirmation/clarification), but I still don't see how "revising the plot structure of the When They Cry universe" could mean something other than a new When They Cry. Considering the content of the rest if his message, I'm pretty certain that he at least wants to make a new When They Cry.

Well, I think we just need to remember how long they milked the Higurashi cow and tweaked and twiddled here and there on the Higurashi part of "When They Cry". Could also be that he is simply planning some more additions to Umineko, as the manga is coming close to an end, a bridge work between several of the earlier entries, or simply some bonus stuff he wants to throw into Rose Gun Days.

Btw. has anybody else already read how the scene of Battler's realization in the ???? Part of EP5 turned out in the manga? Didn't have the time or money to get it till now.
I kind of liked it how they inserted a young Battler making the promise to "Beatrice" back then, it makes the whole scene a little bit clearer about what he actually realized when he said that "The goal wasn't down in Hell, but at the summit of mount purgatory where the eternal maiden Beatrice awaits."

And I think I finally understand what the hell the hint in that scene was and feel pretty dumb. Battler awakens and finds Beatrice having been reduced to a pile of ashes with only the tattered remains of a golden butterfly remaining on top, of which he can take one wing and hold it to his heart. So that golden butterfly was apparently a hint towards the damn broach the whole time.

[RandomAvatarFan]

Not enough creative resources? What do you mean by that?

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan

Not enough creative resources? What do you mean by that?

I think that was referring to the fact that many people already complained about some strained efforts to connect Higurashi and Umineko, as well as Umineko itself being a little farfetched in the end. If he really was to write another part that was connected to the whole Kakera universe, you never know the impact it might have on what came before.

I don't know where I stand on that, as I see Umineko as the more mature work compared to Higurashi and actually do prefer it, but I have to agree that it is always risky to create a too grand universe. I wouldn't mind him going on with the concept, but I also fear that it might turn out repetitive if he doesn't give it a completely new twist this time around.