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View Poll Results: Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 2 3.77%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 17 32.08%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 35.85%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 20.75%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.89%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.89%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 3.77%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2015-03-21, 23:32   Link #161
karice67
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Why is there something that I find myself having to correct every single week??? orz

In defense of Assylum, she is doing what she believes is needed to solve the problems laid down by her father and grandfather.

There is a nuance that has been lost in translation from Rayregalia’s words to her in this episode:

Quote:
Aldnoah is the technology we dreamed of... It will make mankind happy. (Asseylum: Yes) It is a great power. It must not be misused. Nurture it with care.
Seems like Rayregalia kept Aldnoah from Earth’s leaders back in the 1970s and 1980s because he could not trust them to use it properly, with humanity’s interests in mind. Quite possible: after all, the Cold War had been occurring until then. It’s not difficult to imagine that the rulers of Earth might end up using Aldnoah to continue their enmity against each other. Whoever we assign blame to, this is where the conflict began.

But what he says to Asseylum next is this: “Become a fine princess, and lead mankind to happiness." He didn't say 'the people of Vers', or 'our country's people', just "hito," repeating the word that was earlier translated as "mankind." In short: yes, we have another frigging mistranslation.

Although his ideals were twisted because of the system he ended up setting up on Vers, I’d argue that even Rayregalia only had the best interests of humanity in mind. But if so, it’s incredibly ironic that the ‘state’ he created ended up is the one that set off this interplanetary conflict.

So this is what Asseylum is trying to do now: end the war, and make sure that the Aldnoah power is used for the benefit of all humankind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Slaine just recently called Earthlings 'trash'.
NO, he didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
The term was "soya na monotachi" (= 粗野な者達).

Whilst "soya" does mean 'coarse, vulgar, rude' etc, "mono(tachi)" is quite a neutral term. Though it indicates that the person using it does not think of the people in question as being of a standing above or equal to themselves, it in no way suggests that that person looks down on them with the disdain that "trash" conveys.

A better translation would have been something like "coarse, vulgar people."

Besides, Slaine would never have used language like "trash" in front of Lemrina. Nor would she have repeated it.
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Last edited by karice67; 2015-03-22 at 20:27.
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Old 2015-03-21, 23:33   Link #162
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
No, this current conflict was started by Saazbaum's false flag operation.
Let's be honest here, though - Rayregalia is no peace-lover.

Yes, he was clearly suffering from senility in his one meeting with Asseylum, but those were nonetheless raw sincere emotions coming out of him. I have little doubt that he held a considerable grudge against Earth due to the death of his son. And back in Season 1, Rayregalia was pretty eager to go along with Saazbaum and renew hostilities between Earth and Vers.

Let's not kid ourselves here - Asseylum's peace-loving position is very much out of step with a lot of Vers Knights, likely most of them. The Vers Knights are by and large a bunch of self-centered war-mongers that just want to get as big a piece of Earth as they can for their own gain. Slaine may well have thought that getting these guys to agree to peace with Earth was an impossible dream to begin with.
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Old 2015-03-21, 23:40   Link #163
EternalSpringFlower
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yes, he was clearly suffering from senility in his one meeting with Asseylum, but those were nonetheless raw sincere emotions coming out of him. I have little doubt that he held a considerable grudge against Earth due to the death of his son. And back in Season 1, Rayregalia was pretty eager to go along with Saazbaum and renew hostilities between Earth and Vers.
Which begs a question of how much did Asseylum know back in 1 cour? When she was essentially trying to stop the war the current ruler 1) started 2) wanted? Was she going to openly oppose Rayregalia? Did she think he only started it because of her supposed death? From his emotions on his deathbed it's obvious he was never really into the idea of peace, diplomacy or no diplomacy, he wasn't the kind old Emperor who only started to act because he was sad the Earth killed the princess.
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Old 2015-03-21, 23:46   Link #164
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Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower View Post
But there is. They could have worked together to change the plans and come up with some sort of explanation. But that would have required cooperation from both sides. Not just Slaine giving up, calling for a ceasefire and then allowing himself to be imprisoned by Asseylum. Not just Asseylum demanding he bows to her again.
And I don't believe Asseylum is ready for that. She is pretty... unbending. Which is fitting for a future ruler, I guess. It was obvious from the moment with the gun, it's her way or no way.
Maybe, but I really think he didn't expect to wake up, so by time she woke up it was already too late.

Then again, for there to be any peace, they really need to get rid off Aldnoah privilege and the class system of Vers. I still think that is where the story is headed towards. All this talk of cooperation and peace for mankind, something big must happen. I sincerely hope for the sake of this show Slaine's plain is that. Cause if not, the story would be generic as hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Let's be honest here, though - Rayregalia is no peace-lover.

