Death Note Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

Maybe she hasn't said anything about being the second Kira and I may be wrong with this (though her manner showed that she was more or less guilty, but I'm too bored right now to watch the episode to find specific points), but still, there's EVIDENCE. You can't free someone with this kind of evidence. And yeah, she has seen L's face, so what? She didn't know that that guy she saw at the university was L, she just saw a random guy's name. Even if she had the powers, she wouldn't kill that person.

So what? Did you say So what?

You first said she ADMITTED TO BEING KIRA, and now you say circumstantial evidence pointing her to kira is the same thing? You gotta be out of your mind. If you can't take any responsibility for your own words, then I suggest you don't say them at all.
Admitting to a crime, and circumstantial evidence pointing one to a suspect, is NEVER a same thing. Duh.
Precicely BECAUSE of circumstantial evidence that points towads her, L is confidnet she's Kira. However, she has NOT admitted to being one, and that's precicely the reason why he wants to keep her on leash.
I see no flaw in logic there.

And as for seeing his face....
Kira only needs to tell her "it's that guy you saw at the university" for her to use her powers. That's why HIDING from her does not do jack squat. L knows this, that's why he wants to keep Misa, who he's confident is the second Kira, and Light, who he suspects to be the real Kira, on leash, close to him.
L already has the information that Kira can kill from any distance. Moving them away, out of his sight, does not do him any good. He knows they can kill him anywhere, anyway. He already knows his life is in the same danger no matter what.

Again, your flaw of logic gives you absolutely no credibility over the manga artist.
And you say you're "too lazy" to go back and watch?
Well... don't blame your laziness and lack of observation, as well as your lack of understanding the logic, on the manga artist's intelligence.

When in doubt, always doubt your own observation first, make a detailed analization, then finally, give conclusion.
That is the basic of analyzing anything, my friend.

[anselfir]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

I can't understand at all. So you think that creators are some kind of Gods who can never make a mistake and no one can criticize them or oppose to them? No, they're not.

my my your grasp of sarcasm is sharp as ever

[Guido]

Honestly, this was such an intense episode that I could not help myself at getting goosebumps from watching it.

I have NEVER read the manga, therefore, I thought the plot would only be positioned on the race of wits between L and Light/Kira to find out each other identity with the entire police taskforce on their backs and the scales of power in balance. However, I never thought that the story would be moving on out of bounds and towards something even bigger and sinister.

Spoiler:

Somehow the first half reminded me to the story of Abraham. He was tested by GOD to sacrifice his own son as an act of utter faith and obedience towards GOD.

For Abraham it was a judgement passed on to him, because his judgement dwindled whether he should fullfill his sacred duty toward GOD or spare his son due to love for his own child.

I'm very certain Souichirou felt the same way Abraham did, or technically he realistically tricked me to empathize his case to that of Abraham. However, I knew it all along that it was a ruse from the start once Souichirou told Misa and Light about their executions.

Why? Because there was mention about the fake L, Lind L. Taylor, that Light/Kira murdered, and it came to my mind that the L impersonator was a cleverly ruse devised by L to get a reaction from Kira.

For Souichirou acting the role of becoming Light's executioner and followed later by his own suicide was another of L's schemes to test out if Light and Misa were indeed the 1st and 2nd Kira.

I'm glad such tense and heated pass by, but how I reacted to the gunshot heard offscreen was sweaty and restless that felt like the real thing, at least for me.

I could not stop feeling relief and a sense of satisfaction that was Light was acquitted from all charges and inminent suspicion, though he as Kira deliberately planned his imprisonment and memory wipe-out to shake off suspicions.

If I think things through, for L to grant Light full-time access and permission to get involve on the matters concerning the Kira investigation squad 24x7 time it was a side victory apart from Light's original plan to get clear from all of L's suspicion.

Spoiler for The New Players:

It looks like the possibility that L had Rem to give away Misa's DEATH NOTE to another human was not out of the question at all and either unfathomable.

That's why I believe that the story finished a critical climax and has moved on to what looks like world-wide leagues.

We have learned that Rem gave the second DEATH NOTE to a member of the Yotsuba group, which it is most likely a worldly, ring criminal organization.

And each of the eight heads are startled that Kira has given to them his backup.

If you ask me, I am certain that to whom Rem give away the DEATH NOTE is to Higuchi. He was shown very ambitious and callous that Kira has turned the tides to their favor.

While Ryuk displays amusement for the doings and wrongdoings of humans this is juxtapoed by Rem's aversion toward humans for the way they profit through the death of other humans.

The episode delivered a good deal of beautiful shots of Souichirou, Amane, and Light when they were about to break down.

Unfortunately, I disliked the funny antics for the second half of the episodes. Those comedy moments mostly involve Misa's whinning, delirious fantasies of dating Light, and her genkiness. They remember me of those seinen, romantic comedy series.

Her squeaky and squealing voice got on my nerves.

[Mgz]

Originally Posted by igalsfy

funny how people have the same reaction which is *meh*, wether it is in the anime or the manga. everybody feels down when light turns back to a normal school student. but frankly all of this is just to set up one of the greatest moments in manga's, and i expect anime's, history.

yeah, this eps was lackluster at best

I feel nothing :/

unlike the andrenaline rush, the anticipating, the cold drop of sweat on every movement that Light make, etc

also I screw myself and read the spoiler, which I regret very much

[Spastic_Hobo]

i love the contrast of this innocent Light to the evil coniving one from before. They did a really good job of translating that over from the manga.

[hitokirigirl]

Hum, I want L's screensaver !!

