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View Poll Results: Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 10 18.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 37.04%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 29.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 11.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.85%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.85%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2015-03-02, 15:44   Link #201
Kurohane
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Its one of them old books. I think people call it the Bible.
It is the Bible, John 12:25. Also, no need to be sarcastic.
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Old 2015-03-02, 17:41   Link #202
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
You can't help but notice how Eddelrituo was avoiding eye contact in the beginning of her conversation with Slaine. After he snapped at her, she's become afraid of him. Slaine isn't helping relieve any of her worries either by the way he's acting. Even she feels that Slaine's apathetic attitude towards Lemrina is unfair, and she was up close when Lemrina joked about Asseylum's life. While some may say she deserves it, that doesn't make Slaine's manipulations to her right. If it comes down to it, I can see the maid trying to seek Inaho for help. How at this point is anyone's guess.
I don't know, I kind of saw her avoiding eye contact because she didn't know how to broach the subject with him. I honestly think she really wants to help him. She's been around nobles all her life, I'm sure this wasn't the first one that's snapped at her. However, it may just be the first one that apologized for it right after. I think this whole thing has been a big mess for all three players involved. Eddelrittuo may not care for Lemrina as much as she does Asseylum and Slaine, but she still doesn't want her hurt. She doesn't want anyone hurt, but she really doesn't know what to do about it. She's the connection between all 3 of these people, which puts her in an awkward position.

As for Lemrina, I don't think she deserves anything per say. However, I do think that much of her pain come from her guilt over what she tried to do to her sister. In that way, I think she sort of brought it on herself. She's been angry and hurt over her family and a sister who she's never known and who have never known her, and it has poisoned her heart like rotten fruit. She has a conscious, we've seen that. We've never seen her take that final step into the abyss that unforgiveness brings you to. I think she can be helped if it's not too late.

As for Slaine lying to her, it all depends on why he did it. If he did it to protect Asseylum because he knew that Lemrina might be a threat to her safety, or even that perhaps he knew of her murder attempt, then I don't see anything wrong with that. However, if it was for some other reason, than he needs to tell her the truth, and explain.

Quote:
There's a quote from the Bible: "He who loves his life shall lose it, while he who hates his life shall have it for all eternity."

Despite what people say, Slaine is actually pretty selfless. Everything he does is for somebody else and he never does anything for his own pleasure or enjoyment. Sure he might have actually gotten some enjoyment here or there, but ultimately whatever he was doing was to make someone else happy, whether it was his father, Asseylum, Eddelrittuo, Saazbaum, etc.

Considering the context of that scripture you quoted, I would have to agree with you. I think Slaine will end up finding what he's looking for and more by the end of this. He might face a whole lot of trials and tribulations and make some mistakes, but he's going to be okay. He'll find that place that is "his own".
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Old 2015-03-02, 18:03   Link #203
Pegasai
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
I don't know, I kind of saw her avoiding eye contact because she didn't know how to broach the subject with him. I honestly think she really wants to help him. She's been around nobles all her life, I'm sure this wasn't the first one that's snapped at her. However, it may just be the first one that apologized for it right after. I think this whole thing has been a big mess for all three players involved. Eddelrittuo may not care for Lemrina as much as she does Asseylum and Slaine, but she still doesn't want her hurt. She doesn't want anyone hurt, but she really doesn't know what to do about it. She's the connection between all 3 of these people, which puts her in an awkward position.

As for Lemrina, I don't think she deserves anything per say. However, I do think that much of her pain come from her guilt over what she tried to do to her sister. In that way, I think she sort of brought it on herself. She's been angry and hurt over her family and a sister who she's never known and who have never known her, and it has poisoned her heart like rotten fruit. She has a conscious, we've seen that. We've never seen her take that final step into the abyss that unforgiveness brings you to. I think she can be helped if it's not too late.

As for Slaine lying to her, it all depends on why he did it. If he did it to protect Asseylum because he knew that Lemrina might be a threat to her safety, or even that perhaps he knew of her murder attempt, then I don't see anything wrong with that. However, if it was for some other reason, than he needs to tell her the truth, and explain.




