2013-08-05, 10:27 | Link #32661 | |
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There's no real way she could retroactively reclaim detective authority after committing murders anyway. Unless you're going to argue that she killed people and then declared herself a detective from that point on... and if you argue that, then all one would have to do is state that she didn't kill Kanon, which is an easy fix (suicide and/or personality suppression, either way Erika didn't cause it).
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2013-08-05, 10:57 | Link #32662 | |
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2013-08-05, 11:04 | Link #32663 |
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[Request: 'From the time I entered the room to the time of the logic error, Battler, Kanon, and I were the only ones who entered or exited the room.'] I acknowledge it. From the time you entered the room to the time of the logic error, you, Battler, and Kanon were the only ones who went in or out of the guest room.
[Request: 'This refers to three people.'] I acknowledge it. It refers to three people: you, Battler, and Kanon. [Confirming definition. Can I accept 'three people' to mean to the number of bodies? You're saying that three bodies went in or out of the room, right?] Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people. Therefore, Kanon never left. "Shannon", if you to bother with all those reds regarding identity, can't leave either, since only Battler left. Additionally, with your idea Battler could've left on his own without needing a "sacrifice". Oh just imagine it, after all that trouble Battler left in actuality through the broken window after opening up the chain... and Kanon comes in with no Battler in sight. Oh being Shkanon is suffering. None of her sacrifices mean anything to anyone. In fact, those dearest to her trap her in a room with a homicidial maniac. edit: Ah, thanks GoldenLand. Must've missed that one... not even "TrollBattler" is possible. Last edited by qno2; 2013-08-05 at 11:42. |
2013-08-05, 11:32 | Link #32664 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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2013-08-05, 11:40 | Link #32666 |
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The seals on the Windows were in tact when the Red Statement was made. That doesn't deny that they could've been broken later.
There was the Red Statement that "This was a closed room until the end.".That implies that something occurred that no longer made it a closed room scenario. |
2013-08-05, 11:41 | Link #32667 | |||||
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2013-08-05, 11:56 | Link #32668 | |
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I may not know what the solution is, but I submit that Beatrice's puzzle to Kanon's disappearance can be found with a truth of Humans! |
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2013-08-05, 12:24 | Link #32669 | |
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The Logic Error is contingent upon Erika's seals not being broken and Battler's refusal to break them (he could've taken the tape off the chain or not reset the chain and just left, but he chose to agree that those were set). If anyone else broke the seals, it would defeat the purpose of both of their efforts. Kanon's body entered the room and didn't leave it, but Kanon did. There's only two ways a body can enter a room and the person not still be present there, really: if a person can count as something other than a body, or if presence requires being physically alive. Neither of these requires that Erika commit any sort of act on her part, although as has been noted she is perfectly capable of killing in this game if she wishes to, whether intentionally or accidentally.
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2013-08-05, 12:32 | Link #32670 | |||
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2013-08-05, 13:53 | Link #32671 | |
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2013-08-05, 15:14 | Link #32672 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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The reds are still not interchangeable in that manner. To pretend that they are would be both intellectually dishonest and absurd. I might as well argue that a hypothetical red saying Battler is dead also applies to Maria. They're both human beings, so they're pretty much the same, right? No, they're not. Anyway, have you got any ideas which can explain how Kanon could have entered the room, but did not leave it, and yet he did not exist in the room? |
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2013-08-05, 15:41 | Link #32673 | |
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I furthermore theorize that Knox's rules don't negate this, since Lady Erika herself acknowledged the existence of the room she didn't check. |
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2013-08-05, 15:48 | Link #32674 |
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This is all kind of silly, really, because obviously the intention is that the solution reveals something vital about Beatrice's heart, so it would be quite pointless for it to just be some random wordplay trick. But I suppose that this sort of thing can be an amusing intellectual exercise.
Either way, Beatrice responded to "Confirming definition. The inside of the guest room is divided into three sections: the bedroom, the bathroom, and the closet" with "I also recognize it as such". |
2013-08-05, 15:52 | Link #32675 |
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I agree with what Drifloon said. But also...we have the red that Kanon does not exist in the guest room.. Even if there were a living room in the guest room too, that red would apply to it, and Kanon could not exist there.
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2013-08-05, 16:32 | Link #32676 |
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Let's start off by denying the commonly accepted truth that if Kanon was killed, that solves this riddle.
Even if Kanon is killed, his "corpse" should still be in the closet where Erika shot and killed him. Blue Truth: Kanon entered the Guest Room and called to Battler so that he could escape. Kanon then escaped along with Battler and reset the chain. In other words, I present the argument that only Erika remained in the Guest room! |
2013-08-05, 16:39 | Link #32677 | |
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Kanon does not exist in the guest room. .........Of course, this includes all parts of the closet, the bedroom, and the bathroom. and... Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. |
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2013-08-05, 16:44 | Link #32678 | |
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I present the possibility that it's not the fact that Kanon died that invalidates Kanon's existence. But what if Kanon was killed and removed from the room by a third person! In other words, Kanon never "left" by his own power but was removed via a third party influence. In fact, he doesn't even have to be killed for this to work. He could've been knocked out and dragged out. |
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2013-08-05, 16:56 | Link #32679 | |||
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In any case...we already have a definition of going in or out of the room. It doesn't include whether or not they left voluntarily. Quote:
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2013-08-05, 16:59 | Link #32680 |
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I'll counter with the argument that Kanon's body is a False Corpse. As proclaimed in the 5th "fake murder" game. Because it's not a real body, Kanon doesn't exist in the Guest Room. Battler placed the corpse in the Closet after setting up the trap with the Shower and escaped.
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