Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Draco Spirit]

Well I rather enjoyed the Force Awakens. The hero's were obviously in their "newb" stages. So I expect more elaborate lightsaber battles latter. The villains seemed nicely fleshed out and more human than in the previous films as well.

[kaizerknight01]

[Ithekro]

I did like that they kept the structure of the film consistent with the previous six. It starts with Lucasfilm and does have any credits in the start. The Disney and Bad Robot stuff were at the end.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Nope, more bewildered then "emotional." No need to be patronising. I just find your conclusions to be mildly absurd.

No one's patronizing you.
I find that it is sad that so many people in Hollywood just cobble garbage (in storyline) together these days and the public gobbles it up, but I guess companies like WalMart and McDonalds wouldn't be so popular if people valued quality anymore. People's lack of seeing how bad this screen play was should not be a surprise I suppose.
Star Wars is definitely the fast-food of film.

This gent got much of what I see as wrong with this film across quite well, though I don't agree with him entirely on all points:

Spoiler for SPOILER ALERT, Don't watch if you have not seen the movie.:

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by monster

More bad news, more unknown, more reasons to get mad.

I sware if Kylo Ren turns out to be a MRA parody i'm walking.

If he gets upset that he was beaten by a woman. I walk. Because thats going to stir up sooo much crap.

[Shinji103]

I was trying to avoid all the whining and complaining going on here, but it's hard.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I find that it is sad that so many people in Hollywood just cobble garbage (in storyline) together these days and the public gobbles it up, but I guess companies like WalMart and McDonalds wouldn't be so popular if people valued quality anymore. People's lack of seeing how bad this screen play was should not be a surprise I suppose.
Star Wars is definitely the fast-food of film.

Or so whiners would like to think.
While there are movies that fall under this description, there are a great many that don't and are still labeled as such anyway by whiners looking for things to complain about.
And basically saying that anybody who doesn't agree with you doesn't understand or value quality anymore does not help your argument. You're essentially just saying "I'm right, and you're all stupid for disagreeing with me."

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

If he gets upset that he was beaten by a woman. I walk. Because thats going to stir up sooo much crap.

Since when did Star Wars ever pull sexist crap like this?

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I was trying to avoid all the whining and complaining going on here, but it's hard.
Or so whiners would like to think.
While there are movies that fall under this description, there are a great many that don't and are still labeled as such anyway by whiners looking for things to complain about.
And basically saying that anybody who doesn't agree with you doesn't understand or value quality anymore does not help your argument. You're essentially just saying "I'm right, and you're all stupid for disagreeing with me."


Since when did Star Wars ever pull sexist crap like this?

There is no whining or complaining.
There is observation of serious flaws in this script.
It's weak to say the least, and many have pointed this out.
The die-hard fanboys cannot handle this and are trying to defend this to the death with all manner of excuses which only adds to the fact that the storyline is terrible.
To put it in perspective, this storyline is on par with Battle Beyond the Stars, a Roger Corman film.

As for criteria as to what makes for a great Science Fiction story, the only work that goes into depth on it from an academic standpoint is James Gunns' seven volume treatise "The Road to Science Fiction."
So yes, anyone who has read that treatise has a really good idea of what is and is not, quality SF.
This story is obviously junk-food that using Professor Gunn's criteria barely qualifies as Future Fantasy (it's more like a Disney Fairy Tale) and does not even come close to being actual science fiction in the literary sense of the term.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Since when did Star Wars ever pull sexist crap like this?

Exaaaactly! If Jar Jar Abrams pulls it, I'm going to be mad. =\

[Ithekro]

Star Wars had always been Fantasy. That was straight from George Lucas in 1977. It never really tried to be Science Fiction in the traditional sense. It was Fantasy mixed with 1930s serials in style and it hasn't really changed in 2015 from that style.

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Exaaaactly! If Jar Jar Abrams pulls it, I'm going to be mad. =\

Abrams is not directing the other two films.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Exaaaactly! If Jar Jar Abrams pulls it, I'm going to be mad. =\

Huh?

I'm saying Star Wars has never been sexist like "I can't believe a girl beat me!" before, so why are you expecting to get it from Kylo Ren for losing to Rey?

[Ithekro]

I liked this film. It wasn't overly amazing, but it kept me amused. There were a few things I wanted to know more about that were skipped. There were times I wanted the story to slow down for a second to catch the audience up on things, but it mostly wasn't needed. The story I suppose treated the audience like they didn't need to explain everything to them.

The only problem I had with the story was the "space is small...you can see other planets easily from light years away" problem that happens from time to time, when in reality, you'd might never see such things happen, or if you do, it will be years later. That was artistic license I guess, like that ships make sound in space and have to bank like airplanes to turn.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

It all makes sense now...

[Darthtabby]

I found the film disappointing. I liked the new heroes, but the new villains seemed really lame. And I really did not like the Kylo Ren storyline.

Spoiler:

Seriously, why does Han and Leia's son want to be the new Darth Vader and murderize a bunch of innocent people? Because of emo angst?

Well, maybe it will work better as part of a larger narrative. Hopefully...

[Ithekro]

Kylo Ren might have found some old records from the Clone Wars.

Spoiler for Who did what now?:

Maybe he found Ahsoka's diary and read all the things Anakin Skywalker did and then read all the things Darth Vader did during his 20 plus years in service to the Empire and went, "Hey that's my grandpa. He was awesome. I wish I was like that".