Despite what people say, Slaine is actually pretty selfless. Everything he does is for somebody else and he never does anything for his own pleasure or enjoyment. Sure he might have actually gotten some enjoyment here or there, but ultimately whatever he was doing was to make someone else happy, whether it was his father, Asseylum, Eddelrittuo, Saazbaum, etc.

Considering the context of that scripture you quoted, I would have to agree with you. I think Slaine will end up finding what he's looking for and more by the end of this. He might face a whole lot of trials and tribulations and make some mistakes, but he's going to be okay. He'll find that place that is "his own".

Wow. Super defender of Slaine right here. Haha.

I get that you like Slaine but imo, you're making him out to be far better than he is and reading way too much into his interactions with people like Eddelrittuo to put him in a better light. How do you know this isn't the first time he's snapped at her? I'd argue that if this happened before, she would have been far less startled when it actually happened. There's nothing to say that she and Slaine are "friends" either. They may be close as people who care for Asseylum, but there's only been ONE...maybe TWO scenes where Eddelrittuo seemed to be genuinely concerned/friendly for Slaine. All of their other interactions so far have been sterile and mostly centered around Asseylum. At this point, there's just not enough information to make a conclusion on their relationship.

As for the last part, I disagree. Ultimately whatever Slaine was/is doing wasn't/isn't to make someone else (i.e. Asseylum) but himself happy. Asseylum would gladly die for peace - Slaine would never allow that to happen because he wants to be next to Asseylum. Moreover, Asseylum wants the conflict to end. Slaine is prolonging and escalating it, directly going against her wishes and working against what she explicitly wants, even to the point where he's using her face and name to do so. And Slaine openly admitted that his happiness is contingent on him being close to Asseylum and we can probably insert this phrase after that no matter what the cost.

So ultimately, I'd argue that Slaine is working for his own happiness. This is a subtle detail, but before Saazbaum died, Slaine said "did you think I would forgive you? ...the person who shot Asseylum-hime" as if he had the right to forgive someone for shooting someone else. If Slaine were truly selfless and working for Asseylum, he would have said something like "do you think Asseylum-hime would forgive you?" or "do you think you deserve to live after what you've done?" Instead, Slaine's comments were centered on how he had been wronged, not Asseylum.

Slaine may redeem himself by the end of the series in some way. He may not. Slaine's an interesting character, no doubt, but I don't think he's good, altruistic, and selfless by any measure.
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Old 2015-03-02, 18:59   Link #204
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Originally Posted by Rennir View Post
Wait how did Mazuurek know that Asseylum was fake?
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Originally Posted by azurestratos View Post
Mazuurek asked her about Earth. Lemrina effectively avoided the question by just saying "I leave it all to my handmaiden". Then she only spouts simple sentences like "Terrans are trash". Her last sentence was as though she was talking bad about someone else while its about her/Asseylum.

I think the biggest suspicion was Lemrina's first answer that avoided the question. Next was when Mazuurek asked Eddel, only for her to say the princess went to Earth alone, which in contradictory to Lemrina's account.
It's because Lemrina's answer basically conflicts with Inaho's story. Remember in episode 17 Inaho has told him that they never exploited her and that she cooperated with them. Mazuurek has pretty much acknowledged Inaho at the end of episode 17. The way Inaho talked about Asseylum(about her not seeing birds and whatnot) and also the fact that he wanted Mazuurek to ensure Asseylum's safety suggests that Inaho and Asseylum are close yet when he asked Lemrina "There was not a single one that Your Highness grew close to?" and Lemrina answered that there was none... you can see here that Mazuurek is clearly suspicious of this answer.
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Old 2015-03-02, 19:11   Link #205
bigdeath
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Anyone who had known Asseylum's personality could tell Lemrina was a poor fake. Asseylum is a sweet and somewhat innocent girl whos too nice for her own good. She'd never make a blanket spiteful statement such as "all terrans are trash".
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Old 2015-03-02, 20:27   Link #206
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by Pegasai View Post
Wow. Super defender of Slaine right here. Haha.