Yes, he was clearly suffering from senility in his one meeting with Asseylum, but those were nonetheless raw sincere emotions coming out of him. I have little doubt that he held a considerable grudge against Earth due to the death of his son. And back in Season 1, Rayregalia was pretty eager to go along with Saazbaum and renew hostilities between Earth and Vers.

Let's not kid ourselves here - Asseylum's peace-loving position is very much out of step with a lot of Vers Knights, likely most of them. The Vers Knights are by and large a bunch of self-centered war-mongers that just want to get as big a piece of Earth as they can for their own gain. Slaine may well have thought that getting these guys to agree to peace with Earth was an impossible dream to begin with.
Honestly, Asseylum calling for peace is not going to last. At best it is only a short term solution.
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Old 2015-03-21, 23:55   Link #165
karice67
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Let's be honest here, though - Rayregalia is no peace-lover.
I'll have to disagree.

I don't know exactly what corrupted his ideals in the intervening years, to the extent that he would be so easily convinced by Saazbaum to restart the war (admittedly, Saaz was one of his two most trusted advisors, going by the promo material), but I think this episode suggests quite strongly that he originally wanted Aldnoah to be used for the good of all mankind, and that this was why he didn't want to give its power to the leaders of countries that had only come out of the Cold War because they could all go and compete to colonise Mars (back in the 1970s and 1980s).

At least, the episode would show this, if the translation had been fully accurate. But I've given up on the translator...and I'm giving up on correcting their mistakes here too, as it seems to be a futile effort on my part.
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Last edited by karice67; 2015-03-22 at 04:17.
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:11   Link #166
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Okay Inaho can actually converse with his eye now, that's a surprise but I guess it's too late after all the superscience shenanigans this show pulled with all the Aldnoah tech. Slaine's actions are hardly surprising and frankly it's good he's being consistent in going through with it. Asseylum's declaration after hearing Rayreglia's deepest wish is a pretty good development for her, if just for her commitment and responsibility befitting her position and her wish to bring peace between the two planets.

The romance angle is being blown way out of proportion with relation to the main story by the viewers beyond going "NTR lol" and "Slaine a shit" every week. As much as I enjoy the developments, the weak romance just serves to hide the mediocre development around the war, which really needs more weight behind it. Not a word from Slaine on his plans to solve the Aldonoah issue central to the problems plaguing the Vers people at this endgame stage. His decision to carry Saazbaum's torch was half-assed beyond enabling him to protect Asseylum and could have used touched upon just abit more. Inaho and to a extent the Earth side has been reactionary to the Vers invastion and very regrettable that nothing more was developed.

I doubt there will be a satisfying ending given the multiple issues to address before the finale but I hope those that are touched upon will at least be reasonable.
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:16   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What else could she have done that was at all practical? She already tried talking. Twice.
But Asseylum is not really talking to Slaine. She isn't acting like she is interested in what's going on with him. She isn't trying to reason with him. She isn't trying to find some middle ground or come to an understanding.
She is ordering/asking him to do as she says. That's all she wants or needs from him. She isn't interested in him beyond that.

That's how it's been from the moment she pretended to be Lemrina. She said he'd changed--and at that moment she dismissed him completely. She never cared enough to even ask what happened to him.

That's why I don't believe she thinks of him as a friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Maybe, but I really think he didn't expect to wake up, so by time she woke up it was already too late.

Honestly, Asseylum calling for peace is not going to last. At best it is only a short term solution.
I think even if he expected her to wake up, he always knew it would end like this. Notice he's not surprised by her reactions. He accepted the rejection a long time ago, and I'm not talking about NTR.

She's lucky Rayregalia died. It would have been funny if she approached him and he was like, peace, what peace, go back into your high tower, dear princess.
I do believe he cared for the mankind, but I also think he sees the Terran government as evil and corrupted.
I also think he might be right.
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:24   Link #168
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So Inaho raises a bunch of death flags that more or less nearly guarantees his untimely demise and Slaine gets NTR'd by yet another person. Though I suppose this also means Inaho got NTR'd? Oh well Inko is best waifu anyway since the chances of wincest with Yuki-nee is slim to none.

