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Old 2013-07-19, 18:05   Link #861
Suomi
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Can I just say that I love all the male fanservice in this show.
Even if it's not sexualized in quite the same way as a lot of anime girl shows are, I still love that. Haru's eyes and abs. Yum.
I sort of ship Haru/Rin already, though Haru/Mako could make a nice ship also. I'm really enjoying the introduction of Rei also, because he's hilarious and his pure adoration of Haru's swimming beauty is great.
I also appreciate that the show is targeted at females in some ways, but not in the traditional way as with a female-dominated show. It's unusual.
I'm waiting every week for Tuesday to come so the next episode will come out...
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Old 2013-07-19, 20:36   Link #862
leongsh
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This is one of those anime that I watch mainly to read the reactions thereafter. The very good animation of swimming scenes helps although there's still limited amount of it so far - likely to cost a lot of time and money to have extended stretches of the action.
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Old 2013-07-19, 21:20   Link #863
GDiddy
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
i'd totally ship Makoto and Gou.
Same here!

I think they'd be cute together. Besides, Nagisa has his new waifu with Rei the BellyFlopper now.

I'm totally surprised at how much I really liked Rei, considering that he didn't stand out at all in the previews...
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Old 2013-07-20, 00:01   Link #864
mistress_kisara
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I saw this in Tumblr and I can't stop laughing! XD

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Actual amazon product: http://www.amazon.com/Nike-Cheyenne-...rhf_se_p_tnr_1
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Old 2013-07-20, 00:08   Link #865
Irenesharda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post

Ama-chan strikes me as pretty feminine. She's no less feminine than any of the adult female characters in Majestic Prince, imo.

Gou isn't particularly feminine, but nor does she make me think tomboy. She's more feminine than a lot of anime female characters, imo.

The thing with both characters is that, yes, they're wrote to be sensible human beings. But sensible human beings can come in a wide range from very feminine to very masculine. There's nothing particularly feminine about, say, a KugRie Tsundere exploding on someone. It's just silly. Thankfully, these female characters aren't like that.
I don't know if they mean that the girls aren't "feminine" per say. Just that they aren't your usual anime (or even Japanese, to a degree) standard of girl. They aren't ultra submissive, nor idiots, nor blank slates, nor personality deprived, nor soft-hearted ditzes, nor yelling tsundere, nor girls with something to prove that will end up being soft and squishy later.

They act like normal girls, that do normal things. Something that is an extremely rare breed in anime. And yet, they wonder why female anime characters don't often do well with the female audience?
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Old 2013-07-20, 01:03   Link #866
germanturkey
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well, it is the same backpack. haha. kyoani really went above and beyond for that.

also, i know why i like makoto. he reminds me of nathan adrian.
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Old 2013-07-20, 03:06   Link #867
MeoTwister5
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I was taking a shower and I suddenly found my self waving off the water in my hair like Haru in the ED.

I'm sure all of you tried it at least once.

Don't lie to me! I'm not the only one doing this! Also this:

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Old 2013-07-20, 03:09   Link #868
Blaat
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Don't lie to me! I'm not the only one doing this!
I'm afraid if I do that I'd lose more of my hair.

*is getting bald at a young age*
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Old 2013-07-20, 03:46   Link #869
Blonto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Your typical male lead in an anime show has romantic interest (in a specific girl, or girls in general) as a core motivation. Lots of well-worn tropes arise from that, meaning that a lot of scenes practically write themselves.
I'm really not sure where you're getting that? Shounen and sports anime from my albeit limited experience tend to have getting better and competitiveness as core motivation. Romance is thrown in more as an afterthought. Occasionally it will be used to motivate the guy to protect someone, however this same motivation tends to be done using friends and family.