I get that you like Slaine but imo, you're making him out to be far better than he is and reading way too much into his interactions with people like Eddelrittuo to put him in a better light. How do you know this isn't the first time he's snapped at her? I'd argue that if this happened before, she would have been far less startled when it actually happened. There's nothing to say that she and Slaine are "friends" either. They may be close as people who care for Asseylum, but there's only been ONE...maybe TWO scenes where Eddelrittuo seemed to be genuinely concerned/friendly for Slaine. All of their other interactions so far have been sterile and mostly centered around Asseylum. At this point, there's just not enough information to make a conclusion on their relationship.

As for the last part, I disagree. Ultimately whatever Slaine was/is doing wasn't/isn't to make someone else (i.e. Asseylum) but himself happy. Asseylum would gladly die for peace - Slaine would never allow that to happen because he wants to be next to Asseylum. Moreover, Asseylum wants the conflict to end. Slaine is prolonging and escalating it, directly going against her wishes and working against what she explicitly wants, even to the point where he's using her face and name to do so. And Slaine openly admitted that his happiness is contingent on him being close to Asseylum and we can probably insert this phrase after that no matter what the cost.

So ultimately, I'd argue that Slaine is working for his own happiness. This is a subtle detail, but before Saazbaum died, Slaine said "did you think I would forgive you? ...the person who shot Asseylum-hime" as if he had the right to forgive someone for shooting someone else. If Slaine were truly selfless and working for Asseylum, he would have said something like "do you think Asseylum-hime would forgive you?" or "do you think you deserve to live after what you've done?" Instead, Slaine's comments were centered on how he had been wronged, not Asseylum.

Slaine may redeem himself by the end of the series in some way. He may not. Slaine's an interesting character, no doubt, but I don't think he's good, altruistic, and selfless by any measure.
I tell it like I see it, this was my impressions of those scenes, and I'm not going to change how I feel because of popular opinion unless I can see it myself and agree.

With Saazbaum, I saw it as him getting vengeance for her as well as protecting her. I do agree that he probably felt some sort of enjoyment out of what he felt as justice being done (that's why I made the caveat of "he might have actually gotten some enjoyment here or there" in my statement). I will agree that he has begun to have a more selfish persona now in the 2nd cour than the first, and honestly I'm kind of glad he did. It seems like a side effect for him gaining more self-esteem.

As for Eddelrittuo, I stand by what I said. If it changes in the next few episodes, I'll acknowledge that and change my theories. However, it's what I think of her character and her relationship between Slaine and Asseylum.

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Originally Posted by bigdeath View Post
Anyone who had known Asseylum's personality could tell Lemrina was a poor fake. Asseylum is a sweet and somewhat innocent girl whos too nice for her own good. She'd never make a blanket spiteful statement such as "all terrans are trash".
The problem is nobody knows her. She never left her castle on Vers, and remember that the counts mostly stayed in orbit around Earth. Nobody really got to see her in person. In fact if you remember from what Eddelrittuo said to her back in episode 1, she held her as basically divinity incarnate and blessed of the gods. She wouldn't mix even with the nobles unless she need too. Asseylum lived in a gilded, lonely bubble.
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Old 2015-03-02, 20:53   Link #207
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Stick to you guns Irenesharda.

I do not agree with you about Slaine, but I do appreciate they way you construct your arguments, and the courteousness of your posts!
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Old 2015-03-02, 20:54   Link #208
karice67
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Originally Posted by bigdeath View Post
Anyone who had known Asseylum's personality could tell Lemrina was a poor fake. Asseylum is a sweet and somewhat innocent girl whos too nice for her own good. She'd never make a blanket spiteful statement such as "all terrans are trash".
And she didn't. Nor did Slaine.

The term was "soya na monotachi" (= 粗野な者達).

Whilst "soya" does mean 'coarse, vulgar, rude' etc, "mono(tachi)" is quite a neutral term. Though it indicates that the person using it does not think of the people in question as being of a standing above or equal to themselves, it in no way suggests that that person looks down on them with the disdain that "trash" conveys.

A better translation would have been something like "coarse, vulgar people."

