One Piece - Chapter 1044 [manga]

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Void

You people bringing up other series for comparison are totally missing the point. The problem wasn't the concept, but how it was executed. This is not the case with this reveal because:

At it's core, the devil fruit is still a Rubber fruit, and...

other than its name and its class, nothing has changed.

What is even the point of this twist then if it changes nothing according to you?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Remember when Mihawk said that Luffy's most powerful asset was his ability to make allies anywhere he went? Yeah, that's not true anymore.

Exactly. Character ruined. Why even bother with all that buildup? Mihawk should have wondered if Luffy ate a DF that made people like him

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

All he shouts is “Gum Gum”, also when does this the only people around who hear this are other pirates or Marine mooks instead of Elites, Smoker never knew what Luffy’s devil fruit was so he never reported it, it wasn’t until Marineford that the Marine upper brass including Sengoku witnessed Luffy’s Devil Fruit in full, which was probably the time that all this was reported to the Elder Stars and they put it all together before the timeskip.

So the WG knew enough about him to keep updating his bounty but never found out his DF power? Doesn't make sense. At the very least, people from Enies Lobby would have reported it

Also Kizaru is not omnipresent or clairvoyant

Never said he was. Aokiji found them, why can't Kizaru?

You ignored the rest of my post on Naruto, and Oda, It’s also not solely the DF, Luffy himself is a reincarnation of Joyboy.

It's the same point that ruins the character. Point being that he's not himself with his own agency anymore

Originally Posted by Void

But at the end of the day, Luffy still gained that fruit properties for the same reason Yamato gained hers: "I was hungry and there was nothing else"

You're missing the point entirely again. It would be equivalent to Yamato eating a DF that made her want to be Oden

[breno.m.fis]

I think you are making up in your head a bunch of BS about reincarnation, possession and destiny, believing that Oda said any such nonsense and getting frustrated with your own fanfic. While there are some prophecies about Joyboy's return, nothing claims that Luffy is a direct reincarnation of the guy. He is indeed one person, among millions who were born over 800 years, who coincidentally was born with the same disposition as Joyboy and who therefore now ended up inheriting the ultimate abilities of this fruit.

Luffy wasn't spoiled by gaining an amplified ability and he didn't lose the ability to make allies and bring joy to others, he gained these new abilities because he is who he is, and that doesn't take away any portion of the agency from him in the future. Seriously, where did you people get this idea from? Don't tell me it's that talk of the zoan having a will of their own. For all we know it's the same sort of thing as legendary swords are said to choose their wielder. The fruit also chose its user, not to say that it took possession of the user's body.

What's the problem with Luffy being someone special who was chosen by a special fruit, which makes him less worthy? It's almost like saying that I was chosen for a job with a better curriculum and that makes me less interesting for the job. I don't understand this desire to have a protagonist who is always the mutt who wins everything just by the strength and honor of a superhuman amount of hard work like many other PCs. What's the problem with having a protagonist who wins by being extra crazy and imaginative, and let's say in passing that Luffy also works hard, he doesn't just depend on hard work, what's the problem with that?

[Kirihara_R]

@breno.m.fis
Finally , thank you for posting that ..

Seriously , what happened to these so called "readers" of one piece .. Literally since the first arc and up till now Luffy didnt fail to put a smile on the people's faces whenever the strawhat went off from the island that they visited. That can also be said to how luffy fights his opponent ,he always have his goofy side and imaginative that you cant find any befitting fruit for him than this .. so i really cant understand why some "readers" said that this is out of his character

[Kaz_]

Most likely Nika Nika after a few chapters and brutal fights

Spoiler for -:

Also this upgrade was pretty possible with Gomu Gomu No Mi awakening, Nika element was probably there to carry Void Century story forward.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

You just answered your own question, there a lot of interference that prevented that, you just listed them all.

Obviously the story is rigged for the main character to succeed. We can attribute essentially anything to plot demand and convenience. The problem is that the assassination was only ordered now. The WG has known about the gomu gomu no mi's true nature for a long time. And they've known that Luffy possesses the gomu gomu no mi for a long while now.

[Theia_Loki]

I sure as heck was surprised that the Gomu Gomu no Mi was actually a Human-model DF, and a Mythical one at that.
But in hindsight, it turns out there was a lot of hints towards that revelation:
1) Shanks' reaction (and that of his crew, especially Lucky Roo) to realizing that Luffy ate the fruit he and his crew stole. Do you really think they'd have reacted that way if it really was just a simple run of the mil paramecia? Or that Who's Who would have been in as much trouble otherwise, even if an actual Gomu Gomu no Mi would have a lot of potential use for practical purposes research-wise for Vegapunk?
Amusingly, Luffy only knows what he was told about the fruit, so he can't be blamed for not knowing it's actually a Zoan type fruit when he had no reason to suspect that.

