World of Warships [Wargaming.net]

[Drake]

Non Disclosure Agreement.

Its a clause you agree to when alpha/beta testing a game, basically your not allowed to disclose media or information while participating in testing.

Or something along those lines.

[KBTKaiser]

Myssa needs to get rid of that screenshot of the results. That's how the devs narrow down who's leaking info and terminate said account.

[Xero8420]

Ah, yes. The same agreement thing I had when I registered for MechWarrior Online when it was closed beta. Well, it's OK not to compromise it too much as long as it's not pics.

[Ithekro]

The historical World War II Soviet Navy was not all that important for most of the war. Much of the larger ships wasted away at port, or provided some fire support against the German armies as they got closer to the ports/coasts. The Pacific Fleet did nothing that I recall. The Black Sea and Baltic Fleets were closed off by the Germans, spenting a lot of time mining the sea and dodging dive bombers. Only the Northern Fleet could operate and it was mostly to support convoys.

The lighter ships would scuffle with German lighter ships from time to time, but the bigger stuff? Not all that much really. At least from what I remember.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The historical World War II Soviet Navy was not all that important for most of the war. Much of the larger ships wasted away at port, or provided some fire support against the German armies as they got closer to the ports/coasts. The Pacific Fleet did nothing that I recall. The Black Sea and Baltic Fleets were closed off by the Germans, spenting a lot of time mining the sea and dodging dive bombers. Only the Northern Fleet could operate and it was mostly to support convoys.

The lighter ships would scuffle with German lighter ships from time to time, but the bigger stuff? Not all that much really. At least from what I remember.

And worse, I also discovered that there were a few battleships laid down and already began constructing until when they were all disrupted by Operation Barbarossa. Even after the war, they were all summarily scrapped and thus never completed. Not only that, even those BBs were planned to be built in the Tsarist-era were brought down by the revolution as well. The Russians weren't lack of ambitions and knowledge, just that the navy was being very unlucky and was severely undermined by an unforeseeable circumstances when some of the promising projects were seemed to crumbled by it and see it fail.

You know what I think? I think the Russian navy suffered the worst luck compare to the rest of the major naval powers. Even the supercarrier project and those that linked to it (i.e. supersonic VTOL fighter jet & carrier-borne AWACS plane) were forced to cancel after the USSR collapsed, and lost the industrial capability to build large warships when the main shipyard was no longer in possession, namely Sevastopol.

Again, they have the potential to form an effective blue water navy fleets, but most times, the cursed SHTF obstacles just got in its way. Welp, being Russian navy is suffering.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

And worse, I also discovered that there were a few battleships laid down and already began constructing until when they were all disrupted by Operation Barbarossa. Even after the war, they were all summarily scrapped and thus never completed. Not only that, even those BBs were planned to be built in the Tsarist-era were brought down by the revolution as well. The Russians weren't lack of ambitions and knowledge

WG's track record from World of Tanks would cause one to cynically speculate that this will mean that the USSR paper navy in WoWS will be STRONKEST NAVY.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

WG's track record from World of Tanks would cause one to cynically speculate that this will mean that the USSR paper navy in WoWS will be STRONKEST NAVY.

Just because they even added T-54/55 and T-62 but failed to add M-60 into the game, which led to the skeptical impression that WG's Russian biased. :v

Even more so that those butthurt peeps are butthurting to expect the game to be historically accurate and realistic, rather than having "paper ships" that would make the game "unrealistic". Then why not talk about the Germans? Both the Germans and the Soviets actually had the same common problem in shipbuilding technology. Yet they don't complain about them bringing in some cancelled warships? See? Even those guys are biased too. The butthurt is all over the place when they talk about history.

Also, it should be noted that the Soviets were on the equal footing with the German in a sense that both were mostly on land-based warfare (ground and air), rather than on the sea like the USN vs IJN.

[Ithekro]

The Soviet Navy had several dozen modern destroyers that would be the equivalent to probably a faster Mutsuki-class destroyer.