Besides, Slaine would never have used language like "trash" in front of Lemrina. Nor would she have repeated it.
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Last edited by karice67; 2015-03-03 at 00:29. Reason: ...missed a word
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Old 2015-03-02, 21:31   Link #209
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
I don't know, I kind of saw her avoiding eye contact because she didn't know how to broach the subject with him. I honestly think she really wants to help him. She's been around nobles all her life, I'm sure this wasn't the first one that's snapped at her. However, it may just be the first one that apologized for it right after. I think this whole thing has been a big mess for all three players involved. Eddelrittuo may not care for Lemrina as much as she does Asseylum and Slaine, but she still doesn't want her hurt. She doesn't want anyone hurt, but she really doesn't know what to do about it. She's the connection between all 3 of these people, which puts her in an awkward position.
Not knowing how to approach a subject shows anxiety. Slaine has put things forward that even she questions. Also, no matter how you look at it, Slaine is essentially in control of the entire moonbase. Being careful about what she says and taking into account that the person in question has such a position shows she doesn't trust him not to abuse that power. I doubt Slaine really cares about anyone other than Asseylum right now. Asseylum herself is just caught between this drama.

Quote:
As for Lemrina, I don't think she deserves anything per say. However, I do think that much of her pain come from her guilt over what she tried to do to her sister. In that way, I think she sort of brought it on herself. She's been angry and hurt over her family and a sister who she's never known and who have never known her, and it has poisoned her heart like rotten fruit. She has a conscious, we've seen that. We've never seen her take that final step into the abyss that unforgiveness brings you to. I think she can be helped if it's not too late.
That wasn't directed at anyone particularly, I just know some people dislike her. Unfortunately, there's no Yagarai equivalent on the Mar's side, so she's left to these issues on her own. Eddelrituo's no longer with her, because the maid is back with Asseylum, and Slaine's spending most of his time in his landing castle with Asseylum. Still, no matter how badly Slaine treats her now, it's possible Lemrina won't ever act against him, because she's become so dependent on him, becoming a love martyr.

Quote:
As for Slaine lying to her, it all depends on why he did it. If he did it to protect Asseylum because he knew that Lemrina might be a threat to her safety, or even that perhaps he knew of her murder attempt, then I don't see anything wrong with that. However, if it was for some other reason, than he needs to tell her the truth, and explain.
There's no excuse. The audience may understand the reasons, but Lemrina herself will be the one crushed over it.

Quote:
Despite what people say, Slaine is actually pretty selfless. Everything he does is for somebody else and he never does anything for his own pleasure or enjoyment. Sure he might have actually gotten some enjoyment here or there, but ultimately whatever he was doing was to make someone else happy, whether it was his father, Asseylum, Eddelrittuo, Saazbaum, etc.

Considering the context of that scripture you quoted, I would have to agree with you. I think Slaine will end up finding what he's looking for and more by the end of this. He might face a whole lot of trials and tribulations and make some mistakes, but he's going to be okay. He'll find that place that is "his own".
That may have been true, before season 2 came around when he's all been in this for himself. Reforming Vers where the lower class aren't treated like dirt is just the byproduct. It isn't his main goal or motive. All he wants is Asseylum's approval, but he knows he'll never get it because of his methods. However, that won't stop him from trying to keep her all to himself. The main reason he moved her to his castle wasn't because her life was in any danger. The only possible threat was one person in a wheelchair, and that resolution could have happened differently.

He can't look outside himself and his obsession with Asseylum. Take his conversation with Eddelrituo. The proclamation was out of his weakness of heart, though this step had to be taken anyway to secure his place on the throne. The "miracle" happened to reprimand him for giving up on Asseylum waking up. He knows Lemrina finds solace being with him, but recognizes he will never give her what she needs, because he will not let go of Asseylum.
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Old 2015-03-02, 21:47   Link #210
Hidetoshi Nakata
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About Ingenuity of Asseylum, before meeting the Terrans.
Much of this ingenuity, comes from the teachings of Slaine, who was his tutor.
Slaine, showed a colorful world of fairy tale to Asseylum, telling stories about birds and flowers, including taught so wrong, why the sky is blue.
Slaine painted a colorful world, wonderful Earth full of life, without wars, destruction, and without malice of human beings.
Slaine, not taught Asseylum on the bad side of the world, such as wars, evil and destruction.
When Asseylum reaches Earth, it had a reality check, and and saw the colorful world, which Slaine had shown her, nothing but fantasies, Asseylum went to live with death, damage, with the war, and the struggle for survival she met the real world, and learned feeling on the skin, with the misfortunes caused by war.
Yes Asseylum was naive, plus the major culprit of this is Slaine, who was his tutor.

