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Old 2006-10-18, 01:33   Link #2181
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Well you can largely thank yononaka for breathing life back into the thread
Oh noes, my evil plan has backfired! lol
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Old 2006-10-18, 01:50   Link #2182
warainagara
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If you are pointing to one of the two, Fignae, the impression I got from the source of the info was not so positive. But your comment certainly makes me want to read it.

Evangelion is a great work.
However, I have once done a long research to find out what the staff intended to convey by the esoteric story as a whole and ended up without conclusion. Not that I'm serious for every show, but Eva seemed to promise a reward at that time. I still wish someone to put forth its overall theme which I can agree to.
As one who tends to stick to staff's literal intention, finding several candidates for the overarching theme of Simoun was much easier. So I disagree to yononaka's thought that we read more than the show actually has. Hey, yononaka! Whether you gave us compliment or not, it's there and we read it. Besides, Eva teems with things to ponder over and feel. Also, the setting itself was enjoyable intellectual challenge.
Grr, I'm changing this thread into Evangelion's. Let me shut up.
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Old 2006-10-18, 02:09   Link #2183
kauldron26
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im still contemplating watching the show or not... Is this anime mainly YURI?? because i dont think i can handle 26 episodes revolving about yuri love, just like strawberry panic...
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Old 2006-10-18, 02:42   Link #2184
Zappster
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No, it's not.
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Old 2006-10-18, 02:47   Link #2185
Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauldron26 View Post
Is this anime mainly YURI??
No, not at all. The relationships between the characters are an important part of the story - the entire anime is mostly character-driven - but there's none of the "ZOMG, lesbians! Hey everyone, check out the freak-show!" thing you get in SP (this isn't just mindless SP-bashing, I watched the whole series and will admit to enjoying some facets of it). At first it may seem to be laying on the fanservice, but don't be fooled: sabisu plays a much smaller part than in most anime, and the story is strong enough that you'll soon have plenty of other things to think about.

The show isn't perfect, but in this particular regard you worry needlessly
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Old 2006-10-18, 03:59   Link #2186
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warainagara View Post
As one who tends to stick to staff's literal intention, finding several candidates for the overarching theme of Simoun was much easier. So I disagree to yononaka's thought that we read more than the show actually has. Hey, yononaka! Whether you gave us compliment or not, it's there and we read it.
Look, would you mind explaining what is the "it" you keep talking about? I don't believe I ever said "Simoun has nothing" and the like. Other people including yourself projected what I said that way. Even if I'd said it that way, it would obviously be just an opinionated hyperbole, not a statement of fact...

So, what I was saying was that whatever was there wasn't working and that the "greatness" wasn't there. (That this includes "for me" should be obvious unless you think I think I'm God. Which I guess you might, given your repeated admonishments about my selfishness. Never mind that I said it was an opinion. How very selfish of me to have one...) I really don't see how you can tell me that it's "actually" there. (Barring some "overwhelming majority" argument which would only fly if the show were in fact widely popular.) Nor can I tell you that it isn't there for sure, other than in the sense that I don't think there's anything particularly special about Simoun.

As far as you not reading into it more than what the show "actually" has: do you have the ability to see the show exactly as it comes out of the mind of the creators? It is pretty much inevitable that once you become a fan, you develop your own extensions to what the creators have given you. There's nothing wrong with that, and to deny that it happens seems very strange to me.
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Old 2006-10-18, 06:06   Link #2187
ZeusIrae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Evangelion was a character study with plot thrown in, just like Simoun.
Eva's message and Simoun's message are completely different, so I don't think it's really fair to compare them on that level.


.(
o
A character study,personnaly I never saw Simoun as a character study.The priestsess were of course a central part of the show.But the most intresting for me wasn't the character themselves but how they react to the new situation.And how the whole political system react to the new situation:war.
For me,the first ten ep were about the struggle of the priestess and the system to cope with the new situation.Neviril saw herself as a Priestess and that's the focus of the show at the beginning:A priestess can't fight a war,there's a contradiction.
It's funny to see that even at the End
Spoiler:

