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 2006-04-20, 18:34 Link #1 Psieye Lore Hunter     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: GMT +1 Age: 33 The Ontology of Haruhi Suzumiya You know, I've never scanned the OP in so much detail as this before... After the title and before the Starry Run sequence are a lot of formulae written in white (hence hard to read). I could spot: Haruhi Power Walking shot (focussing on her skirt/mid-body) Electron-positron orbits The Capital Lambda symbol Haruhi Power Walking shot (focussing just above her head) - Chemical formula for a Benzene ring (along with its formula written out compact form: C6H6) - t_universe (presumably a Cosmology equation) - Planck's Constant (i.e. h-bar) in [J s] units - Some geometric series summing to infinity - D = 0.4 + 0.3 x 2^n (not sure what this is an equation of) - Schrodinger's equation written in Dirac Notation - N = R^0 x f_p x n_e x f_l(?) x f_i(?) x f_c x f (this seems somewhat familiar but I can't quite pinpoint it...) - H(x) = - SUM [for all x within the set X] (......) (couldn't read all of this but I don't quite recognise that x within X set condition. Maybe a Hamiltonian?) Haruhi Cheerleader sequence English + Kanji + Standard form representations (i.e. 10^3, 10^6, etc) of orders of magnitude going upwards (up to Septillion and higher) Mikuru Cheerleader sequence - Schrodinger's equation applied to a potential well - E^2 = c^2 p^2 -> (i h-bar d/dt)^2 c^2.... (etc etc etc) (Normally it's E^2 = c^2 p^2 + m^2 c^4 so this is some expression for a massless particle - likely a photon) - Expression for the time-dependance of wave functions (though they're using d^2/dq^2 where q is a generalised space coordinate) - h-bar = h/2*Pi (standard notation this) - E = mc^2 - A partial differential equation used in Thermodynamics (I think that's S for Entropy and u for Internal Energy... damn so rusty on this one) - A probability expression - Grad^2 spelled out (d^2/d(x_1)^2 + d^2/d(x_2)^2 + ... + d^2/d(x_n)^2) ... I'm probably the only one right now who's wishing Mikuru isn't blocking the background in this sequence. Haruhi Banchou sequence Kanji + Standard form representations for orders of magnitude this time heading towards the small scale (10^-15, -16, etc) At this rate, the Haruhi OP will become my motivation for studying for my final Physics exams... XD
 2006-04-20, 19:23 Link #2 panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer     Join Date: Dec 2004 1. The electron would be in 1s2 config so... Helium, if its stable or an unstable hydrogen ion... 2. http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html 3. There's also a conversion table for metric unit to their Chinese/Japanese written equivilents. This is shown in the cheerleading scene. Extremas all are taken from buddhist terminalogy. 一、十、百、千、萬、億、兆、京、垓、秭、穰、溝、澗、正、載、極、恆河沙、阿僧祇、那由他、不可思議、無 量大數 一 10E0, 十 10E1, 百 10E2, 千 10E3, 萬 10E4, 億 10E8, 兆 10E12, 京 10E16, 垓 10E20、秭 10E24, 穰、10E28, 溝 10E32, 澗 10E36, 正 10E40, 載 10E44, 極 10E48, 恆河沙 10E52, 阿僧祇10E56, 那由他10E60, 不可思議 10E64, 無量大數 10E68 分、釐、毫、絲、忽、微、纖、沙、塵、埃、渺、莫、模糊、逡巡、須臾、瞬息、彈指、刹那、六德、空虛、清靜 , 阿賴羅, 涅槃寂靜 分 10E-1, 釐 10E-2, 毫 10E-3, 絲 10E-4, 忽 10E-5, 微 10E-6, 纖10E-7, 沙 10E-8, 塵 10E-9, 埃 10E-10, 渺 10E-11, 莫 10E-12, 模糊 10E-13, 逡巡 10E-14, 須臾 10E-15, 瞬息 10E-16, 彈指 10E-17, 刹那 10E-18, 六德 10E-19, 空虛 10E-20, 、清靜 10E-21, 阿賴羅 10E-22, 涅槃寂靜 10E-24 ----------------- (now the English equivelent of this table) Uni, deca, hecto, kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta, exa, zetta, yotta. One, ten, hundred, thousand, million, milliard, billion, billiard, trillion, trilliard, quadrillion. One, ten, hundred, thousand, million, billion, trillion, quadrillion, quintillion, sextillion, septillion 10E0, 10E1, 10E2, 10E3, 10E6, 10E9, 10E12, 10E15, 10E18, 10E21, 10E24 deci, centi, milli, micro, nano, pico, femto, atto, zemtp, yocto. Tenth, hundredth, thousandth, millionth, milliardth, billionth, billiardth, trillionth, trilliardth, quadrillionth Tenth, hundredth, thousandth, millionth, billionth, trillionth, quadrillionth, sextillionth, septillionth. 10E-1, 10E-2, 10E-3, 10E-6, 10E-9, 10E-12, 10E-15, 10E-18, 10E-21, 10E-24 ----------------- 10E68 is infinity, 10E64 is incredable and 10E52 is like sand of the Padma river bank. 10E48 is literally 'limit'. 10E-21 is tranquility... There however exist far larger number. Googolplex for example is... 10E10E100. Googol is 10E100. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numbers __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori Last edited by panzerfan; 2006-04-22 at 03:46.
 2006-04-20, 22:15 Link #3 Onizuka-GTO Holy Beast ~Wuff!~ Scanlator     Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, UK Age: 34 ok, don't get me started on the time theories. At the last count there were five scientifically accepted hypothesis. (correct me if im wrong) But only two types could support your theories on Mikuru, #1. Multi-universe paradox branching. I.e. Everytime you change the course of the establish time of event, your alteration creates a parallel alternative universe to accommodate your change, thus you will never ever be able to return to your future original distination. #2. the other is that time is infinity mallable, but your personal self will continue to exist, dispite the change of time events thus you will exist in this new timeline yet still retain perfect memory of your original timeline history. at this moment im not so sure which one the author is using, but it's a good chance its not going to be one of those two types that will allow your speculation. ah, but then again, Hollywood always did like theory #2 ahh dammit. I give up on all this heavy topics, its not something i should be doing at 4am. >.< __________________
2006-04-20, 23:03   Link #4
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 31
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Kamui4356 Spoiler:
Professor - Damn you!
Fry - Aw don't worry, everything turned out ok, so, whose my grandfather?
Professor - YOU ARE!