[Magin]

Having seen the movie today... well, I was already spoiled ahead of time, and that turned out to be a good thing. My original rating was going to be at least a 9/10, but after reading everything it went down to a 7/10. And when I actually saw the film... my expectations were met. I won't say it was a bad film, but so much of the stuff tried to be like A New Hope, and just didn't measure up. Although to be fair, Disney is damn well milking the fact that it's part of a trilogy and not a stand-alone, which is what A New Hope originally was.

Spoiler for More in depth, with spoilers:

The two most disappointing things to me were how much of a little bitch (as other users have said) Kylo Ren was... he was no Darth Vader. And then Rey using the Force that well? Even Luke never Jedi Mind Tricked storm troopers early on- it took a Jedi Master to do that. And Luke is the direct son of one of the most powerful Force users! Depending on what fan theory you buy into, Rey could be at the very least Vader's granddaughter, and at most Luke's daughter (difference being that Luke is stronger in the Force than Leia, which may lead to Rey also being extremely strong in the Force. That much, I can buy)... and even then, she shouldn't have been able to Mind Trick without any training. As I stated before, this is definitely meant to be a set-up, but many of us were expecting it to be a stand-alone movie. And so now we have to wait until I believe 2018 for VIII

Now, as for some things I enjoyed. Han Solo remained Han Solo, and I'm pretty sure it was harrison Ford himself who basically said "I'm getting too old for this, kill off my character". The X-Wing and TIE fighter battles were good, and Poe was awesome... I seriously hope we get more Poe in the next film. Though I wonder what role Finn will now be delegated to. Maybe this trilogy's Han Solo? And surprisingly, having Luke at the very end worked out perfectly for this movie. My own vision says that VIII is training on both Sith and Jedi sides, with Rey being set against Kylo, and Luke facing Snoke for the finale in IX. Although I kinda wanted to see Luke float the lightsaber over at the end and ignite it, but I guess it'll be Rey's job to convince him to once again restore the Jedi Order.

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Also, the movie shouldn't have to hold your hand for every action that happens. You also seem dead set against the movie regardless of how good or bad it was.

There is a big difference between hand-holding and poor storytelling where you leave audience members to let their imaginations run wild trying to fill in blanks. Rather than get out in front of the story, you're letting them come up with their own explanations which may ultimately cause them to stop buying what you're selling... which you don't want as a filmmaker. You're asking your audience to suspend disbelief, and once they start thinking, "Uh... why is it like that? How would that even work? It makes no sense in the grand scheme of things" rather than paying attention to what is going on after the confusion-inducing moment, you're fighting a losing battle.

There's a big difference between a cliff-hanger (will she be saved?) or open-to-interpretation event (are they going to live happily ever after?) or misdirection (is he actually dying?)... and lazy storytelling.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The only problem I had with the story was the "space is small...you can see other planets easily from light years away" problem that happens from time to time, when in reality, you'd might never see such things happen, or if you do, it will be years later. That was artistic license I guess, like that ships make sound in space and have to bank like airplanes to turn.

Wow. I mean, I realized that scene was bad, but that part hadn't even occurred to me. I rationalized at the moment how they saw the planets exploding (because, after all, you can see distant stars...), but my rationalization was totally wrong. You're right; there's no way that the folks on Takodana would've seen the planets exploding.

The script explains away the seeing of the beams (sort of) but saying that the weapon is a hyper-light weapon (traveling faster than the speed of light, like hyperdrive-equipped ships). Weak, but... I'll accept it. I've accepted weaker arguments in my 20+ years of Star Wars fandom from the movies and non-movie media. I had much bigger problems with a great many other things in the movie, leading to my 5/10 (rounded up) rating.

[Maxulous]

Initial impressions: an intensley fun film that is bogged down by a handful of problems.

The OT was good (sometimes too good) at efficient storytelling. A New Hope was aggressively plot focused and left little breathing room for character/emotion. It still suceeded as a simple, slick-paced space adventure. The Force Awakens is an intelligently paced film but has superfluous plot elements (Ranthars? Anakins' lightsaber) and characters (Phasma and Orange Yoda).

That said, it does cover more ground than it needs to - specifically Rey's development, destroying superduper deathstar (I'd rather the resistance merely crippled it) and finding Luke (abruptly thanks to D2).

Technically the movie looked mostly great, but I can't fathom why a practical effects heavy film would showoff two lame CGI characters that take you out of the experience. And a jarring marvel-esk ranthar tenticle scene as I mentioned before.

Rey is a touch too perfect, but she's far from bland. Finn's a breath of fresh air, Poe and BB-8 a blast too. Harrison brought his A-game humor as did the stormtroopers. Kylo Ren is deceptively trite but has a lot of depth.

The last shot was awkwardly tacked on, but I anticipate we will see the characters a few years in to their adventure a la Empire Strikes Back. Happy to see Star Wars heading back to its roots. Hopefully VIII will explore more new ideas than we got in this solid reintroduction.

[Ithekro]

A year and a half wait. Half the wait we had before. And cut two-thirds of the way through by Rogue One coming out in a year.

[germanturkey]

kylo ren is amazing. such a complex and conflicted character. and i doubt he'll flip out at losing to Rey because she's a girl. he'll flip out because he's a descendent of Vader who got out-forced by someone who has no formal training.

plus they're obviously setting Rey up for bigger and better things in terms of family relations.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

kylo ren is amazing. such a complex and conflicted character. and i doubt he'll flip out at losing to Rey because she's a girl. he'll flip out because he's a descendent of Vader who got out-forced by someone who has no formal training.

plus they're obviously setting Rey up for bigger and better things in terms of family relations.

Yup, but rights activists folks will probably completely miss that point.