For me it 's not only about the characters but also the end of an era symbolized by the sunken ship.It' the end of innocence, not only for the characters but also for an entire world.
The discussion between Floe and Vyura is very symbolic.They will fight,they consider themselves as pilots and no longer as Priestess;and soon the Chor Tempest will be forgotten.
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Old 2006-10-18, 09:23   Link #2188
fignae
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The Chinese fansub group, YYK, recently released the 25th Simoun episode. With it came a translation note from their TL, glyco. They took these words 「落ちる」("ochiru") and drew another connection from it, in addition to the obvious Western connotation of the Biblical Fall we already know. It is Sakaguchi Ango's 1946 essay, "Darakuron" (『堕落論』, i.e. "On Decadence"). glyco quotes these lines from the essay:

Quote:
戦争に負けたから堕ちるのではないのだ。
人間だから堕ちるのであり、生きているから堕ちるだけだ。
だが人間は永遠に堕ちぬくことはできないだろう。
なぜなら人間の心は苦難に対して鋼鉄の如くでは有り得ない。
人間は可憐(かれん)であり脆弱(ぜいじゃく)であり、
それ故愚かなものであるが、堕ちぬくためには弱すぎる。



堕ちる道を堕ちきることによって、
自分自身を発見し、救わなければならない。
They then give a translation, in Chinese. The corresponding paragraph can be found on the web, in English, translated by Ian Smith, which I'm quoting below. This is the concluding paragraph of the essay.

Quote:
We are not going to fall because we lost the war. We are going to fall because we are human, simply because we are alive. But can we save humanity from an eternal decline? Why is it that the human heart cannot face up to extreme hardships with the strength of steel? We are delicate and frail and thus strange creatures, but we are too weak to keep from falling into decadence. In the end we must kill the chaste virgin, we must devise Bushido, and we must prop up the Emperor. But we must each kill our own virgin, we must each devise our own kind of Bushido and our own Emperor; it is essential that people descend down their own correct path and they must descend to the very end of that path. It is also crucial that Japan fall in the same way. We must save ourselves by discovering ourselves once we have fallen to the bottom of the path of decadence. Political salvation and other shortcuts are nothing but superficial folly.
Contrary to how this post looks, I don't think the reference is absolutely significant. I'm in two minds about it at the moment.

Nonetheless, it is academically very interesting. Sakaguchi wrote this after Japan's defeat in World War II. His thesis contains the idea (sorry, I haven't read it in detail) that the nation can pick itself up in the wake of defeat, even that the fall is necessary in order for the nation to discover itself again. This idea has severe resonances when applied to Simoun.

Also, the two notions of the fall as Biblical and the fall into "decadence" can arguably co-exist; there doesn't have to be a contradiction. Besides the similarities they share, the controlling motif behind them both is, after all, the behemoth that is "modernity", a combination of technology, capitalism and politics that culminates in change, and more importantly, the self-awareness of change. I could waffle on about how Simoun fits "Western" literary history, but that would take time and knowledge I don't have at my fingertips.

That said, wrapping all this in the nutshell of a child growing up and falling and learning is a great metaphor, one that leads us on many possible avenues of thought. We'll never know the work's creator or his unconscious with any intimacy, I must disclaim, but I like knowing that the Japanese collective unconscious contains such an element.

[See Ian Smith's essay and translation of Darakuron for full text.
Also see the original text by Sakaguchi Ango -- and the picture of the wing, the wing!]

For those who didn't hear the word... which is most of you that may have included me (oh god, I wrote all this about a word?!), it appears in Episode 1 and 25 and, er, I don't know where else.
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Old 2006-10-18, 12:45   Link #2189
warainagara
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Spoiler for response to yononaka:

Last edited by warainagara; 2006-10-18 at 13:02.
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Old 2006-10-18, 19:12   Link #2190
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fignae View Post
For those who didn't hear the word... which is most of you that may have included me (oh god, I wrote all this about a word?!), it appears in Episode 1 and 25 and, er, I don't know where else.
It may or may not be interesting to note that 落ちる can also mean 'to fail' (テストを落ちる; to fail a test). This may perhaps go along with
Spoiler:


Great post by the way, fignae
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Old 2006-10-19, 11:24   Link #2191
IchiKyo
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Sorry to trouble you guys but
How do you written Aaeru name?
Aaeru? Aael? Aeru? Aelu?
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Old 2006-10-19, 12:10   Link #2192
Kaoru Chujo
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The fansubs have settled on Aaeru, which is exactly what it is in Japanese. There is some publicity stuff from Japan that makes it Aer, which is also nice because it is like "air." But there are some important points in the show where people pronounce her name in three full syllables, so I think Aaeru is still the best.
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Old 2006-10-20, 10:10   Link #2193
Seska
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/Offtopic On

Onegai,

Can somebody here, help me out?