When it comes to these time paradoxes the best thing to do is not think about them at all. Because when you think about it, then you get second thoughts about since it happened, then there would be no reason to travel through the past to do it and so forth.

Though is there any reason why Yuki spilled the beans in front of kyon?

And on another note,
Spoiler:

2006-04-21, 00:23   Link #5
melange
Reset, reset, reset...

Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
 Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness Professor - Damn you! Fry - Aw don't worry, everything turned out ok, so, whose my grandfather? Professor - YOU ARE! When it comes to these time paradoxes the best thing to do is not think about them at all. Because when you think about it, then you get second thoughts about since it happened, then there would be no reason to travel through the past to do it and so forth. Though is there any reason why Yuki spilled the beans in front of kyon? And on another note, Spoiler:
Man you guys are getting ahead of yourselves. I think you'll get to wrap your heads around time paradoxes at some point but not so soon!

re: Yuki's revelation
It'll be explained later.

re: spoiler
Its highly likely someone is going to make a doujin of precisely that matter
__________________

"Every man has two countries, his own and France" - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson

2006-04-21, 02:08   Link #6
felix
sleepyhead
Author

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
Quote:
 Originally Posted by melange Man you guys are getting ahead of yourselves. I think you'll get to wrap your heads around time paradoxes at some point but not so soon!
Look who's talking... your spoiler is disturbing the timeline and the natural balance of things

Spoiler:

Now to grant your wish and end the time paradoxes :

I think the shows time traveling thing is based on Theory #3... the one that's not so used in movies ...