Their half dozen modern cruisers were Italian designed, so fast, but not well armored. Also they used 180 mm cannons (7.1 inch) which is odd so it is hard to guess what it would balance with for other countries.

Their four dreadnought battleships were old. 12 x 12 inch cannons with no superimoposed turrets. Even the oldest American and British battleships left in 1940 would be able to handle those, and the Japanese battleship are over that even with Fuso or Kongo.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Soviet Navy had several dozen modern destroyers that would be the equivalent to probably a faster Mutsuki-class destroyer.

Their half dozen modern cruisers were Italian designed, so fast, but not well armored. Also they used 180 mm cannons (7.1 inch) which is odd so it is hard to guess what it would balance with for other countries.

Their four dreadnought battleships were old. 12 x 12 inch cannons with no superimoposed turrets. Even the oldest American and British battleships left in 1940 would be able to handle those, and the Japanese battleship are over that even with Fuso or Kongo.

Heard that its main batteries has long and accurate range. Though only 3 survived the revolution and seen used in WW2, but mostly in the defense of the Black Sea and fire support. Those were the only capital ships they got, and they couldn't risk to lose them to German air attacks. Don't forget the battleshiplent from the UK as well.

There is an incomplete powerful battleship class I was referring, which can actually stand toe-to-toe against both Bismarck, Yamato, Montana and maybe Iowa. And also a battlecruiserthat was never completed.

Besides, there were also more capital ships from WW1 may be taken into account, as the game isn't necessarily restricted to WW2-era and early-mid Cold War-era.

PS: I wonder what are they going to do with ships that would later converted to other nations like Hibiki for example.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

There is an incomplete powerful battleship class I was referring, which can actually stand toe-to-toe against both Bismarck, Yamato, Montana and maybe Iowa.

The Montana-class was never built. And whether the Soviet ship could have stood toe to toe with Yamato and Iowa, not likely. Soviet maritime technology was far behind. The combat ability of ships is dependent on more factors than simply thickness of the armour and size of the guns. The radar-based fire control of the Americans outclassed everything that was there at that time and in terms of optics-based fire control the Japanese had very good ones, certainly much superior to the Soviets.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

The Montana-class was never built. And whether the Soviet ship could have stood toe to toe with Yamato and Iowa, not likely. Soviet maritime technology was far behind. The combat ability of ships is dependent on more factors than simply thickness of the armour and size of the guns. The radar-based fire control of the Americans outclassed everything that was there at that time and in terms of optics-based fire control the Japanese had very good ones, certainly much superior to the Soviets.

It was rumored that it could have be as powerful as Bismarck and maybe comparable with Yamato, but we never know how good it could perform since it was never completed historically. But we might see how in game once it got into beta.

Right now, it's up to WG to relive that incomplete ship, but they need more time to analyze the blueprint. Though there are butthurt people still being skeptical of them making it an OP warship.

[Ithekro]

With the inferior quality of Soviet armor technology at that time, they would likely have been more or less equal to say an American North Carolina-class battleship. Nagato could probably take her on effectly if speed wasn't an issue in their dueling.

Their battlecruiser would be halfway between a modernized Repulse and Hood.

And Royal Soverign is a known. Older battleship though powerful guns. Any British Queen Elizabeth-class battleship would stand up to her and most of the older American battleships would be a rough equal since the American "All or Nothing" armor style and larger number of guns would counter the 15 inch guns. The Fusos might also be a rough equal, though not as well protected.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Cyprene

"Sadly I couldn't see them being viable in WoW, because they were only really effective at destroying unarmed merchant ships in WW2 (with their deck guns) and did not fair well against armed military vessels."

Is that right? I can think of quite a few ships that were sunk in the pacific theatre. Ushio, Ooshio, Taihou, Tenryuu.... and that was just one sub, the USS Albacore.

Yorktown and Wasp too...


Not forgetting Shoukaku and Atago


Subs are all about being in ambush

Originally Posted by Xero8420

It was rumored that it could have be as powerful as Bismarck and maybe comparable with Yamato, but we never know how good it could perform since it was never completed historically. But we might see how in game once it got into beta.