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Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
The romance angle is being blown way out of proportion with relation to the main story by the viewers beyond going "NTR lol" and "Slaine a shit" every week. As much as I enjoy the developments, the weak romance just serves to hide the mediocre development around the war, which really needs more weight behind it. Not a word from Slaine on his plans to solve the Aldonoah issue central to the problems plaguing the Vers people at this endgame stage. His decision to carry Saazbaum's torch was half-assed beyond enabling him to protect Asseylum and could have used touched upon just abit more. Inaho and to a extent the Earth side has been reactionary to the Vers invastion and very regrettable that nothing more was developed.
The mediocrity of Aldnoah.Zero's plot is hardly a secret and the romance, if you can even call it that, is the only thing remotely worth watching this season. I mean honestly after S1, did you seriously expect this anime to have any semblance of a decent story?
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:27   Link #169
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If only Shinji Ogawa reprise his role sooner in Ep. 23...

Still, what a surprise that Asseylum will succeed as Empress and marry Count Klancain! On the other hand, I have a feeling that Inaho's personality will cease to exist as his Analytical Engine will take over next week!
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:30   Link #170
Hidetoshi Nakata
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Even if the source of Aldnoah power is destroyed.
Nothing will change, instead of using Aldnoah weapons, they would use common weapons and continue the war.
Social difference always existed in any system, if you are a politician, you are already on a different social class of an ordinary person.
Harklight is the one who knows that Slaine want to get rid of aldnoah power, I doubt that other counts agree with that idea.
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:35   Link #171
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I'm pretty sure the Marriage things is for Asseylum to pass the throne to Klancain legally before give up on her identity as Asseylum and assumed the identity of Seylum. As we all know, Inaho main pairing is still Seylum at this point.
Lemrina.
That's what Asseylum might do. Pass the throne to Lemrina who proves her worth once more during the finale and then go be free as Seylum.
Walk the green Earth she dreamed about while holding Inaho and Slaine by the hands like in that drawing they showed in the ED.
Lemrina will get Klancain as her consort and the satisfaction of finally being someone who matters.
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:38   Link #172
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Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower View Post
Lemrina.
That's what Asseylum might do. Pass the throne to Lemrina who proves her worth once more during the finale and then go be free as Seylum.
Walk the green Earth she dreamed about while holding Inaho and Slaine by the hands like in that drawing they showed in the ED.
Lemrina will get Klancain as her consort and the satisfaction of finally being someone who matters.
this actually is sounding pretty reasonable. Lemrina position pretty much guarantee death flags as she continue to stay with Slaine, in the event that she stay alive, she is still has nothings going for her, if Asseylum disappear, Lemrina will become the sole princess left.
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Old 2015-03-22, 00:51   Link #173
kyp275
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Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower View Post
But Asseylum is not really talking to Slaine. She isn't acting like she is interested in what's going on with him. She isn't trying to reason with him. She isn't trying to find some middle ground or come to an understanding.
She is ordering/asking him to do as she says. That's all she wants or needs from him. She isn't interested in him beyond that.
She did the talking, she already knows what he's doing, reasoning has been done, multiple times, the result of which has been her imprisonment by his orders.

This is taking place in the middle of an interplanetary genocidal war, what do you expect her to do, continue to plead her case to an already proven unsympathetic opponent with nothing more than "pretty please?" to back it up?

Quote:
That's how it's been from the moment she pretended to be Lemrina. She said he'd changed--and at that moment she dismissed him completely. She never cared enough to even ask what happened to him.

That's why I don't believe she thinks of him as a friend.

I think even if he expected her to wake up, he always knew it would end like this. Notice he's not surprised by her reactions. He accepted the rejection a long time ago, and I'm not talking about NTR.
Dude, go ahead and start a genocidal war against mankind, and then lock your girlfriend in a room, and see whether she rejects you or not.

She doesn't think of him as a friend? forget about friend, married couples have split and turned to total hatred against each other for far less than what Slaine has done.
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Old 2015-03-22, 01:11   Link #174
Tormenk
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Let's be honest here, though - Rayregalia is no peace-lover.

Yes, he was clearly suffering from senility in his one meeting with Asseylum, but those were nonetheless raw sincere emotions coming out of him. I have little doubt that he held a considerable grudge against Earth due to the death of his son. And back in Season 1, Rayregalia was pretty eager to go along with Saazbaum and renew hostilities between Earth and Vers.
That he didn't restart the war and was willing to let Asseylum go on a goodwill mission to Earth, and called a truce when news broke of her apparent death speaks greater for him methinks. He acted responsibly and rationally in hopes of a better outcome and it's befitting his leadership status rather than his personal wishes.