2) Those moments where Luffy is very insightful, such as wondering to himself back in his first meeting with Koby if he's just deluding himself, calling out to Wapol back on Drum that a flag isn't something you laugh about, his reasoning to Vivi for why they should go after Crocodile instead of the rebellion back in Alabasta, and those moments where he called out the main villain in most arcs (i.e. Arlong, Enel, Hody, Caesar, Doflamingo, and especially Big Mom and Kaido). What a Human-model zoan fruit grants to a human eating one of them is enlightenment, such as with Sengoku and Onimaru.

3) That each of Luffy's victories happens also leads to good things happening, such as rain falling after Crocodile's defeat or more importantly putting an end to Doflamingo's rule of Dressrosa and freeing the people "from his puppet strings" to name two of them. With his defeat of Moria back on Thriller Bark, he managed to knock him out cold and force him to spew out all the shadows just in the nick of time before anyone without a shadow disintegrated from the sun rising.

4) Luffy's abilities when going beyond what rubber should be capable of doing. His Red Hawk technique, to name one relevant example. Heck, a technique that hits with scorching force is great as a homage to Ace's Hiken move, but like the enlightenment part from the second point, is also a major hint towards the fruit's real nature. Heck, even Kaido noted in his thoughts regarding Luffy's python move in chapter 1042 that rubber shouldn't be able to do that.

5) And more importantly, the legend of Nika describes him as someone who spreads freedom and smiles wherever he goes... all traits that simultaneously describe what Luffy himself has also been doing across the story, not just in Saobaody either, where the topic of slavery came up.

6) And the obvious fact that the WG's Elders ordered the CP0 agent with the Bowler Hat to kill Luffy, rather than capturing Nico Robin like his orders were before. Heck, prior to this moment they even mentioned that a "certain fruit" hasn't awakened for ages back when Zunesha was making his way to Wano. The only fruit that hasn't awakened yet was Luffy's. And to bring back the Impel Down Arc where Crocodile reveals that the Demon Guards were awakened Zoan Users, he bluntly mentions that fast recovery rates are their specialty. And Luffy this chapter even said that he felt lighter and that he could fight for a little longer.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Obviously the story is rigged for the main character to succeed. We can attribute essentially anything to plot demand and convenience. The problem is that the assassination was only ordered now. The WG has known about the gomu gomu no mi's true nature for a long time. And they've known that Luffy possesses the gomu gomu no mi for a long while now.

Maybe its an issue of priority and which personnel they even had available to successfully carry out the task on what amounts to a rumor. We know that the Gorousei knew about Luffy right after Alabasta. Who could they order to kill him? The Cipher Pol agents that matter were occupied and still lost in a direct confrontation.

Before Onigashima, there was no opportunity to give the kill order because the SHs were always out of reach. Anytime they were in the line of sight, other things took priority over the rumor: defeating the Shichibukai; Enies Lobby Incident; being the son of Dragon; destabilizing the New World.

Onigashima may be the first time where they even had agents in the same vicinity as the Straw Hats and there even existed a scenario where the kill order could be given and successfully carried out.

If the awakening was a worst case scenario based upon a rumor, it would make sense that they'd only wait until now to give the kill order because all of the conditions lined up. Let's not forget that Zunesha's appearance at Wano could have spooked them into paying more attention to the rumor as well.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Maybe its an issue of priority and which personnel they even had available to successfully carry out the task on what amounts to a rumor.

Before Onigashima, there was no opportunity to give the kill order because the SHs were always out of reach.

As far as the WG is concerned, I don't think there's much (if anything) that tops the second coming of Joy Joy in terms of priorities. And while the awakening itself was considered a rumor / legend, the fact that the fruit was renamed means they knew it to be true. Why bother taking a chance on it not being real? The consequences of not acting on this knowledge could be disastrous for them. And when they do decide to act, it's when the fruit has the highest likelihood of awakening. Not exactly one of their smartest moments.

Enies Lobby and Marineford were prime opportunities to hunt Luffy down. Although the attempts wouldn't have been successful because the main character can't die, at least that would show that the WG knows how to perceive and assess threats.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Kirihara_R

Seriously , what happened to these so called "readers" of one piece .. Literally since the first arc and up till now Luffy didnt fail to put a smile on the people's faces whenever the strawhat went off from the island that they visited. That can also be said to how luffy fights his opponent ,he always have his goofy side and imaginative that you cant find any befitting fruit for him than this .. so i really cant understand why some "readers" said that this is out of his character

Did you "read" the part when the Gorosei said that the weidler of the Nika DF puts smiles on people's faces? You don't understand my point which seems to be the case with several people. The things you are describing as Luffy's character are now being attributed to the DF. Simple as. Just "reread" the chapter if you don't get it

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

As far as the WG is concerned, I don't think there's much (if anything) that tops the second coming of Joy Joy in terms of priorities.

