2012-08-22, 13:39 | Link #201 | |
Ikarechimattaze!
Join Date: Mar 2012
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2013-04-05, 17:24 | Link #202 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I'm currently on Vol 3 of the LN (Christmas Eve) and all I could thinking about is how much of a masochist Kyousuke seems to be for putting up with all the psychological abuse even after going above and beyond in helping her. Granted she might be tsundere for him with a closet brother complex that she's subconsciously trying to suppress, but you can only excuse so far before it just feels like a convenient excuse. In some ways it reminds me of a wife who keeps defending her drunken husband no matter how many times he beats her. Just because he only happens to attack her when he's not in full control of himself still doesn't excuse the fact that he attacked her. I can only hope that this is a case of "the greater the sin, the greater the redemption." Wow, I didn't expect to write so much. I guess I had alot bottled inside. |
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2013-04-05, 17:31 | Link #203 |
大巧不工
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Kirino actually cares much for her regular friends (see season 1, Kirino and Ayase).
her otaku friends know and accept the ugly sides of Kirino: as fellow otakus I think they understand Kirino's struggles (but does not mean they like it, but they will forgive her). As for Kirino/Kyousuke... well, Kyousuke is obviously a siscon Spoiler for LN:
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2013-04-05, 18:55 | Link #204 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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You are from the West, aren't you? Because from a Eastern reader's POV, it's not that hard to understand. 1st, Kyousuke is a M - that's for sure 2nd, as a siscon, he subconsciously wanted to make up with Kirino. That's why he did all that. And 3rd, in a Eastern cultural, it's entire possible to raise the first child to be that protective of their younger sibling. No matter how much they fought, the older one would feel the need to help their younger, at least because of family's responsible. |
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2013-04-05, 20:09 | Link #205 | |
Incognito
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: At the end of the abyss
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more to be added when i get my thoughts organized. prepare for epic analyzations from sherlock holmes. (jk)
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2013-04-05, 22:53 | Link #206 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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And to be honest, I dont see how it could be that hard to understand her behavior. What exactly that you guys fail to understand? |
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2013-04-05, 23:15 | Link #207 | |
Incognito
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: At the end of the abyss
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Edit: Interesting to see slight development from season 1 Kirino and season 2 Kirino. Noticeable differences: Grabs his hand and drags him through Akihabara for hours too lol. Gives him an eroge that she didn't play yet and acknowledges that he helped her. Picks up when he calls her cell. Takes him to Akihabara instead of Kuroneko and Saori. Barely hits him and yells at him. Season 1 episode 1 had yelling and hitting(kicking and slapping) in it lol. More to come later. Sad that people think Kyousuke is a doormat/dog/slave/servant of Kirino. T.T Few people are willing to lose their dignity for another person. If you want to something for someone, do you do it expecting a reward, or do you do it because you want to?
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Last edited by finalfury; 2013-04-06 at 18:21. Reason: salvage kyousuke reputation because he's cool |
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2013-04-07, 01:49 | Link #208 | |
...Is that so?
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Queensland, Australia
Age: 44
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It is possible to do things altruistically like you say, but the average person considers being treated with the standard amount of courtesy as "normal", not as a "reward". |
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2013-04-07, 08:07 | Link #209 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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Normal is subjective. Don't expect anything in return, at all. That's how you separate the good man from the average.
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Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-04-07 at 08:28. |
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2013-05-09, 20:02 | Link #210 | |
Banned
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This will probably be the last thing I ever speak about her. I nearly dropped this show because of her goddamn annoying attitudes that makes my blood boils so much |
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2013-05-09, 22:54 | Link #211 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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If you hate her that much, the door is this way. Go out and don't come back here. Seriously, don't use the word 'bitch' so careless. PS : How about consider that this is partly Kyousuke's fault that she turned out this way? |
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2013-05-10, 02:43 | Link #212 | |
Imouto Lover x3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Germany
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2013-05-10, 02:58 | Link #213 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
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Spoiler for Comparison to the novels:
Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-10 at 04:48. Reason: spoiler for comparison, just to be safe |
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2013-05-10, 04:53 | Link #214 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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Yeah, ever since the first anime (which was my starting point), I've always taken Kirino's "bitchiness" as a sign of her insecurity and conflicting feelings. I know that some people feel really strongly that "that doesn't make it okay!" (and if this were real life, clearly it wouldn't), but I was able to relate to her character with that understanding. And those tiny glimpses we got where we saw behind the curtain were that much sweeter because of it.
I can definitely understand why some people have no patience for her... but somehow I was always able to make some sort of sense of everything that was clear to me, even if it wasn't spelled right out in the show proper.
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2013-05-19, 21:04 | Link #216 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I'd also argue that while family might put up with it (and might be more inclined to do so in a non-American culture), its still unhealthy to do so. Because at least as an assumption they'd want her to be able to have normal relationships with other people (and although this is decidedly normative, they'd probably want her to marry, and why would anyone marry Kirino with the way she behaves?) I'd say the most unrealistic thing about the series is how successful she is, despite how utterly repugnant her demonstrated social skills are. |
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2013-05-19, 21:56 | Link #217 | |
Mishaguji-sama
Join Date: Oct 2010
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2013-05-19, 22:12 | Link #218 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Spoiler for LN Vol 10:
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2013-05-20, 01:15 | Link #219 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Eh, that's significantly an informed ability, we're told she does, we never really see it, and I'd say the way she treats her famiy would realistically spill over into at least her personal relationships. Note that we do actually see that with how she treats the circle, and even with Ayase.
I'd say its a pretty contrived aspect of her character that we're supposed to accept the extreme dissonance there. Its pretty dysfunctional, and a big source of the personal dislike I have for tsundere characters in general. They'd be utterly ghastly to date or even be friends with. |
2013-05-20, 02:29 | Link #220 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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(And that aside, I also think that, even in real life, siblings tend to be exposed to each others' ugly sides as they grow up. They both clearly still have growing up to do. We shouldn't necessarily judge them as if they were fully-formed adults.) Quote:
So I don't think you should see them as if they were a realistic person behaving in a certain way to you personally (as if you were the protagonist). The whole thing works because it's fiction and you're given a glimpse at both sides of the coin. Ultimately, the "reward" is at the end of the process when the breakthrough happens and the character is finally able to be honest (or you see those glimpses shine through). If you're constantly dwelling on their bad attitude, without focusing on what they truly mean deep down, I'd say you're missing the core of what a tsundere character is about. (This isn't to say that there aren't people who are somewhat "tsundere" in real life -- there are. But even that is a little bit different than the character archetype/trope in anime and the like.)
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