Harems aren't much different either. Take the typical harem lead. He's practically castrated and incredibly passive because giving him a romantic motivation would ruin the harem (since harems strive due to indecisiveness).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What characters can you use as references for him?
Only every Kyoani lead ever? Passive stoic with a hint of eccentricity is a trope they're very fond of.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, girls in all-girl shows often have driving motivations that have nothing to do with romance. Consider the girls of Love Live!, or Girls und Panzer, or many a magical girls show. They tend to have passionate goals that they work towards in a certain fashion. I see a little bit of that in Haruka, and his passion for swimming.
This is a fairly recent change. The rise of all-girls show happened due to the fact that the authors realized horny otaku and yuri fanboys would rather watch an all-girls show, than the same show with boys. Strong motivations used to be a guy thing (especially in shounen and sports anime), but now guys are relegated merely to passive, empty self-inserts.
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Old 2013-07-20, 06:40   Link #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
I'm really not sure where you're getting that?
Perhaps "Romance as a core motivation" isn't the best way to convey it. So rather, romance tends to surround the typical anime male lead whether he wants it or not.

This lends itself to all sorts of "easy outs", writing-wise. You guys know what I'm talking about here. They're some of the oldest harem anime cliches in the book.


Quote:
Only every Kyoani lead ever? Passive stoic with a hint of eccentricity is a trope they're very fond of.
Haruka isn't passive. He's very proactive when it comes to his swimming passion. It's not something he has to be dragged into, initially against his will and/or considerable reservations (as is the case with most KyoAni male leads).


Quote:
Strong motivations used to be a guy thing (especially in shounen and sports anime), but now guys are relegated merely to passive, empty self-inserts.
Yes, but like you say, times have changed. And perhaps whoever is writing this is somewhat new, and never handled anybody like, say, DBZ's Goku or Bleach's Ichigo before.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a sad commentary that a male writer would have a hard time writing a male character like Haruka, to the point he'd have to think about female characters to make Haruka work. I'm just trying to explain where the writer might be coming from, because he must be coming from somewhere. There's no reason for the writer to lie about this, after all. So him finding it easier to write Haruka with a heroine template in mind instead of a hero one must be rooted in something.
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Old 2013-07-20, 07:08   Link #871
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After 3 episodes, the lolfactor for this series has worn off for me now. Essentially, I'm feeling the same way about the series like I did for Tamako Market whereby there was a element or two that interested me but what it's largely been so far has been manservice which although was initially funny is kinda boring me now. The characters are not very interesting and two dimensional. Both the teacher and Gou are kinda stereotypical moeblobs and stand in fujioshi character. The male characters are just fanservice for the females. There is a severe lack of swimming or swimming related activities. The visuals although not Hyouka-tier, is great and the dubstep audio does suit the sports theme, but it is severely lacking in meaningful content. I'll still continue to watch it, since the reactions to the show is more entertaining than the show itself, but in the end it's just another Kyoani money grabbing scheme.

Will be looking at Kyoukai no Kanata for Kyoani's next legitimate good series instead.
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Old 2013-07-20, 09:12   Link #872
RainbowMagnet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
The lolfactor for this series has worn off for me now. Essentially, I'm feeling the same way about the series like I did for Tamako Market whereby there was a element or two that interested me but what it's largely been so far has been manservice which although was initially funny is kinda boring me now. The characters are not very interesting and two dimensional. Both the teacher and Gou are kinda stereotypical moeblobs and stand in fujioshi character. The male characters are just fanservice for the females. There is a severe lack of swimming or swimming related activities. The visuals although not Hyouka-tier, is great and the dubstep audio does suit the sports theme, but it is severely lacking in meaningful content. I'll still continue you watching it, since the reactions to the show is more entertaining than the show itself, but in the end it's just another Kyoani money grabbing scheme.

Will be looking at Kyoukai no Kanata for Kyoani's next legitimate good series instead.
I'm not sure if we're watching the same series...

I agree with the rest of your post though. Although I'm still enjoying the series, some of the jokes are starting to wear off. Particularely the Gou/Kou thing.
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Old 2013-07-20, 09:20   Link #873
Pocari_Sweat
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"There is a severe lack of swimming or swimming related activities."

Little focus on the actual swimming element, much focus on male characters stripping and flexing their musclely bodies. See Chihayafuru or Ginga no Kickoff for recent examples on how to do sports anime.

"Kinda stereotypical moeblobs and stand in fujioshi character."

Teacher is a typical airheaded kyoani female adult. From Key adaptations to K-on to Chuunibyou to this, they have been consistently the same. Gou is a standin fujioshi character that just glees in delight everytime a male character strips. Both of them are very two dimensional and not interesting at all.