Slaine feel satisfaction to get back at Saazbaum, but we must remember that the Saazbaum shots only occurred because the wrong decisions of Slaine, his indecision and lack of attitude.
He could have killed Saabaum with kitchen knife in episode 8, and should not have helped Saazbaum in episode 12. Slaine was aware that Saazbaum wanted to kill the Asseylum, and also knew that Saazbaum, It was not just the fact Saazbaum want to kill Asseylum, but also the fact that Saazbaum was destroying the dreams and Princess of Peace desires.
Contrary to what he said in episode 7, which would never betray the princess, and never let them destroy her dreams.
Slaine is so cupado as Saazbaum at what happened with the Asseylum, and is also guilty of destroying the dreams and desires of Asseylum.
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Old 2015-03-02, 22:26   Link #211
Irenesharda
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Stick to you guns Irenesharda.

I do not agree with you about Slaine, but I do appreciate they way you construct your arguments, and the courteousness of your posts!
Arigato, I'm a graduate student in the middle of writing my thesis and having to defend it in a couple of months. I better know how to form an argument.

I've never seen a need to be angry or slander others if they disagree. Yet, I'm not going to change my views to suit others either. It's just a matter of opinion. Also, it's a cartoon, it's really not that serious.
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Old 2015-03-02, 22:48   Link #212
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
It's because Lemrina's answer basically conflicts with Inaho's story. Remember in episode 17 Inaho has told him that they never exploited her and that she cooperated with them. Mazuurek has pretty much acknowledged Inaho at the end of episode 17. The way Inaho talked about Asseylum(about her not seeing birds and whatnot) and also the fact that he wanted Mazuurek to ensure Asseylum's safety suggests that Inaho and Asseylum are close yet when he asked Lemrina "There was not a single one that Your Highness grew close to?" and Lemrina answered that there was none... you can see here that Mazuurek is clearly suspicious of this answer.
Mazuurek has been shown still contemplating whether what Inaho said was true or not. This is shown in monologue of previous episodes while he was walking in the desert. Though he acknowledges Inaho, he still skeptic about the narrative, thus why he wanted to find out. This is why he asked Eddel "what really happened on Earth.."

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Stick to you guns Irenesharda.

I do not agree with you about Slaine, but I do appreciate they way you construct your arguments, and the courteousness of your posts!
I second that.
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Old 2015-03-02, 23:28   Link #213
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
Not knowing how to approach a subject shows anxiety. Slaine has put things forward that even she questions. Also, no matter how you look at it, Slaine is essentially in control of the entire moonbase. Being careful about what she says and taking into account that the person in question has such a position shows she doesn't trust him not to abuse that power. I doubt Slaine really cares about anyone other than Asseylum right now. Asseylum herself is just caught between this drama.
I don't know, I don't think Slaine would talk to Eddelrittuo and share his inner thoughts with her, and stick up for her or cover for her when she wanted to visit Asseylum, or teach her about Earth during private sessions, or have her transferred to Asseylum's side when he knew she would want to be by her side after having waited all this time for her to wake up, if he didn't care about her. He could have just ignored her or not talked to her all, especially considering the disdain she showed him when he was but a servant. And especially now that he's master of the castle and base, why would he take the time to acknowledge, much less have personal conversations with, a servant girl who was basically a POW who was given another chance? I think he cares about her too. Not as much as he cares about Asseylum, but he does care about her.

Slaine has only been count for a month at the most. All those month before that, they still had a close relationship, as they bonded over what happened to Asseylum. I don't think all that inteaction and formation of a relationship just disappears all of a sudden. And friends can feel anxiety and worry about the other. In fact, it would be unusual if they didn't every now and then.