Yes exactly. It would have been the WG's top priority to kill Luffy

[Kirihara_R]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

Did you "read" the part when the Gorosei said that the weidler of the Nika DF puts smiles on people's faces? You don't understand my point which seems to be the case with several people. The things you are describing as Luffy's character are now being attributed to the DF. Simple as. Just "reread" the chapter if you don't get it

Wow its been only 1 chapter since we discovered the real nature of the fruit and you already assuming that all of luffy's action and had been doing up till now and his will was because he is being controlled by the fruit ,? Is this what your trying to say..?

If thats your take in this chapter then so be it .. but As far as my concerned that not what the previous explanation by whos who and the latest chapter have been implying .

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Kirihara_R

Wow its been only 1 chapter since we discovered the real nature of the fruit and you already assuming that all of luffy's action and had been doing up till now and his will was because he is being controlled by the fruit ,? Is this what your trying to say..?

Of course you ignore the Gorosei quote

Oda won't say he's been controlled by the fruit. Maybe he is controlled at this moment, but not throughout the whole story. He'll likely explain it as a mix between Luffy's original personality, the Joyboy reincarnation and the DF. My point is why dilute Luffy's character in any way? He was a solid character that didn't need this. His DF was a solid power that didn't need this.

Ironically it's less creative to give Luffy the power of creativity. Oda changed that solidness into something ambiguous

[breno.m.fis]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

Of course you ignore the Gorosei quote

Oda won't say he's been controlled by the fruit. Maybe he is controlled at this moment, but not throughout the whole story. He'll likely explain it as a mix between Luffy's original personality, the Joyboy reincarnation and the DF. My point is why dilute Luffy's character in any way? He was a solid character that didn't need this. His DF was a solid power that didn't need this.

Ironically it's less creative to give Luffy the power of creativity. Oda changed that solidness into something ambiguous

Friend, do you realize what you are doing here? Everyone understands your point in this story to the point where you are almost ruining the aftertaste of the chapter for others. All that you're talking about is just you assuming meanings from some phrases and trying to project your own imagination on the story being presented and getting frustrated with it. Everything you're complaining about hasn't been said or presented by anyone in the story until now. Nothing that has happened so far detracts from the character's personality, it just links him with the rest of the lore. What's the problem with that?

And frankly, to categorically claim that history was ruined in this way is pretty self-centered. While I see you complaining I've seen, without exaggeration, thousands of other comments delighted with this twist, finally seeing the magnitude of how this Devil Fruit suits Luffy. That strikes me as a very successful narrative.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

As far as the WG is concerned, I don't think there's much (if anything) that tops the second coming of Joy Joy in terms of priorities. And while the awakening itself was considered a rumor / legend, the fact that the fruit was renamed means they knew it to be true. Why bother taking a chance on it not being real? The consequences of not acting on this knowledge could be disastrous for them. And when they do decide to act, it's when the fruit has the highest likelihood of awakening. Not exactly one of their smartest moments.

Enies Lobby and Marineford were prime opportunities to hunt Luffy down. Although the attempts wouldn't have been successful because the main character can't die, at least that would show that the WG knows how to perceive and assess threats.

Firstly, they renamed the fruit because it had Nika's name in it. They were trying to scrub out Nika from history.

Secondly, there were plenty of things that took priority pre-timeskip. The destabilization of the three great powers; Nico Robin and the blueprints for Pluton; and executing the son of Roger and fighting a war with the strongest pirate in the world.

Enies Lobby and Marineford were definitely prime opportunities to hunt Luffy down... and they did. The strongest CP9 agent fought one on one with Luffy while also escorting Nico Robin to the Gates of Justice. All of the admirals specifically targeted Luffy during the war. They did this because there was already a good enough reason for them to kill Luffy without bringing up a rumor.

Between Alabasta and Marineford, when did they have the opportunity to divert all of their Cipher Pol resources to hunting them down?

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Firstly, they renamed the fruit because it had Nika's name in it. They were trying to scrub out Nika from history.

Secondly, there were plenty of things that took priority pre-timeskip. The destabilization of the three great powers; Nico Robin and the blueprints for Pluton; and executing the son of Roger and fighting a war with the strongest pirate in the world.

Enies Lobby and Marineford were definitely prime opportunities to hunt Luffy down... and they did. The strongest CP9 agent fought one on one with Luffy while also escorting Nico Robin to the Gates of Justice. All of the admirals specifically targeted Luffy during the war. They did this because there was already a good enough reason for them to kill Luffy without bringing up a rumor.

Between Alabasta and Marineford, when did they have the opportunity to divert all of their Cipher Pol resources to hunting them down?