I've read today, that""Japan Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers" (JASRAC) has YouTube deleting some (nearly 30.000) Files.
Well, i already lost my Air Gear AMV cause of that. And to prevent losing
my Simoun AMVs, i need your help.

Has someone an EMail to contact them (english speaking&writing of course)
to check out, if they have something against them? (in other words.
Get the right to stay "Live!")
or can someone write in Nippon to them, and asking in my name to stay live, please?
I love my AMVs, cause i put my heart in them.

Domo arigato, in advance.

Mfg,
Seska

/Offtopic Off

Last edited by Seska; 2006-10-20 at 10:51.
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Old 2006-10-20, 10:26   Link #2194
IchiKyo
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Because we all violate Youtube Rules somedays...
They delete my First Account... [Have 14 AMV of Haruhi Inside]
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Old 2006-10-20, 16:46   Link #2195
IchiKyo
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http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X7BKDWQ0

Double post but this is the Opening of the Game...
Interesting, need to watch it...
Finally i will see a Story... Orchestred and directed by Fafner Scenarist
The Ancient Simoun and the destiny of Sibylla
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Old 2006-10-21, 10:41   Link #2196
Guppy
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Thanks for that link! The OP was beautiful - I loved the animated versions of the eyecatches. The group shot at the end was interesting, too... kind of a "flip side" shot including everyone who was left out of the previous one.
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Old 2006-10-21, 14:01   Link #2197
Kaoru Chujo
Yuuki Aoi
 
 
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Yes, Ichikyo. Merci mille fois. I was fascinated by the futuristic scenes -- from ancient times when the lost technology was new? -- and by the new sibylla waking up (from the past?). And I liked the simoun tumbling as they rose, and the rose petals like cherry-blossoms in the air. And the music. Am I so much of a fan that I will even play the game? (Shakes head.)
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YUUKI Aoi 悠木碧. b92.03.27 (age 23). 2008 Kurenai (Murasaki). 2009 Yumeiro Pâtissière (Ichigo), Kiruminzuu (Riko), Yutori-chan (Yutori-chan). 2010 Vampire Bund (Mina Tepeş), Shiki (Sunako), Samurai Girls (Juubee), Pokémon: Black and White (Iris). 2011 Madoka Magica (Madoka), Gosick (Victorique), A-Channel (Tooru), Ben-To (Hana). 2012 Symphogear (Hibiki), Kimi no Iru Machi (Rin). 2014 Pilot's Love Song (Claire/Nina), Blade & Soul (Jin Valel), Soul Eater Not! (Meme), Seven Deadly Sins (Diane). 2015 Owari no Seraph (Krul Tepes), Gangsta (Nina), Rokka no Yuusha (Fremy), One-Punch Man (Tornado), Onsen Yousei Hakone-chan (Goura), Hidan no Aria AA (Kirin). 2016 ERASED (Kayo), Boku no Hero Academia (Tsuyu), Ace Attorney (Mayoi), Tanaka-kun (Rino).
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Old 2006-10-21, 23:36   Link #2198
FatPianoBoy
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... :O
So much plot... so many loose threads winding together... so much... win.
After this video, I couldn't care less about the gameplay; it's story time

Seriously though, that white building with all the pillars, those capsules (with people inside?) and that blue-haired girl dressed kinda-sorta like a Sybilla have me totally salivating over the potential greatness contained in this. Maybe this is what the anime was supposed to have in it, but was cut due to budget/time constraints. Maybe the team was hoping for a hit and a greenlight for a second series, and when they didn't get it, they had to quickly shift the focus. Might explain the sudden shift from plot-driven to character-driven at about the 1/4 mark.
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Old 2006-10-22, 05:15   Link #2199
Conri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchiKyo View Post
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X7BKDWQ0

Double post but this is the Opening of the Game...
Cool, thank you for the link. Maybe I shouldn't have dismissed the game so easily... The art and animation look top notch, and there's the promise of an actual story much closer to the anime than the two manga have been.
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Old 2006-10-22, 10:43   Link #2200
wowo
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omg animated eye-catches! :-o

If the game gets decent reviews, I think I'll play it.
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