Quote:
There's no excuse. The audience may understand the reasons, but Lemrina herself will be the one crushed over it.
If it meant saving a persons life or simply protecting them from a viable threat, compared to crushed feelings? I would take the crushed feelings too. I highly doubt that Slaine could ever love another who hated Asseylum. And until Lemrina is willing to give up her hatred and her grudge, her love is going to continue to be unrequited.

Quote:
That may have been true, before season 2 came around when he's all been in this for himself. Reforming Vers where the lower class aren't treated like dirt is just the byproduct. It isn't his main goal or motive. All he wants is Asseylum's approval, but he knows he'll never get it because of his methods. However, that won't stop him from trying to keep her all to himself. The main reason he moved her to his castle wasn't because her life was in any danger. The only possible threat was one person in a wheelchair, and that resolution could have happened differently.

He can't look outside himself and his obsession with Asseylum. Take his conversation with Eddelrituo. The proclamation was out of his weakness of heart, though this step had to be taken anyway to secure his place on the throne. The "miracle" happened to reprimand him for giving up on Asseylum waking up. He knows Lemrina finds solace being with him, but recognizes he will never give her what she needs, because he will not let go of Asseylum.
I don't think he wants to keep her "all to himself". He want to protect her and make sure she's happy, but I don't really see anything beyond that. He feels enormous guilt about what happened to her, and thus his single-minded goal to make it up to her in the only way he thinks he can. Remember his, "if power is all I can give..." line?

And obviously that "person in a wheelchair" did almost kill her. And even Eddelrittuo knows the girl has made not so vague threats against her sister. I think Slaine would know too. The more space between the two the better.

I think that Slaine is seeing a connection between himself and Lemrina, but unless she gives up that grudge against the royal family, and namely Asseylum, he will continue steeling his heart against her. It's like wanting to fall in love with someone who wants to murder your best friend; it makes thing a little awkward.
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Old 2015-03-02, 23:54   Link #214
Wandering Soul
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
And she didn't. Nor did Slaine.

The term was "soya na monotachi" (= 粗野な者達).

Whilst "soya" does mean 'coarse, vulgar, rude' etc, "mono(tachi)" is quite a neutral term. Though it indicates that the person using it does think of the people in question as being of a standing above or equal to themselves, it in no way suggests that that person looks down on them with the disdain that "trash" conveys.

A better translation would have been something like "coarse, vulgar people."

Besides, Slaine would never have used language like "trash" in front of Lemrina. Nor would she have repeated it.
That makes sense since calling Terrans trash makes it seem like Lemeria is not even trying to act remotely like Asseylum.

The way she actually said it is a bit more believable.
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Old 2015-03-02, 23:59   Link #215
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I don't think he wants to keep her "all to himself". He want to protect her and make sure she's happy, but I don't really see anything beyond that. He feels enormous guilt about what happened to her, and thus his single-minded goal to make it up to her in the only way he thinks he can. Remember his, "if power is all I can give..." line?
But shouldn't he know that Asseylum don't want war, and that would make her unhappy? Cause what's he doing is pretty much against what she stood for. Not to mention that he even used her identity for his causes.

I'm sorry, but had he not used Lemrina disguised as Asseylum as his mouthpiece, I would have believe it more. Oh sure Saazbaum may have been the one to proposed it, but he could have tell him to use Lemrina herself - as the sister to the beloved princess - to promote the war.
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Old 2015-03-03, 00:23   Link #216
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
But shouldn't he know that Asseylum don't want war, and that would make her unhappy? Cause what's he doing is pretty much against what she stood for. Not to mention that he even used her identity for his causes.

I'm sorry, but had he not used Lemrina disguised as Asseylum as his mouthpiece, I would have believe it more. Oh sure Saazbaum may have been the one to proposed it, but he could have tell him to use Lemrina herself - as the sister to the beloved princess - to promote the war.
He can't stop the war, so he might as well use it. The war has fueled itself and kept itself going for 19 months without him doing anything. Him just telling them to stop would do nothing. Sometimes even those in charge are bound by their underlings, Rayregalia being an example.

I do think that he's gone a bit too far at this point, but I can't rightfully say the war would have ended if he commanded them too. He would have lost whatever power and voice he had with the other counts, and they would have continued like they always have.

