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View Poll Results: Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 2 | 11.76% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 6 | 35.29% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 6 | 35.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 17.65% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-09-09, 14:46 | Link #61 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
That's not success. That's a failing grade. Just saying. |
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2013-09-09, 14:54 | Link #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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And I'm sure everyone else is getting tired of you repeating yourself when you've been told multiple times that the true reasoning for why others are arguing against you is a later plot point from 2wei, and thus they cannot truly answer you in the anime topics because it's a spoiler. So they try to present the clues available that hint towards that future spoiler, but you denounce them as if they don't know what they're talking about.
Ponder on how frustrating that can get. |
2013-09-09, 14:59 | Link #63 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Lets flip this around then. If Dengar is an anime only viewer and has not read 2wei and has no current intention to, wouldn't these cryptic references to stuff we understand not make a lick of sense to him/her and ultimately be irrelevant?
If Dengar is an anime only viewer then the discussion to Miyu's character should be restricted to information revealed by the anime only. Discussing Miyu's abilities and wether she won/lost the fights she was in and her so called "perfection" is a completely different can of worms. While I don't agree with Dengar's point of view, lets at least keep this discussion fair and keep information from 2wei on out of this. |
2013-09-09, 15:15 | Link #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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The thing is, the points being brought up are still relevant. The only difference is that Dengar is dismissing them outright as being of no consequence, even when they directly refute his "miss perfect" claims (like her beating half the cards herself, when in reality she only beat 1 herself).
All 2wei knowledge does is make you more aware of why those shortcomings are so important. |
2013-09-09, 15:19 | Link #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Of course it does acknowledge that. My point is if Dengar hasn't it read it, those points won't mean anything to him/her and shouldn't be held over his/her head for ignoring it. Ignoring points from the first series is definitely a bad thing and is my primary issue with Dengar's argument.
This is an anime thread, not a manga thread, so even if 2wei perfectly counters Dengar's argument, which it does, it shouldn't be used since the anime hasn't gone there yet. You have more then enough ammunition for your side of the debate from the first series so you shouldn't be lacking. So don't talk down to Dengar about stuff from 2wei when this isn't the thread for it. |
2013-09-09, 16:55 | Link #67 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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Quote:
We're arguing with you because the reasons you've provided are not valid save for Miyu being able to install the Saber card, and even then it's not like we have any idea how difficult it is. We don't have enough information to complain at the moment. This feels like blind hate to me. But it's useless to continue further, no matter what type of argument we use, you either ignore it or twist it. Feel free to keep hating her. Hopefully you'll change your mind if they ever make a second season.
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Last edited by Kanon; 2013-09-09 at 17:15. |
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2013-09-12, 15:31 | Link #68 | |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Quote:
I'll respect that it's impossible for you people to see things from another person's point of view since you apparently can't "unlearn" what you know, and translate any "almost nonexistent hint" into "obvious foreshadowing". I'm sorry, things don't work that way without the foreknowledge. Maybe some lucky guy or super genius figured out that she could Install right when the concept was first introduced but I didn't. Not sure who's doing the twisting here. Me, or the people who downplay someone breaking not one, but two concrete blocks using only their forehead, by saying "yeah but someone put a third concrete block there which she couldn't break", and at the same time up-playing the involvement of a girl who only "helped". Yes, the day would have been lost if she weren't there, but no one alive in the world ever has ever credited someone for "helping". Why start now? |
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2013-09-12, 15:39 | Link #69 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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So why does Miyu get credit? You could say she just "helped" Illya, considering Illya has a more impressive victory total over the cards. What constitutes "helping" vs "doing"? Does Miyu get credit because she landed the killing blow, and nothing else matters? Does she get credit for Saber because Illya passed out? Does she get credit vs Assassin because Illya left without collecting the card?
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2013-09-12, 15:50 | Link #70 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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I'm not sure, other than her two freakouts, both of which weren't really her being herself, Illya has yet to be the MVP in any battle.