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Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
The mediocrity of Aldnoah.Zero's plot is hardly a secret and the romance, if you can even call it that, is the only thing remotely worth watching this season. I mean honestly after S1, did you seriously expect this anime to have any semblance of a decent story?
Yes I would. Start of S2 was ripe for meaningful developments but Saauzbaum's agenda (and the Vers angle) faltered after his death. That Slaine would carry through and lend more credence to his actions by explaining his 'grand plan' was ideal but that was not the case. The romance inclusion only really got more spotlight with a few eps into S2 and only served as character motivation for Inaho and Slaine. Given there was no shift of focus I think it's fair to expect more from the story to develop more than the late romance included mid-way.
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Old 2015-03-22, 01:32   Link #175
EternalSpringFlower
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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
Lemrina position pretty much guarantee death flags as she continue to stay with Slaine, in the event that she stay alive, she is still has nothings going for her, if Asseylum disappear, Lemrina will become the sole princess left.
Lemrina's death is too obvious, it needs a twist. Though I'm not sure it's possible to resolve everything in just one single episode.
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Dude, go ahead and start a genocidal war against mankind, and then lock your girlfriend in a room, and see whether she rejects you or not.
It was her life support system, not her prison.
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
This is taking place in the middle of an interplanetary genocidal war, what do you expect her to do, continue to plead her case to an already proven unsympathetic opponent with nothing more than "pretty please?" to back it up?
See, you are repeating exactly the same thing as Asseylum. Assuming there is no meeting each other in the middle, that the only thing she can do is get her way immediately, whether with a pretty please or with a loaded gun. That's either her mistake (she's too used to him being unable to challenge her) or her attitude (I think both).

But that's the point of Slaine 2.0, it's not so much about him becoming a ruthless ruler. It's about him not being gullible and submissive any more. He used to love her while standing one step below her, always looking up at her, but no more. She can go to war against him, or they can meet each other halfway, but she can't rule him anymore. In a way, he was becoming more worthy of her love because the two should be equals for that--only he also became corrupted in the process.

So pleading her case won't help. Because it still doesn't take Slaine himself into account. It's just another way of getting her way, just doing it nicely.

She could start with actually asking what he truly wanted. Like, okay, here I am, I woke up, where do we go from here? Let's have a little heart to heart like old friends should. What happened to you while I was out of it? How did you really spend all this time? What are you looking for? Asking him to explain everything himself, not relying on info from other people who have their own agenda. Demonstrating a little trust instead of deceiving him right off the go wouldn't hurt, either.

She did go to Earth once for diplomatic negotiations, remember? Was she also planning to conduct those negotiations by demanding them to obey her wishes or else? That's not how it's done.
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Old 2015-03-22, 01:37   Link #176
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Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower View Post
Lemrina.
That's what Asseylum might do. Pass the throne to Lemrina who proves her worth once more during the finale and then go be free as Seylum.
Walk the green Earth she dreamed about while holding Inaho and Slaine by the hands like in that drawing they showed in the ED.
Lemrina will get Klancain as her consort and the satisfaction of finally being someone who matters.
But what about the shippers Team Slaine and Team Inaho wants to know who Asseylum loves not a sticken cop out ending were it a 3 way realtionship. Scarcasm. But shippers will be pissed but Who knows how the anime will end.
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Old 2015-03-22, 01:50   Link #177
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But what about the shippers Team Slaine and Team Inaho wants to know who Asseylum loves not a sticken cop out ending were it a 3 way realtionship. Scarcasm. But shippers will be pissed but Who knows how the anime will end.
She loves the people of Vers, she did say it herself.

I definitely don't think she has any romantic feelings for Slaine (she isn't jealous about Lemrina's relationship with him, for example, not even a little bit).

She might have romantic feelings for Inaho, and I'm certain he does have feelings for her, but them having a romantic ending together would be too sugary sweet. It might happen, because AZ isn't really grim or tragic despite having a war as its main story. Notice how many important cute characters died so far (Saazbaum isn't cute enough even if someone likes older guys xD). Now compare the result to Valvrave or Code Geass, and I'm not revealing more to avoid spoilers.

So what do we have left? Asseylum the empress in a political marriage. (Too realistic.) Dead Asseylum. (Come on, she's immortal, she can't be killed without fans laughing hysterically now.) A hot sexy threesome for both shippers and yaoi fangirls. (Never going to happen.)

An innocent, cute ending praising everyone's friendship? Why not, especially if one remembers another recent title Urobuchi worked on.
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Old 2015-03-22, 01:54   Link #178
kyp275
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Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower View Post
It was her life support system, not her prison.
What did you think happened after Asseylum confronted Slaine?

Quote:
See, you are repeating exactly the same thing as Asseylum. Assuming there is no meeting each other in the middle, that the only thing she can do is get her way immediately, whether with a pretty please or with a loaded gun. That's either her mistake (she's too used to him being unable to challenge her) or her attitude (I think both).
Do you meet Hitler/Stalin "in the middle" too?