As for Saazbaum, he wasn't in any position to tell or command the man to do anything, especially since he was holding Asseylum at his base, full of people who were loyal to him. No one knows about Lemrina. Her family, the other counts, no one, so using her would raise too many questions. He didn't care for Asseylum anyway, so why wouldn't he have used her image for his own purpose? Asseylum has more power that comes from her name and image than Lemrina would have, even if he revealed her. (I honestly think he was keeping Lemrina as an ace in the hole since he saw her as unrelated from the central royal family that he's sworn vengeance against. If Asseylum and the emperor dies, Lemrina would be the only person with full Aldnoah rights left, and since he had guardianship over her....)

As for Slaine, he's only been count and in charge for a month at most. The only time he's used her image was for the earthspace announcement. Lemrina did that of her own volition, and she didn't use it to promote the war but to actually say that it was about time the war ended. And Slaine has since admitted that he even did that because he fell to depression and made a mistake.
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Old 2015-03-03, 00:34   Link #217
bigdeath
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
And she didn't. Nor did Slaine.

The term was "soya na monotachi" (= 粗野な者達).

Whilst "soya" does mean 'coarse, vulgar, rude' etc, "mono(tachi)" is quite a neutral term. Though it indicates that the person using it does not think of the people in question as being of a standing above or equal to themselves, it in no way suggests that that person looks down on them with the disdain that "trash" conveys.

A better translation would have been something like "coarse, vulgar people."

Besides, Slaine would never have used language like "trash" in front of Lemrina. Nor would she have repeated it.
Even vulgar sounds too harsh. It sounds like she said terrans are a coarse and unrefined people.

Still, its interesting how stuble meaning can be lost in translation.
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Old 2015-03-03, 00:46   Link #218
Kurohane
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
I don't know, I don't think Slaine would talk to Eddelrittuo and share his inner thoughts with her, and stick up for her or cover for her when she wanted to visit Asseylum, or teach her about Earth during private sessions, or have her transferred to Asseylum's side when he knew she would want to be by her side after having waited all this time for her to wake up, if he didn't care about her. He could have just ignored her or not talked to her all, especially considering the disdain she showed him when he was but a servant. And especially now that he's master of the castle and base, why would he take the time to acknowledge, much less have personal conversations with, a servant girl who was basically a POW who was given another chance? I think he cares about her too. Not as much as he cares about Asseylum, but he does care about her.
Most of this is just conjecture on what happened behind the scenes that we're not aware of. Also, Slaine has learned to flatter people over the past 19 months. Really, the interactions with the maid aren't all that surprising. Also, they aren't that deep either. You can take the scene between them in episode 20 as confiding in her, but it can be for a different reason other than he considers her a friend. For instance, he just took it as chance to vent, and it didn't matter if it was Eddelrituo or not. The conversation was originally about the proclamation, "'do you still plan to continue with that?', 'will you try to persuade Princess Asseylum to go through with it?', 'what about Princess Lemrina?', 'Really, where does this go from here?'" is what Eddelrituo really wanted to know, and it quickly turned into his self-lamenting.

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Slaine has only been count for a month at the most. All those month before that, they still had a close relationship, as they bonded over what happened to Asseylum. I don't think all that inteaction and formation of a relationship just disappears all of a sudden. And friends can feel anxiety and worry about the other. In fact, it would be unusual if they didn't every now and then.
Again, we didn't see this.

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If it meant saving a persons life or simply protecting them from a viable threat, compared to crushed feelings? I would take the crushed feelings too. I highly doubt that Slaine could ever love another who hated Asseylum. And until Lemrina is willing to give up her hatred and her grudge, her love is going to continue to be unrequited.
How dangerous is one person, especially one in a wheelchair? If access to the module of Asseylum's life support is so unguarded that anyone can mess with it, that's a security issue. In the end, Lemrina proved to be no threat to Asseylum despite her boasting. It's only a problem of what we assume to turn into now, because Slaine ultimately choose Asseylum over her and instead of being honest, manipulated her feelings. He does love his princess. Lemrina can see it, and he doesn't deny it.