Right now, it's up to WG to relive that incomplete ship, but they need more time to analyze the blueprint. Though there are butthurt people still being skeptical of them making it an OP warship.

If it is indeed comparable to Bismarck then it will die in all likeliness to Yamato. Bismarck was a severely underarmoured ship suited to close range duels in Atlantic waters. She would never survive long range, Pacifc style gunnery action....closing on Yamato would be suocide as well obviously

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

With the inferior quality of Soviet armor technology at that time, they would likely have been more or less equal to say an American North Carolina-class battleship. Nagato could probably take her on effectly if speed wasn't an issue in their dueling.

Their battlecruiser would be halfway between a modernized Repulse and Hood.

And Royal Soverign is a known. Older battleship though powerful guns. Any British Queen Elizabeth-class battleship would stand up to her and most of the older American battleships would be a rough equal since the American "All or Nothing" armor style and larger number of guns would counter the 15 inch guns. The Fusos might also be a rough equal, though not as well protected.

That was exactly what I want to talk about, that the Soviet shipbuilding technology wasn't as well-developed as the US and Japan at that time (you may say it was inferior, but it don't mean that the navy itself was a laughing stock either since they focused more on subs), thus lacking the ability to cast cemented armor thicker than 230mm nor have an effective methods to make ship armor thicker than the WW1-era battleship. Although in terms of armor, the Sovetsky Soyuz could have been slightly heavier than Yamato. Well, yeah. Maybe it can be comparable with the North Carolina in terms of main batteries firepower. Nonetheless, both can launch floatplanes.

Radar & fire-control system, however, not much were known in performance.

For the Royal Sovereign, it was one of the Revenge-class battleships. Later known as Arkhangelsk. The ship itself was considered as the flagship, so it may expect to be a premium ship.

Since the Revenge-class succeeded the Queen Elizabeth-class, it can be better than the predecessor. Even though both were more or less similar.

By the way, what do you think of Admiral Hipper-class?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

With the inferior quality of Soviet armor technology at that time, they would likely have been more or less equal to say an American North Carolina-class battleship. Nagato could probably take her on effectly if speed wasn't an issue in their dueling.

Their battlecruiser would be halfway between a modernized Repulse and Hood.

And Royal Soverign is a known. Older battleship though powerful guns. Any British Queen Elizabeth-class battleship would stand up to her and most of the older American battleships would be a rough equal since the American "All or Nothing" armor style and larger number of guns would counter the 15 inch guns. The Fusos might also be a rough equal, though not as well protected.

I wouldn't discount Yamashiro's protection that quickly....She took a veritable firestorm of accurately placed BB and cruiser shots at Surigao Strait for nearly a quarter hour or so if memory serves me rightly and while it wreaked considerable damage on her exposed surfaces, none of it was fatal or even critical. She was sank only by destroyer torpedoes.


Now her sister Fuso capsized rapidly after being torpedoed only thrice but her watertight integrity might have been already compromised by earlier air attack

[Ithekro]

Well the honest truth is that the Revenge-class was a step backwards from the Queen Elizabeth-class. The Revenge-class was a wartime construction designed to be built with the ability to use coal to fire the boilers in case the Germans managed to cut off the British oil supplied that would needed for the likes of the Queen Elizabeth-class (this was cancelled for all oil fired boilers, but the design of the hull wasn't changed) The armor was done differently, partly because it was cheaper, but also because they were still expecting a close in fight. While the Revenge-class was not upgraded much after World War One, they never were as fast as the Queen Elizabeths. By World War Two, they were just not in good mechanical condition and were even slower than before.

The Queen Elizabeths were upgraded between the wars. They were just considered better ships and kept around while the Revenge-class was up to be replaced by the Lion-class battleships (cancelled).

The Admiral Hipper-class was fine as a heavy cruiser. Slightly heavy for her armaments compared to the American or Japanese heavy cruisers, but doesn't have the top heavy problems of the Japanese heavy cruisers. The Germans were known to have good armor, though some consider the British armor superior (they are probably the same just different). The one lost in combat during the war was due to fighting shore batteries that were battleship sized guns. Their main problem, they were outnumbered by the British.