And that's not going into what pushed them towards taking that decision just now. The existence of the fruit was a myth even to them, they didn't even consider the rubber fruit could be that one.

So what's the exact reason. Who and what could have possibly lead to the WG issue the order to assassinate Luffy before it was too late just now?

The answer: Shanks.

[Kirihara_R]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

Of course you ignore the Gorosei quote

Oda won't say he's been controlled by the fruit. Maybe he is controlled at this moment, but not throughout the whole story. He'll likely explain it as a mix between Luffy's original personality, the Joyboy reincarnation and the DF. My point is why dilute Luffy's character in any way? He was a solid character that didn't need this. His DF was a solid power that didn't need this.

Ironically it's less creative to give Luffy the power of creativity. Oda changed that solidness into something ambiguous

No. I didnt ignore the gorusei discussion and any detail about this chapter . As far as my concerned your the one who's getting frustrated and went ahead assuming things which clearly hasnt happen yet, and looking at your second statement about Oda i think its better for me not to get along with it , its a waste of time Have a nice day sir

Really , i dont want to ruin such a special chapter , clearly one of the best ..

[Gerard07]

I ask again, if Shanks always thought that the Gomu-Gomu/ Nika was a not so special Akuma, why at the beginning of the series did he leave that fruit on a bar where literally anyone could take it?, maybe Oda He'll come out with something about Luffy's fruit being the Gomu-Gomu no mi and Nika's real fruit being Shanks, though there aren't many opportunities for that.
Well, my prediction would be that the side effect of Luffy's awakening is to reduce his lifespan (that way he won't use his ability like crazy).

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by breno.m.fis

Friend, do you realize what you are doing here? Everyone understands your point in this story to the point where you are almost ruining the aftertaste of the chapter for others. All that you're talking about is just you assuming meanings from some phrases and trying to project your own imagination on the story being presented and getting frustrated with it

that's the thing. you think you understand but you don't. that's typical with misunderstandings. I'll just quote the manga since you can't comprehend what you're reading: "the user is only limited by their imagination. putting smiles on faces far and wide. the embodiment of the warrior of liberation" you'll find out what this means in the future if you still don't get it

And frankly, to categorically claim that history was ruined in this way is pretty self-centered. While I see you complaining I've seen, without exaggeration, thousands of other comments delighted with this twist, finally seeing the magnitude of how this Devil Fruit suits Luffy. That strikes me as a very successful narrative.

That's fine. Like what you want. Bad writing is bad writing. Have fun with your new loony tune character

Originally Posted by Kirihara_R

No. I didnt ignore the gorusei discussion and any detail about this chapter . As far as my concerned your the one who's getting frustrated and went ahead assuming things which clearly hasnt happen yet

I was frustrated a month or 2 ago back when I predicted this stuff, not that I was the first to do it. I quoted the manga above. you can choose to read it or not. that's exactly what the translation said. and yes, you ignore all of it

I expected Oda to make the retcon fit better

Originally Posted by Gerard07

I ask again, if Shanks always thought that the Gomu-Gomu/ Nika was a not so special Akuma, why at the beginning of the series did he leave that fruit on a bar where literally anyone could take it?

because it's a horrible retcon that ruins the story? the Gomu DF was clearly just an average DF that a pirate like Shanks would have found here and there. He didn't care about it like he would have the DF with "the most ridiculous power in the world"

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

because it's a horrible retcon that ruins the story? the Gomu DF was clearly just an average DF that a pirate like Shanks would have found here and there. He didn't care about it like he would have the DF with "the most ridiculous power in the world"

I don't know about it ruining the story, but it's definitely a retcon. Fanboys are grasping at straws attempting to provide evidence there was foreshadowing and all of those are just coincidences or just stuff Oda reused (like Luffy's silhouette at the end of Skypea). Concrete foreshadowing only showed up some thirty or so chapters ago with Who's who's backstory. Okay, I guess I'll also give you Hyogoro saying Luffy looked like a God in Gear 4. That's pretty much it.

[Kirihara_R]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I was frustrated a month or 2 ago back when I predicted this stuff, not that I was the first to do it. I quoted the manga above. you can choose to read it or not. that's exactly what the translation said. and yes, you ignore all of it

I dont want to correct any translations or dont have any comment on it , but let me just say that different source different interpretation

Gorousei: "His body has the properties of rubber.

And he can fight in any way he wishes... Making people smile wherever he goes.

He is the “Warrior of Liberation”, also known as...

“Nika, the Sun God”.

Awakening will give the rubber body even more “strength” and “freedom”.

I dont know why the translator in your source omit the "hitobito" =people word in their translations ,im not saying their are wrong its just confusing .. but it doesnt matter actually , be it your source or mine Im just wondering where did you get the idea that luffy is being controlled .. ?