Basically even if you go back in time you won't change a thing... because you are part of the timeline (of both timelines to be exact)... it's usually used in those movies where the idiot that goes back in time to correct something ends up the reason for it happening in the first place

And some proof to back it up...
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Opening Song This can't be stopped. Destiny was determined long ago.
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Last edited by felix; 2006-04-21 at 08:16.

2006-04-21, 11:59   Link #7
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 60
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII Look who's talking... your spoiler is disturbing the timeline and the natural balance of things Spoiler: Now to grant your wish and end the time paradoxes : I think the shows time traveling thing is based on Theory #3... the one that's not so used in movies ... Basically even if you go back in time you won't change a thing... because you are part of the timeline (of both timelines to be exact)... it's usually used in those movies where the idiot that goes back in time to correct something ends up the reason for it happening in the first place And some proof to back it up...
Aye, thats my favorite .... but it basically implies that Free Will is an illusion or that the timeline is so resilient that free will choices are swamped out by the "inevitable tendencies". Physics-wise, the mutiple-verses of timelines seems to fit the available data the best though the debate is still on in science.
__________________

2006-04-21, 12:08   Link #8
npal
I desire Tomorrow!

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: As far away from reality as possible
Age: 35
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Vexx Aye, thats my favorite .... but it basically implies that Free Will is an illusion or that the timeline is so resilient that free will choices are swamped out by the "inevitable tendencies". Physics-wise, the mutiple-verses of timelines seems to fit the available data the best though the debate is still on in science.
Isn't free will an illusion?
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2006-04-21, 13:04   Link #9
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 60
Quote:
 Originally Posted by npal Isn't free will an illusion?
I think the only place you can find "free will" anymore is in quantum mechanics, nonlinear dynamics, and complexity theory. Kind of like though you can map out the phase-space completely, but lots of interesting "unpredictable" stuff happens within those boundaries.
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 2006-04-21, 13:12 Link #10 panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer     Join Date: Dec 2004 Well from what I remember, you can guarantee an event will occur sometime but you can never be sure as to when it'll happen in quantum mechanics. (It's a good thing that Vexx is not Nanoha afterall, as an unrelated note) __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori
 2006-04-21, 16:28 Link #11 DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals I hate you all. :P All this talk about time paradoxes has me not only reading a large portion of the time related articles in wiki, but also some VERY distantly related articles like evolution through sexual selection and about theories how our moon got created. >_< __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
2006-04-21, 18:47   Link #12
panzerfan
Name means little...
Graphic Designer

Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
 Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 I hate you all. :P All this talk about time paradoxes has me not only reading a large portion of the time related articles in wiki, but also some VERY distantly related articles like evolution through sexual selection and about theories how our moon got created. >_<
Psyeye did alot of homework on the main Suzumiya Haruhi thread regarding the OP bits of equations that scrolls through the canvas, so it's not just you that ended up hitting the web/book.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...=26413&page=34. Sushi-Y, melange and a whole lot have spent days and lose sleep to provide information by-the-minute due to Haruhiism's irresistable pull, like a blackhole that has a schwarzschild radius that can swallow galaxies whole. The thing though is that the more you know, the more sense this series make. The power of Haruhi compels you to further yourself!

Although maybe...
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Max Payne [The plot] is a puzzle, like a broken mirror. As you piece it together, you cut yourself. Your image keeps shifting, and you change with it. It could destroy you, drive you mad. It could set you free.
__________________

It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality.
It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori

Last edited by panzerfan; 2006-04-21 at 19:00.

2006-04-21, 19:03   Link #13
Thelastguardian
...

Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Danj I've only seen one Haruhi doujin so far
Really? I have seen a few SH ero-doujins already (accidentally). Those artists are fast.

They scarred my mind premanetly. Now whenever I see the original manga, my mind remembers *cut off*

Quote:
 Originally Posted by panzerfan Well from what I remember, you can guarantee an event will occur sometime but you can never be sure as to when it'll happen in quantum mechanics.
Technically, the atoms that made up your whole body can disintergrate at this very second. So can the protons , neutrons, electrons, and other sub-particles in the Standard Model(they are, after all, inheriently unstable).

Furthermore (if you watched Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, you would know), it is conceviable that earth could teleport from its orbit into the event horizon of the black hole in the middle of Milky Way galaxy as you read this sentence.