"Another Kyoani money grabbing scheme."

It's a pretty common criticism that Kyoani is a pretty poor studio when it comes to diversification. Just because they switched from cute girls doing cute things to cute boys doing cute things does not change the fact they are pandering with this one. It's just a different demography.


Now don't get me wrong. There is a lot of polish in this series as with other Kyoani series, but it's severely lacking in substance. I'm liking for the visuals and for the reactions it gets. The sexist/misogynist comments everywhere never gets old in their stupidity.
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Old 2013-07-20, 09:56   Link #874
cyth
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Pocari Sweat, be wary of KyoAni fans citing Hyouka. Also, diversecharadesigns.jpg. They will smack you with that shit until you say you're sorry.
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Old 2013-07-20, 10:11   Link #875
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They can cite Hyouka all they want and I wouldn't care. It may be a fantastic series and one of my favourites of 2012 but exceptions do not really change anything.
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Old 2013-07-20, 10:18   Link #876
kuromitsu
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I still don't understand why some people can't accept this anime for what it is (female-oriented fanservice show) and judge it on that basis instead of whatever else they were expecting (for some weird reason).

1) This is a sports anime as much as Sengoku Otome is a historical anime. It has some nicely animated swimming, yes. So?
2) This anime is not supposed to be about the female characters. (Also, if you're going to use a word at least know what it means and how to spell it.)
3) Anime is in fact a business and KyoAni wants to make money.
4) If you're a guy who doesn't enjoy shows focusing on guys who strip a lot, this show was never meant to appeal to you. You might as well just accept it.
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Old 2013-07-20, 10:21   Link #877
Blonto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Perhaps "Romance as a core motivation" isn't the best way to convey it. So rather, romance tends to surround the typical anime male lead whether he wants it or not.
I don't think you can compare Haruka to harem leads, since Free isn't a harem. Free is slice of life and sports and those genres tend to put little emphasis on romance, often not having any all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Haruka isn't passive. He's very proactive when it comes to his swimming passion. It's not something he has to be dragged into, initially against his will and/or considerable reservations (as is the case with most KyoAni male leads).
He is passive from a storytelling point of view. Pretty much the only drive you would expect from him, the competitive drive, is dead (in the water, harharhar). His only motivation is to not compete, to keep the status quo. That's passive. He is dragged around and told what to do and he has little initiative to do anything on his own that could be relevant to the story. This is typical of male Kyoani protagonists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
Little focus on the actual swimming element, much focus on male characters stripping and flexing their musclely bodies. See Chihayafuru or Ginga no Kickoff for recent examples on how to do sports anime.
While you are undeniably right with your other criticisms, you seem to contradict yourself here. The show is pretty pressured to focus on swimming, since that's the only way to get maaanservice and it features swimming once or twice per episode. The rest is typical highschool antics, since that's like air to Kyoani.

I don't see how fanservice during swimming negates the fact that there's swimming going on. You might not register it as swimming relevant to your interests, but the swimming itself actually isn't fanservicey, considering you can't see much from all the bubbles and water. It's the preparations and the aftermath that produce the most fanservice.
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Old 2013-07-20, 10:31   Link #878
GDiddy
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I still don't understand why some people can't accept this anime for what it is (female-oriented fanservice show) and judge it on that basis instead of whatever else they were expecting (for some weird reason).

1) This is a sports anime as much as Sengoku Otome is a historical anime. It has some nicely animated swimming, yes. So?
2) This anime is not supposed to be about the female characters. (Also, if you're going to use a word at least know what it means and how to spell it.)
3) Anime is in fact a business and KyoAni wants to make money.

This pretty much.


Jesus...ENOUGH ALREADY. Stop analyzing every fucking thing about this show(Is Gou/Kou a fujioshi/ the guys are showing female characteristics/the guys aren't manly enough). I bet none of y'all analyzed the shit out of this like a thesis when K-ON first started.

1. it's a show about swimming that happens to have a male cast. Do people analyze the shit out of Kuroko's Basketball or whatever? Or because this is from KyoAni?