Ok I understand if this bit sounds a bit weird. But I just don't think "flipping out and becoming someone else" is really any measure of skill. But uhhh, I've been too heated about defending myself against so many assaults from all sides. I am sorry. But the Install thing -really- threw me off. |
2013-09-13, 01:03 | Link #72 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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I suppose someone else could see it that way. To me it just seems like someone who can't possibly have been in a battle before suddenly being able to use their newly acquired stick with a lot more ability than is humanly possible. And really, any defense that borders on spoiling isn't really a proper defense to someone who only has so much info (namely the info that has been given to me) to work with (not to mention very unfair).
That being said, I -really- don't like the "perfect at everything transfer student who turns out to be instantly better at the hero'ing too", whether she won every single battle or not isn't really the issue here, it's the unrealistic amount of skill she possesses that throws me off every time. Illya at least has a visible learning curve. |
2013-09-13, 06:45 | Link #74 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Yeah... That doesn't really help me much, does it? This isn't asking for spoilers. This is me stating a fact: That this is very nonsensical to me without access to more detailed information that the anime itself does not provide.
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2013-09-13, 07:05 | Link #75 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Quote:
The only real "talent" Miyu has displayed so far is her performance in school, and even then it's uncertain whether it's actually her natural ability or something she studied diligently to acquire because there is nothing known about her background. |
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2013-09-13, 12:02 | Link #76 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Illya's victories have been either explained or properly foreshadowed. Nothing I've seen in the anime up until this point whatsoever appears to guarantee that Miyu will ever turn out to be anything other than a ridiculous natural at everything except imagination.
And pulling off a magic that no one in the world knows about by seeing it done by someone else only once. |
2013-09-13, 12:36 | Link #77 |
Senior Member
Author
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Well, in fairness to Dengar, if we do a straight-up comparison between Illya and Miyu (sticking just to what the anime has shown)...
Miyu Advantages: More Intelligent - Demonstrated in school. More Focused - Miyu doesn't seem to waver as much as Illya does. Better Fighter - Miyu landed very quick, impressive, decisive killing blows on Rider and Berseker. Faster Running Speed - Demonstrated in school. Better Cook - Demonstrated in school, and reinforced by being a maid. More Cool, Calm,and Collected - Illya isn't as composed in combat as Miyu is. More Courageous - Demonstrated by Miyu going it alone against Berserker. More Adept at Magic - Miyu gets the technical side of Nasuverse magic more than Illya does. Illya Advantages: More Imagination - Demonstrated by actual flight. Warmer Personality - Mixes with others more easily, naturally friendly. More Potential at Magic - Illya seems to have more raw magical potential than Miyu given what happened in the Saber and Assassin fights. In other categories, I'd say it's a toss-up. So on the whole, Illya has a lot of catching up to do before she can truly stand on par with Miyu. I don't seriously think that Miyu is a Mary Sue, but it seems a bit imbalanced between her and Illya now. I still like Miyu as a character, but I can see why this would be disconcerting to some viewers.
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2013-09-13, 12:44 | Link #78 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Quote:
I do not wish to discuss whether you view Miyu as perfect or not, but let me say something about her being able to do "Install". Silver Link removed or changed two important things compared to the manga in that scene: 1. Miyu told Sapphire that she doesn't want anyone to find out about install, that's why she wanted to be alone. This line was removed. 2. Miyu didn't say "Oh, I saw Ilya doing it once before", but more something like "Even Ilya could do it, why didn't I ever do this before?" The first time I read this scene a few years ago, I thought Miyu is definitely hiding something. Why does she know the incantation for the Holy Grail War Summon? It can't be because of Ilya, because Ilya simply skipped the process. I saw it as foreshadowing because we basically know nothing of Miyu in the first season and Ilya's questions in episode 8 like "Where is her family?" or "Is she an orphan?" are deliberately left unanswered. So I do understand why you are left confused and feel like it is an asspull because the animation studio screwed up. I cannot understand their actions, especially after they apparently announced an adaptation for 2wei just now (probably because the preorder sales are doing very well). Last edited by Lorhand; 2013-09-13 at 13:28. |
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2013-09-13, 13:28 | Link #79 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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2013-09-13, 14:40 | Link #80 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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We don't know how much Miyu knew before Luvia took her in or where she even came from. Ilya however has been established to know nothing about magic and magecraft before Rin appeared and yet she can keep up with Miyu just fine. |
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