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I don't think he wants to keep her "all to himself". He want to protect her and make sure she's happy, but I don't really see anything beyond that. He feels enormous guilt about what happened to her, and thus his single-minded goal to make it up to her in the only way he thinks he can. Remember his, "if power is all I can give..." line?
Is this another translation error, because in the subs I had, it was "If power is the only thing I can win now, that is. . .". This is still when he gave up on Asseylum ever regaining conscious.

If Asseylum were to ask to go down to Earth with Mazurek to meet with Inaho, you believe Slaine would allow her?

Quote:
And obviously that "person in a wheelchair" did almost kill her. And even Eddelrittuo knows the girl has made not so vague threats against her sister. I think Slaine would know too. The more space between the two the better.

I think that Slaine is seeing a connection between himself and Lemrina, but unless she gives up that grudge against the royal family, and namely Asseylum, he will continue steeling his heart against her. It's like wanting to fall in love with someone who wants to murder your best friend; it makes thing a little awkward.
Almost being the key word here, and that's better than Slaine who shot Inaho out of fear his place was taken. In this case, Lemrina didn't "pull the trigger". Anyway, keeping it a secret is just going to blow up in his face. So, how was that the better option? It was better to tell the truth, have Lemrina meet Asseylum with supervision if necessary, and have them get acquainted. Lemrina is similar to Rayet in how they both were envious of Asseylum of the better treatment she got. In the end, Rayet put aside her hatred, even helping Asseylum get to the Deucalion to head to Saazbaum's castle, but she wouldn't have been able to do it had she not gotten to know her.
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Old 2015-03-03, 02:10   Link #219
Pegasai
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
I tell it like I see it, this was my impressions of those scenes, and I'm not going to change how I feel because of popular opinion unless I can see it myself and agree.
And what I'm saying is that your impressions of those scenes are colored by your desire to see Slaine in the best possible light. Obviously, you're free to believe what you want, but frankly, judging from your posts, it's almost jaw dropping just how far you to bat for Slaine. More so considering that you don't give Lemrina the benefit of the doubt and use her hatred for the royal family as justification for Slaine lying to her.

Also, there's a reason that things become popular opinions & accepted theories. It's because that's how a normal, reasonable, and often (but not always) unbiased person would interpret those scenes.


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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
As for Eddelrittuo, I stand by what I said. If it changes in the next few episodes, I'll acknowledge that and change my theories. However, it's what I think of her character and her relationship between Slaine and Asseylum.
The thing is...I don't think it will "change" much in the next few episodes. There's only a few episode left and I don't think the writers are interested in exploring too deeply into Slaine's and Eddelrittuo's relationship. While Eddelrittuo is an important character, she's only important because of her association with Asseylum. That's also another reason why I don't think Slaine and Eddelrittuo are close - had they been close, they would have developed her character and relationship with Slaine far more a la Slaine & Harklight or Slaine & Lemrina. Instead, we get short conversations between them about Asseylum. That makes me think that there's nothing deeper to their relationship than that.
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Old 2015-03-03, 03:02   Link #220
Hidetoshi Nakata
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Originally Posted by Pegasai View Post
And what I'm saying is that your impressions of those scenes are colored by your desire to see Slaine in the best possible light. Obviously, you're free to believe what you want, but frankly, judging from your posts, it's almost jaw dropping just how far you to bat for Slaine. More so considering that you don't give Lemrina the benefit of the doubt and use her hatred for the royal family as justification for Slaine lying to her.

Also, there's a reason that things become popular opinions & accepted theories. It's because that's how a normal, reasonable, and often (but not always) unbiased person would interpret those scenes.




The thing is...I don't think it will "change" much in the next few episodes. There's only a few episode left and I don't think the writers are interested in exploring too deeply into Slaine's and Eddelrittuo's relationship. While Eddelrittuo is an important character, she's only important because of her association with Asseylum. That's also another reason why I don't think Slaine and Eddelrittuo are close - had they been close, they would have developed her character and relationship with Slaine far more a la Slaine & Harklight or Slaine & Lemrina. Instead, we get short conversations between them about Asseylum. That makes me think that there's nothing deeper to their relationship than that.

i agree with you.
https://forums.animesuki.com/showthr...27358&page=113
you can get a better sense if you read the post in 2259.
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