Of course. This can happen only if the universe keeps on expanding until...everything disintegrates. All matters become energy, which spread evenly across the universe (entropy max and enthapy none).
__________________

 2006-04-21, 21:02 Link #14 Onizuka-GTO Holy Beast ~Wuff!~ Scanlator     Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, UK Age: 34 talking of time theories, my favourite one, is that time will always gowe the way it's suppose to go, (anti-paradox) in that only major event changes at critical key points can change history. i.e. if you kill some person, that was insignificant. time will eventually correct that anomally, it will not have what some people suggest a "domino" or "butterfly" effect. but if you say kill someone who will eventually shape a world, then that timeline will change. __________________
2006-04-21, 21:51   Link #15
Kamui4356
Aria Company

Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO talking of time theories, my favourite one, is that time will always gowe the way it's suppose to go, (anti-paradox) in that only major event changes at critical key points can change history.
What's the point of time travel if you don't get to screw up history? I like the idea of being able to go back in time, do something minor, like eat an apple, and completely change the world. It's much more interesting that way. Of course that also means time travel would likely be completely banned even if it were possible.
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 2006-04-21, 22:04 Link #16 celcius Aspiring but lazy     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Internet ^ Butterfly effect, was it? The movie showed how just small changes in the past affected the future in a myriad of ways. Spoiler for Butterfly Effect: I think this is turning into a pre-determinism discussion. Lol.
2006-04-21, 22:45   Link #17
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 31
Quote:
 Originally Posted by celcius ^ Butterfly effect, was it? The movie showed how just small changes in the past affected the future in a myriad of ways. Spoiler for Butterfly Effect: I think this is turning into a pre-determinism discussion. Lol.
Spoiler:

Quote:
 What's the point of time travel if you don't get to screw up history? I like the idea of being able to go back in time, do something minor, like eat an apple, and completely change the world. It's much more interesting that way. Of course that also means time travel would likely be completely banned even if it were possible.
Remember what Homer's dad told him on his wedding,

"Son, if you ever travel back in time (Why would anyone tell that to their son on their wedding day? ) don't touch ANYTHING"

I was discussing time paradoxes with my history professor and she noted the only way to do that is to basically get drunk.

Though I'm curious where the show is going with this route, are they just going to be doing the episodes randomly?

2006-04-21, 23:00   Link #18
melange
Reset, reset, reset...

Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
 Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness Though I'm curious where the show is going with this route, are they just going to be doing the episodes randomly?
Well speaking more on a meta-level and not touching the content of the plot itself... you can say the novels themselves, because they aren't written/arrayed in chronological order, make the reader jump around the SOS-dan timeline in the act of reading. For example, events A - B - C happen in order but the novels would go, Vol. 1 (A) -> Vol. 2 (C) -> Vol. 3 (B) etc.

As to how the anime itself is going to handle this... who knows? As was speculated by Sushi-Y in the Episode Prediction/Speculation thread, they may just rearrange things in chronological order - thus the supposed 'skipping' of the 2nd novel some people who obviously haven't read the novels were frothing at the mouth against.
__________________

"Every man has two countries, his own and France" - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson

2006-04-21, 23:00   Link #19
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 36
Quote:
 Originally Posted by celcius Since when did banning not push people to do it the act that was banned? Having time travel would be bad since irresponsible people would abuse it.
Everything has been abused by irresponsible people. And there is nothing you can do about that.

Tell me of one thing that exists that hasn't been abused?

The blame isn't on Time Travel, but on the irresponsible people. You can't un-invent something that has been discovered.

All that will happen is that only the irresponsible people will get to use the banned technologies, because those who do follow the rules are the only ones who will listen to the rules.
__________________

 2006-04-21, 23:07 Link #20 celcius Aspiring but lazy     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Internet Yes, but the possibilities of time travel could increase the number of irresponsible people, seeing as they can just as easily go back and do something they had to do that they didn't do. *erm* As long as events don't seem too awkward or chaotic, I don't think having episodes shown at random are that bad. For people who haven't read the novels (like me), I don't think they'd (we'd) notice any jump.

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