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Old 2013-06-27, 18:45   Link #4021
Rampant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayid View Post
I am not criticizing you, I only say why I have a problem to take this story too seriously and apply to much real life logic on it.

I ennoy it the way it is presented by the Author. I don't like to search too much behind it.
The author complains about unrealistic, consequence-free endings in great detail. You can interpret the story however you like, but I can't see how regarding it as completely disconnected from reality is enjoying it the way it's presented by the author.
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Old 2013-06-27, 18:51   Link #4022
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayid View Post
I am not criticizing you, I only say why I have a problem to take this story too seriously and apply to much real life logic on it.
The only probably I have with this argument is that it can be taken (by others) to mean that the work is not worthy of detailed consideration or analysis. I personally think that does a bit of a disservice to the writing, which is pretty measured and balanced in most of its portrayals of things (including the way the story ended). While obviously recognizing that this is a work of fiction, I think there's enough meat there to warrant conversation for those who want to have it. That doesn't mean everyone will need to participate, obviously.
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Old 2013-06-27, 18:57   Link #4023
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The only probably I have with this argument is that it can be taken (by others) to mean that the work is not worthy of detailed consideration or analysis. I personally think that does a bit of a disservice to the writing, which is pretty measured and balanced in most of its portrayals of things (including the way the story ended). While obviously recognizing that this is a work of fiction, I think there's enough meat there to warrant conversation for those who want to have it. That doesn't mean everyone will need to participate, obviously.
It is just my opinion Relentlessflame, and nothing more. Feel free to interpret it the way you want.

EDIT: I am not trying to do a disservice to the writting at all. I only state why I have a problem with thinking why it should end like: 'them being separeted from each other because in real life this is also happens'?

But given the fact that this is fiction. And much things in it don't make sense. I find it too depressing to say it ends like that: 'They will not be together forever'. That is why i say if we start to apply real life logic to conclude what happens after the epilogue. You have to start first with eroge and her love for kyousuke and not with 'will they be together after the ending'?

EDIT 2: This is why i like to interpret the story the way it is presented. With it's hints (hidden meanings) and it's story from the start (volume 1 till volume 12).
The author did a great job on that. Stopping the human brain to apply logic to a story, that is impossible. To understand the story, you have to use your
logic indeed. I am not pointing to that kind of real life logic. I only find it weird to think that all this what happend between them. Stops at volume 12 and
they are normal siblings again forever (without any hidden agenda). And the reason is because in 'real life it also happens'? sorry, but i don't buy this. If
this was an adult book. I would consider it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
The author complains about unrealistic, consequence-free endings in great detail. You can interpret the story however you like, but I can't see how regarding it as completely disconnected from reality is enjoying it the way it's presented by the author.
I have added some commentary on my post before.

Last edited by Sakura_Tsuki; 2013-06-27 at 19:38.
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Old 2013-06-27, 20:03   Link #4024
Rampant
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Originally Posted by mayid View Post
I only find it weird to think that all this what happend between them. Stops at volume 12 and they are normal siblings again forever (without any hidden agenda). And the reason is because in 'real life it also happens'? sorry, but i don't buy this. If this was an adult book. I would consider it.
I have no idea who you are arguing against. No one is saying this.
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Old 2013-06-27, 20:07   Link #4025
tommythecat
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I don't think you are doing a disservice to the writing Mayid, in fact because you are so adamant in your feelings about the ending show that it can be viewed as "clear," as far as the intended destination of their relationship shows just how well crafted it seems to be.

I don't agree that it is so cut and dry as all that but I've never had a problem with people viewing the ending in their own way. The debate I spark is all in service of the LN we all clearly enjoy, I enjoy digging down deep to see if there is a deep hidden message or an alternate way to view events. That can sometimes make it sound like I don't think the ending you view as possible is but that isn't my intention in any way.

I will say one thing though about the authors answers to questions given in interviews, I think too much stock is given to them. He could say that Kyousuke and Kirino go to space and fight aliens but it doesn't make it true until he writes a novel explaining such. His intentions for the ending may very well have been the ending most people see but how it is written gives enough room for discussion I think and interviews are not part of the novel so they can't be viewed in the same light as the story itself.
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Old 2013-06-27, 21:26   Link #4026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
I will say one thing though about the authors answers to questions given in interviews, I think too much stock is given to them. He could say that Kyousuke and Kirino go to space and fight aliens but it doesn't make it true until he writes a novel explaining such. His intentions for the ending may very well have been the ending most people see but how it is written gives enough room for discussion I think and interviews are not part of the novel so they can't be viewed in the same light as the story itself.
You're constructing a bit of a straw man with the alien example; I don't think the author has ever said anything that implies anything that isn't actually written in the text itself. The only thing the interviews point to is the author's intentions with the metaphors and symbolism in the epilogue: that he set Kirino on a good path for the future, and that life counselling relates to their new shared secret. This doesn't really preclude any interpretation of what happens down the road, but it provides a small clue about what the symbolism means.

You can choose to ignore this information, but it's a bit suspect to do so given that it comes directly out of the author's mouth. If you ignore evidence to arrive at your conclusion, it makes your conclusion less convincing to others.
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Old 2013-06-27, 21:29   Link #4027
Ihaxlikenoob
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Is this Death of the Author at work?
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Old 2013-06-27, 21:40   Link #4028
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Ihaxlikenoob View Post
Is this Death of the Author at work?
Well, if interviews with the author about that specific text are to count in that, I suppose. If he were saying things that are truly "para-text", then I may agree, but here I would argue that he was only further supporting what was already the predominant interpretation of what the epilogue suggests. You're not inferring from culture or context (which is what Death of the Author is mostly talking about), but from the author's own stated opinion at the time. To say the author is "dead" to that extent seems rather extreme (and borders on "selective listening", in my view).
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Old 2013-06-27, 22:17   Link #4029
tommythecat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You're constructing a bit of a straw man with the alien example; I don't think the author has ever said anything that implies anything that isn't actually written in the text itself. The only thing the interviews point to is the author's intentions with the metaphors and symbolism in the epilogue: that he set Kirino on a good path for the future, and that life counselling relates to their new shared secret. This doesn't really preclude any interpretation of what happens down the road, but it provides a small clue about what the symbolism means.