Quote:
In a way, he was becoming more worthy of her love because the two should be equals for that--only he also became corrupted in the process.
In an extremely twisted sort of way, maybe... no hell no, not even then. That's like saying someone who was too meek became more "deserving" of another's love after he decided to become a serial killer.

Quote:
So pleading her case won't help. Because it still doesn't take Slaine himself into account. It's just another way of getting her way, just doing it nicely.
It doesn't work because appealing to the conscience of a genocidal mass murderer is usually a lost cause. Taking Slaine into account means going along with him on his little genocidal power trip.

Quote:
She could start with actually asking what he truly wanted. Like, okay, here I am, I woke up, where do we go from here? Let's have a little heart to heart like old friends should. What happened to you while I was out of it? How did you really spend all this time? What are you looking for? Asking him to explain everything himself, not relying on info from other people who have their own agenda. Demonstrating a little trust instead of deceiving him right off the go wouldn't hurt, either.
- Destroy Earth
- Destroy Earth
- Decided he wanted to destroy Earth
- Planning on destroying Earth
- Destroying Earth
- Yup, still want to destroy Earth.
- You should probably ask who started deceiving whom at the start.

Quote:
She did go to Earth once for diplomatic negotiations, remember? Was she also planning to conduct those negotiations by demanding them to obey her wishes or else? That's not how it's done.
A diplomatic mission that was to happen during peace time, not in the middle of a war.

What you proposed is akin to asking Jihadi John's parents to go to Syria and negotiate for their son to stop beheading people, good luck with that one.
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Old 2015-03-22, 02:04   Link #179
EternalSpringFlower
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What did you think happened after Asseylum confronted Slaine?
He did that after she confronted him, revealing the lack of potential compromise. Nothing indicated he planned to do it since the beginning.
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Do you meet Hitler/Stalin "in the middle" too?
This comparison is unwarranted.
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
That's like saying someone who was too meek became more "deserving" of another's love after he decided to become a serial killer.
He was a prisoner and a servant, he became a king. A dark king, yes.
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It doesn't work because appealing to the conscience of a genocidal mass murderer is usually a lost cause. Taking Slaine into account means going along with him on his little genocidal power trip.
He has deeper motivations than a power trip. If he only wanted that, he wouldn't have been so conflicted internally.
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What you proposed is akin to asking Jihadi John's parents to go to Syria and negotiate for their son to stop beheading people, good luck with that one.
I still don't find the comparison a working one, and my point is being missed again.
"Slaine, whatever you are doing, stop right this minute!"--that's not negotiating. That's talking from the position of power. Giving an order.
"Slaine, let's talk about what we both want, what our priorities are and what we can do together to assure the best possible outcome for us both." --that's negotiating.
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Old 2015-03-22, 02:10   Link #180
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Let's be honest here, though - Rayregalia is no peace-lover.

Yes, he was clearly suffering from senility in his one meeting with Asseylum, but those were nonetheless raw sincere emotions coming out of him. I have little doubt that he held a considerable grudge against Earth due to the death of his son. And back in Season 1, Rayregalia was pretty eager to go along with Saazbaum and renew hostilities between Earth and Vers.

Let's not kid ourselves here - Asseylum's peace-loving position is very much out of step with a lot of Vers Knights, likely most of them. The Vers Knights are by and large a bunch of self-centered war-mongers that just want to get as big a piece of Earth as they can for their own gain. Slaine may well have thought that getting these guys to agree to peace with Earth was an impossible dream to begin with.
Even if that were true, the current conflict would never have happened without Saazbaum.

Yes, tensions were there, and yes, war might have broken out eventually. But who knows when that 'eventually' might have been. It could have been 5 or even 10 years in the future. Maybe Asseylum's peace overtures might have made some small difference.

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Originally Posted by EternalSpringFlower View Post
He did that after she confronted him, revealing the lack of potential compromise. Nothing indicated he planned to do it since the beginning.
Slaine knows what Asseylum wanted and that everything he was doing was against her will. He must have been planning to lock her up.

This comparison is unwarranted.

Quote:
I still don't find the comparison a working one, and my point is being missed again.
"Slaine, whatever you are doing, stop right this minute!"--that's not negotiating. That's talking from the position of power. Giving an order.
"Slaine, let's talk about what we both want, what our priorities are and what we can do together to assure the best possible outcome for us both." --that's negotiating.
Again, Slaine knows exactly what she wants, and what her priorities are and what her best possible outcome is. He is actively working as far as possible from all of these.

Slaine has already shown he has no intention of any compromise through his actions. How can any negotiation take place like that? She confirmed that when she talked to him
as Lemrina.
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