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Old 2018-06-17, 17:32   Link #41
BPD Renegade
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Comments about Roger possibly being Im are interesting. While I won't throw my hat in with them, it does bring up a couple instances throughout the manga where I wondered if Roger was actually alive somewhere. The most recent was Momo mentioning that he met Roger and his crew at one point, which seemed strange considering Roger should have died well before Momo's birth. The other was before Whitebeard's death, when he said that Roger was waiting for someone. I may have interpreted these scenes incorrectly, but I remembered thinking that they seemed to be implying that Roger may still be alive.

As for the chapter itself, it was great seeing Bonney again. I wasn't expecting her to appear so soon, so that was a pleasant surprise. Not so pleasant was seeing what happened to Kuma... If Bonney really is from the same kingdom as Kuma, and it wasn't just a ruse to get in, I wonder what their relationship is. Maybe we'll finally get some info on why Akainu was after her.
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Old 2018-06-17, 17:45   Link #42
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
DID we see the five elders during the Ohara incident? I remeber them having a speaking role, but looking back to the chapter it looks like the only appearance they had were in very heavy shadow which would make it unclear how much they have aged since then...
They were heavily shadowed, yes, but looking at their outlines you can still tell they look the same as they do in the current day. But if you want another example, there's also Franky's flashback, where they also looked exactly the same when Spandam met with them (which was 8 years before the Water 7 arc began, remember). Again, I think it's pretty telling that those guys still look the same after nearly a decade, when someone like, say..... Sengoku currently has a head of white hair when it was clearly black before the -year skip happened, heh.


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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
If they were trying to keep it a secret, we would have to wonder how they do it. Surely somebody would notice that the five most important people of the world didn't get older. It's not like they stay in shadows like Ym. They interact with the marines, the Celestial Dragons and probaly with the kings coming to Reverie as well. That's not something you can hide for several hundred years.
So the other possibility would be much easier: It's not a secret, but common knowledge to everyone who interacts with them. However in this case, there is no reason for the author to hide the knowledge from us, the readers. I think it would have been mentioned already. Either in one of the notes, when the peoples are introduced, or indirectly by some character mentioning it.
Basically that is the main reason, I'm not convinced by the theory, even though it sounds rather interessting.

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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Its a nice theory, but i would doubt they are immortal simply because it would be impossible to cover up seeing as they have meetings with the kings and other important individuals. They would notice if the elders were never changing. Being immortal would make more sense of Ym, since few people even know of their existence. If you never meet with anyone then no one will notice you never change except for the few that ARE trusted with knowledge of your existence. The 5 elders are supposed to act as the face of the WG's leadership, so that no one knows about Ym.
These are certainly valid questions, and one response I can give is that this mainly depends on how well-known the elders are to the general public. For instance, have their pictures ever been printed on the papers? If the answer to this is no, then I can easily see how they could have remained in power over the course of several centuries. As the supreme authority of the world, we already know that they can manipulate information as they see fit, as well as take swift and immediate action against any unsavory elements that threaten the world's balance ("erasing a light from history", as they themselves put it this chapter). Even if they regularly meet with several world leaders, it shouldn't actually change anything since those are the leaders, not civilians (and would you really expect kings to be gossips?). Plus, the elders have their own methods of gathering intelligence (CP agents, marines), so even if any of those "lower" rulers decides to blab, they can easily have something like a Buster Call on standby to erase that whole country, keeping their secrets secure (as was the case with Ohara. Remember, Robin even said her homeland doesn't appear on maps anymore). Heck, that may even be the reason why Kuma lost his own throne....


Alternatively, a much simpler way of looking at things would be that the elders, as Celestial Dragons, (and in other words, "gods"), aren't concerned with the public knowing their faces since as deities, they have the power to suppress any and all who question their rule, lol.


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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Now to some other questions, which would appear:
If they are from the WG founders, what happened to the others? It weren't just 20 persons, who founded the WG, but 20 kingdoms. So they were at least 20 royal families (19 if we leave out the Alabasta Kingdom), which likely consisted of at least a king, his queen and a crown prince. How come that only 5 of them are left alive, when they are supposed to be immortal?

Why do the Celestial Dragons accept this? The celestial dragons see themselves as gods. How can they accept, that five of them live as immortals and rule over them, without wanting the same power for themselves?

Considering the theory proves true, I think the most likely answer is that the world noble descendants accept the elders as long as they let them have free reign to do as they please. We saw how disdainful they were towards their fellow nobles who showed decent moral conduct and were willing to give up their unrestrained lifestyles (Homing, Mjosgard, and even Vivi's ancestors, whom the elders considered traitors), so as long as they're satisfied, there's no problem. Basically, think of the Gorousei as the rich parents who provide their spoiled kids (the nobles) with all the expensive toys they want so they stop whining.


Now, as far as Im/Ym goes..... Personally speaking, I'm not certain if he possesses much more power than the elders. From what we've seen, it looks like the elders go to him for advice, which would explain why they're so respectful towards him, but that doesn't guarantee that his status is superior, despite him parking his behind on that throne. I obviously don't doubt he has a special position (I also believe that he, like the elders, may be a survivor of the Void Century), but I still feel that the elders ultimately call the shots, barring special cases where the world balance is in jeopardy....
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Old 2018-06-17, 18:01   Link #43
Kanon
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Im is sitting on a throne, the elders are on their knees before him, and they address him with "sama". I don't see how Oda could have possibly made it more obvious his status is superior to theirs. He's their King.