Later American light cruisers would probably make swiss cheese of her though. A Brooklyn-class with fifteen 6 inch cannons that can rapid fire can pretty much take on any regular heavy cruiser in the war.

We've done the Battle of River Plate (in miniatures) using the ships using in the British film from the 1950s. HMS Jamaica (as Exeter), HMS Sheffield (as Ajax), and INS Delhi (playing herself, HMMZS Achilles) fighing USS Salem (as Graf Spee). Salem would murder the historical British force with her nine automatic 8 inch guns. Even the movie force would have trouble with Salem. Graf Spee's six 11 inch guns work nice enough, but don't put out enough shells to completely overwhelm the three British cruisers.

[demonix]

Originally Posted by KBTKaiser

Myssa needs to get rid of that screenshot of the results. That's how the devs narrow down who's leaking info and terminate said account.

It's likely that the NDA was only for the alpha test since the weekend test was a beta test (so says the WoWS site) since the mighty jingles mentioned in one of his recent mingles with jingles videos about the non disclosure agreement for WoWS only to post one on Monday (which is why I suspect that the beta test weekend wasn't covered in the non disclosure agreement).

[KBTKaiser]

nope, Beta weekenders are under the same NDA, since it's CLOSED beta, not open beta. The thing is, if you squint, you can see the email and IP myssa use in the ss, which is how they crack down on people streaming or leaking screens.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well the honest truth is that the Revenge-class was a step backwards from the Queen Elizabeth-class. The Revenge-class was a wartime construction designed to be built with the ability to use coal to fire the boilers in case the Germans managed to cut off the British oil supplied that would needed for the likes of the Queen Elizabeth-class (this was cancelled for all oil fired boilers, but the design of the hull wasn't changed) The armor was done differently, partly because it was cheaper, but also because they were still expecting a close in fight. While the Revenge-class was not upgraded much after World War One, they never were as fast as the Queen Elizabeths. By World War Two, they were just not in good mechanical condition and were even slower than before.

The Queen Elizabeths were upgraded between the wars. They were just considered better ships and kept around while the Revenge-class was up to be replaced by the Lion-class battleships (cancelled).

So that means Revenge-class was technically a "monkey-model" of theQueen Elizabeth-class.

Originally Posted by demonix

It's likely that the NDA was only for the alpha test since the weekend test was a beta test (so says the WoWS site) since the mighty jingles mentioned in one of his recent mingles with jingles videos about the non disclosure agreement for WoWS only to post one on Monday (which is why I suspect that the beta test weekend wasn't covered in the non disclosure agreement).

From my experience in other games, players are still bound to be under NDA in closed beta until open beta.

[Ithekro]

The Revenge-class along with the Queen Elizabeths gave the Royal Navy ten solid 15 inch guns battleships to use in a battle line. That would have been a wonderful thing in the 1920s or even early 1930s had they gone to war with anyone that had a large number of battleship to the point were one might see a battle line like at Jutland. But by the late 1930s and 1940s? With the Germans having so few battleships, and the Italians not having nearly as many capital ships as the British, only the Japanese and Americans could have warrented such a display of battleships. Plus the airplane and more modern submarines were making battle lines into targets.

Repulse, Renown, and Hood represented the fast part of the British battle fleet. If the semi-predicted war between the Americans and British in the 1920s had happened (a war over economics as these would be the two largest rivals in the Atlantic) the Americans would be able to handle most of the British ships one on one, but not Hood. Repulse and Renown would be trouble, but they were relatively lightly armored and the American 14 and 16 inch guns could still reach them. Hood was well armored and fast. She was pretty much a fast battleship in an age of super dreadnoughts and the Big Seven. The Americans had nothing to counter Hood. The only chance at sea would be if the the war started late enough for the carriers to be finished. Langley wouldn't be much of a threat (too few planes and slow), but if Lexington was finished, the Americans would at least have a capital ship of some kind that was as fast as Hood. It would depend on if the early air groups could actually do anything to Hood back then.