You can choose to ignore this information, but it's a bit suspect to do so given that it comes directly out of the author's mouth. If you ignore evidence to arrive at your conclusion, it makes your conclusion less convincing to others.
I didn't say I'm ignoring it but it doesn't manifest a clear and concise ending just because he mentions it out of the confines of the novel. He says it's a Kirino end and it's about her happiness. Nothing suggests that her happiness is specifically one thing or another outside of loving her brother and not losing her friends.
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Old 2013-06-27, 23:40   Link #4030
VORTIA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
There is a real difference between romantic feelings and preteen sibling infatuation. Romantic feelings of love are pretty much none existent during that phase of life outside of kids liking each other and the only way they know that is expressed is through marriage because they want to be together forever(sound familiar). The elementary school promise of marriage is a pretty common trope in anime.
You're right, pre-teen sibling infatuation is different from actual romantic feelings. It's also true that for 99+% of us, those feelings don't merge into romantic/sexual feelings in our teens. We don't marry our sisters in our teens, either. I think it's silly to blow off the precedent strongly established in the novel end to embrace an idea about the characters that is built entirely on wishful assumption and a lack of evidence to the contrary.

Quote:
Saying there is no evidence to support a tamer relationship going forward for them is pretty disingenuous.
Where's the evidence in the story?
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Old 2013-06-28, 02:30   Link #4031
Drakkar77
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I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think everything in this story is possible.

Enough said.

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-06-28 at 23:37.
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Old 2013-06-28, 05:31   Link #4032
Wilshere
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The final preview is out, Sakurai gets mentioned, looking forward to it. Oh, and Kirino is still cute.
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Old 2013-06-28, 05:36   Link #4033
kentasaiba
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Kyousuke will stay with Kirino 4 ever. When he es 40, Kirino will berate and offend him. But Kyousuke is a masochist, there are many such guys who stays with a impulsive wife even they are unlucky with it.
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Old 2013-06-28, 05:43   Link #4034
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
The final preview is out, Sakurai gets mentioned, looking forward to it. Oh, and Kirino is still cute.
Just saw the preview. Ooo yesss, definitly a flashback episode. So this is definitly volume 11. But the problem is how will it end? Do we get a cliffhanger ending? Can they animate volume 11 in one episode? Or will they leave the rejection of Sakurai and the Manami part about her not wanting the siblings to be lovers for the ova's?

I hope they animate volume 11 in one episode and keep the 3 ova's only for volume 12. Can't wait to see that animated. Kirinooooooooo, the wedding, kisss oo yesss......

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Originally Posted by kentasaiba View Post
Kyousuke will stay with Kirino 4 ever. When he es 40, Kirino will berate and offend him. But Kyousuke is a masochist, there are many such guys who stays with a impulsive wife even they are unlucky with it.
If it is Kyousuke then he will stay 4 ever with Kirino. If we look at the whole story his patience with Kirino (the situation) is really admirable ahahhaha.

Last edited by Sakura_Tsuki; 2013-06-28 at 06:31.
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Old 2013-06-28, 05:45   Link #4035
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
The final preview is out, Sakurai gets mentioned, looking forward to it. Oh, and Kirino is still cute.
Is there a youtube link to it? The main site seems to be down.

Edit: nevermind it's working now.
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:02   Link #4036
Drakkar77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayid View Post
I think we were discussing here and not insulting people . And no one said that everything in this story is 100% fake.
You didn't miss something; you read too much into what I said, sometimes a message means exactly what is written and has no hidden meanings. People see what they want though, and I cannot fault for them that ^^, it's only human nature after all.

Edit: What I'm say is it might be fiction, but it's not science fiction.

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-06-28 at 23:41.
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:10   Link #4037
Wilshere
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It's happening!!!!
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Old 2013-06-28, 11:11   Link #4038
Drakkar77
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
The final preview is out, Sakurai gets mentioned, looking forward to it. Oh, and Kirino is still cute.
Hmm it seems that I'm miss a critical link. Can you please post it?

Edit: I'm terrible at finding stuff on the Internet.

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-06-28 at 23:44.
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Old 2013-06-29, 04:31   Link #4039
Sakura_Tsuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkar77 View Post
Hmm it seems that I'm miss a critical link. Can you please post it?

Edit: I'm terrible at finding stuff on the Internet.
You can find the preview at this place:

Spoiler for preview:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkar77 View Post
Thank you very much. *chuckles* Now to go learn Japanese...and get over this feeling like "you ask for it, idiot" *extremely red face*

Edit: Hmmm Google translator works too I guess. Thanks again
You're welcome

Last edited by Sakura_Tsuki; 2013-06-29 at 18:24.
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Old 2013-06-29, 05:00   Link #4040
Drakkar77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayid View Post
You can find the preview at this place:

Spoiler for preview:
Thank you very much. *chuckles* Now to go learn Japanese...and get over this feeling like "you ask for it, idiot" *extremely red face*

Edit: Hmmm Google translator works too I guess. Thanks again
Edit: Thank you. Is that a picture of a young Ayase with an eye patch?

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-06-29 at 15:30.
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