I agree the Five Elders handle regular affairs and only go to him when the situation degenerates greatly though. However, it's clear that he could call the shots if he wanted to. In fact, he seems to make the most important decisions, so he pretty much does.
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Old 2018-06-17, 18:18   Link #44
ars89
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Is it certain that Im/Ym is a man? They could be a lady no?

If what they mentioned about Alabasta being traitors maybe they were holding Vivi's picture because she's the heir and if they take her out there will be no one left to continue the family. So then it would be easer to erase their information later.
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Old 2018-06-18, 09:06   Link #45
khoa1708
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Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
Is it certain that Im/Ym is a man? They could be a lady no?

If what they mentioned about Alabasta being traitors maybe they were holding Vivi's picture because she's the heir and if they take her out there will be no one left to continue the family. So then it would be easer to erase their information later.
with how many powerful male characters in one piece, it would be ironic to have a female as the big top baddie
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Old 2018-06-18, 10:49   Link #46
Kanon
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Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
Is it certain that Im/Ym is a man? They could be a lady no?
You're right. It's not like we know anything about Im.

This might prove to be troublesome for translators. Using "they" to refer to a single person always sounds awkward IMO, but they may not have a choice.
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Old 2018-06-18, 16:18   Link #47
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The limited mannerisms we have seen give off more of a feminine appeal to me like the scene with the butterfly.
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Old 2018-06-19, 10:11   Link #48
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I think the Five Elders are this power. Major power houses who probably only act on Im's direct order, when the stability of the world is majorly threatened. It seems to me they're ready to head into battle. Why did they not act before? Because there were no need to. Everybody was kept in check, including the Yonkou. However, now, completely unpredictable people like Luffy and Blackbeard are gaining more and more power and influence. They may not be first on the hit list, but their time will come.

As for Roger, there are still lots of mysteries surrounding him. There could have been reasons he was allowed to reach Raftel and uncover the secret behind the Void Century.

Anyway, given the Five Elders' confidence they can get rid of anybody Im wishes to see gone from this world, and the fact Im is being introduced as the ultimate secret mastermind, it would make little sense if he didn't hold significant power.
In the aftermath of the war, the gorosei commented that only the yonkou and maybe Marco could stop BB's advances in the New World. Based on what we've seen, the WG's side cannot compete with the pirates. Within the marines everything rests on the admirals' shoulders. The shichibukai are unreliable, have suffered losses, and have had their reputation tarnished. So I'm all for the gorosei being formidable fighters in their own right. Because right now, the WG is seriously lacking firepower to deal with/contain these threats. There needs to be some kind of equalizer to even out the playing field.
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Old 2018-06-22, 01:59   Link #49
cyberdemon
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Interesting thought but if they make an attempt on Vivi and she is forced to flee. Perhaps she will finally get to officially join the strawhat crew. She wanted to before but her duties stopped her. But if she is unable to do those duties due to whatever Im is planning then joining the strawhat crew would be the safest place for her.
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Old 2018-06-22, 02:40   Link #50
Ramero
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Probably the same as before though. She will temporarily join and then she will leave somewhere to continue her duty. However, considering about King Cobra's condition, i don't think Vivi can join in again.
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Old 2018-06-22, 03:19   Link #51
cyberdemon
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Probably the same as before though. She will temporarily join and then she will leave somewhere to continue her duty. However, considering about King Cobra's condition, i don't think Vivi can join in again.
Perhaps cobra will be killed and the CD take over Alabasta for the poneglyph which details pluton. They see the family as traitors so the loss of them wouldn’t bother them. Vivi is likely the key to their success. Plus as one of the original 20 families. Cobra might know details that aren’t beneficial to them. Besides if they do then Vivi likely wouldn’t get it back till the end of the series.
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Old 2018-06-22, 09:32   Link #52
Ramero
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Perhaps cobra will be killed and the CD take over Alabasta for the poneglyph which details pluton. They see the family as traitors so the loss of them wouldn’t bother them. Vivi is likely the key to their success. Plus as one of the original 20 families. Cobra might know details that aren’t beneficial to them. Besides if they do then Vivi likely wouldn’t get it back till the end of the series.
Considering now Vivi has allies such as Dressrosa and such, i don't think that she will disappear for a long time. She was a very valuable allies and of course, WG will intensify their hunt for Robin. Wano will be a bloodiest battle for four sides though. WG, Marines, Pirates, and Revolutionaries will clash there. I believe that Lucci will go to Wano and Revo will try to recruit samurais to join their cause.

I'm more concerned about Robin above the others buy there is no guarantee that those who knew the whole history will get hunted. I wonder how Shanks can hide the truth from WG about void century though.
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Old 2018-06-28, 03:24   Link #53
kayote
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I hope the immortal thing does not happen, it's a good theory but i don't think that kind of power should be a part of the OP universe. I can understand one person eating a DF that would make them immortal, so Im could be but not the gorosei as well.

I keep thinking about what Clover's theory before he was shot, about a kingdom that defeated by the Alliance (later known as WG). He gets shot as he is about to name the kingdom.
I think this Kingdom was located in Raftel and the history and answers will be shown when Strawhats arrive there.
Also The will of 'D' could be ancestors of that Kingdom. Everyone who has D in their name would turn out to be descended from that kingdom.
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