2. Is it the greatest thing ever? No. However, it's better than Tamako Market. And Free is surprisingly pretty good so far. Yeah, the jokes are somewhat old but then again, Haru x Water and Rei doing his bellyfloppin' will never NOT be funny to me but I"m weird.
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Old 2013-07-20, 10:31   Link #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonto View Post
I don't think you can compare Haruka to harem leads, since Free isn't a harem. Free is slice of life and sports and those genres tend to put little emphasis on romance, often not having any all.
I'm not saying that Haruka is comparable to harem leads. In fact, I'm saying quite the contrary. I'm saying that he's very different from harem leads, and that might be why the writer of this show had to use a heroine template in order to write him.

Male harem leads (or characters closely approximating them) are far more common in anime today that male leads in slice of life/sports anime (largely since sports anime is in decline). That's the issue here.


Quote:
He is passive from a storytelling point of view. Pretty much the only drive you would expect from him, the competitive drive, is dead (in the water, harharhar).
That's just flatout inaccurate. He does have a drive to swim, as much as possible. That is very clear in Episode 3. You dangle year-round swimming around his nose and its like dangling a fresh piece of meat around a dog's nose. Once that possibility was there, Haruka became just as gung-ho as anybody else in the swimming club.

That's hardly "wanting the status quo" at all, as the status quo would mean not getting to swim year-round.


In any event, Blonto, if you're going to nitpick my speculative explanations this much, then why don't you put out your ideas as to what the writer meant by saying it was easier to write Haruka as a heroine?
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Old 2013-07-20, 10:34   Link #880
Pocari_Sweat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I still don't understand why some people can't accept this anime for what it is (female-oriented fanservice show) and judge it on that basis instead of whatever else they were expecting (for some weird reason).
I know what I was getting into and it's still pretty mediocre. Just like that Fate/Ilya magical girl spinoff is exactly what it is advertised (shameless loliservice) doesn't automatically give it pass as being good, neither should this.

Quote:
1) This is a sports anime as much as Sengoku Otome is a historical anime.
Then make its non-sport elements interesting then and not so one dimensional. Tari Tari from last season wasn't a really a music anime but its characters and drama were far more emphatical, charming and heartwarming. The same can be said to series like Kids on the Slope and Natsuiro Kiseki despite their problems.

Quote:
2) This anime is not supposed to be about the female characters. (Also, if you're going to use a word at least know what it means and how to spell it.)
Then make the male characters interesting. So far, the male characters have as much depth as the female characters did in K-on.

Quote:
3) Anime is in fact a business and KyoAni wants to make money.
Making money is fine, but the style of series they do is getting really old. Give it some depth and effort like Hyouka and I have zero problems. Or do a completely different genre. It's why I was extremely pleased when Kyoukai no Kanata was announced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonto
While you are undeniably right with your other criticisms, you seem to contradict yourself here. The show is pretty pressured to focus on swimming, since that's the only way to get maaanservice and it features swimming once or twice per episode. The rest is typical highschool antics, since that's like air to Kyoani.

I don't see how fanservice during swimming negates the fact that there's swimming going on. You might not register it as swimming relevant to your interests, but the swimming itself actually isn't fanservicey, considering you can't see much from all the bubbles and water. It's the preparations and the aftermath that produce the most fanservice.
I don't hate swimming at all, and considering I live in Australia which has a very swimming heavy culture it would be weird to do so. But that is irrelevant so you're beating up a strawman here.

I don't necessarily have a problem with it not being an anime about swimming. Tons of sports, games or music animes are like that and very few focus exclusively and substantially on their subject matter. It has about as much swimming as K-on had music or Natsuiro Kiseki was about idols. But that's not necessarily the problem. The problem is like you said the "highschool antics" and what happens elsewhere. It's just... very tiresome, old and unfunny. So if it's not really a sports anime and if it is mediocre as a character-driven narrative, then I only have the visuals and audio and the occassional "Wow" moment (even Tamako Market had a few of these). I'm not sure if that passes as being a good series.

---------------

I also don't recall calling this the worst series of the season or flatout terrible so I'm not sure where the exaggerated hostilities are coming from.
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