I just saw the raw, and I hope that L's obsession towards Raito will be explained in the next episodes.

As Raito and that afro policeman said, L is acting weird, and persecutes Raito without any proof.

I hope the new villains showing up will at least give Raito some rest of being suspected ...

[ApathyEcstasy]

the production values really took a dump in this episode but the previews show that it has returned to normal in ep 18 thankfully

[StrawHatLuffy]

Just to defend the series for those who found this episode somewhat disappointing: bear with it! It's building up for a huge climax which is one of my favourite points in the manga.

Spoiler for On Light's plans:

Yes, this was part of his plan.

[CeDeR]

im confused..light is good for now i hope he recovers his evil interesting side quickly i didnt like this whole shitty corporation plot so far...
give us back the real Light!!
also im starting to suspect L is gay and hes in love with light.they will have to shower together now.

[Shay]

I think I got a little lost somewhere. When light said the word "discard" he lost all knowledge of the death note, right? But then how did this organization get a hold of it? Did Remi* just "find" this person and give it to them on a temporary basis? Is Light just subletting the death note out? Did he know who Remi would give it to?

What is Ryuk doing? has he gone back to his old world?

Maybe I just haven’t been paying proper attention the last few eps but this all seems a little scatty to me right now...

[Shiroth]

Shay:

Spoiler:

You're not supposed to know whats going on at this point. What you mentioned doesn't need rewatching episodes.

[Quajafrie]

Originally Posted by anselfir

my my your grasp of sarcasm is sharp as ever

Erm... maybe I understood what you said and I just quoted it as an answer to Mystical Lint? That's why I put --- after it, dammit.

Originally Posted by aohige

You first said she ADMITTED TO BEING KIRA, and now you say circumstantial evidence pointing her to kira is the same thing? You gotta be out of your mind. If you can't take any responsibility for your own words, then I suggest you don't say them at all.
Admitting to a crime, and circumstantial evidence pointing one to a suspect, is NEVER a same thing. Duh.
Precicely BECAUSE of circumstantial evidence that points towads her, L is confidnet she's Kira. However, she has NOT admitted to being one, and that's precicely the reason why he wants to keep her on leash.
I see no flaw in logic there.

I admit I was wrong with her admitting that she's the second Kira, okay? (Yeah, it's my lack of observation due to lacking subtitles) But even if that's the case, there are many other flaws on L's plan.

And as for seeing his face....
Kira only needs to tell her "it's that guy you saw at the university" for her to use her powers. That's why HIDING from her does not do jack squat. L knows this, that's why he wants to keep Misa, who he's confident is the second Kira, and Light, who he suspects to be the real Kira, on leash, close to him.
L already has the information that Kira can kill from any distance. Moving them away, out of his sight, does not do him any good. He knows they can kill him anywhere, anyway. He already knows his life is in the same danger no matter what.

And then you call my logic flawed... Whatever. So, how exactly can Kira tell her that "it's that guy you saw at the university", though I really doubt if Misa would remember him anyway. Well, with the two of them released, he can easily do that, but with both in confinement, how can he tell Misa? Having them out of his sight? Are you kidding me? 24 hours a day is now called "out of his sight"? Or did I say that L should let them completely free?

[hitokirigirl]

To sum up the new situation :

Spoiler:

courtesy of ushitora-icons.livejournal.com

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

And then you call my logic flawed... Whatever. So, how exactly can Kira tell her that "it's that guy you saw at the university", though I really doubt if Misa would remember him anyway. Well, with the two of them released, he can easily do that, but with both in confinement, how can he tell Misa? Having them out of his sight? Are you kidding me? 24 hours a day is now called "out of his sight"? Or did I say that L should let them completely free?

Again, you're not thinking straight.
You're looking at it from the AUDIENCE's view.
You're basing your assumptions over information that YOU and I have, not what L has.
L does not know that Misa and Kira totally lost their memory. The only information he has, is that evidences points towards Misa as Kira2, and that she is in league with Kira1. And for some reason, the two suspects attitudes changed during their confiment.
That is the only inormation L has.

Try to think in the character's shoes, not in YOURS.

Also, you pretty much answered your OWN question.
You proved yourself, that L's decision to keep potential Kira on leash is correct.
Again, keep in mind... he does NOT know what the extent of Kira's powers are. Thus, he must assume the worst, and do anything in his power to observe them. Unfortunately, it goes against the other police officers interest, and thus, he must make adjustments to his plan.

[Mystical Lint]

As fun as condescendingly snide comments are... I'm just not feelin them.

So yes, I'm working with what the creators give me.
I didn't like the episode that awful much... I didn't like the change of atmosphere given by Misa. And I don't like the potential things that could happen in the future because of these recent events. Especially since the chain seems aimed at giving humorously awkward circumstances.

But I'm going to assume L at least has his reasons and this is the best possible way to both keep them under control as well as give them as much freedom as possible.
It seems to me L has morals enough (or is it regard for the law?) that he doesn't wish to keep them when evidence is building against him. (perhaps he is one of the few who uphold 'innocent until proven guilty')

But he also knows his conclusions are never wrong blah blah blah so he doesn't give them full freedom.

And of course I don't think he has any idea what he would do if Kira's spirit came back into Light. He doesn't really know what it's capable of. And I remember that when he first heard he may be dealing with Death Gods L seemed genuinely frozen with fear. But I also have to assume he's only doing what puts the least amount of people in danger as well as keeping an eye on Light.

So eating out of the creators hands? Maybe. Trying to enjoy this series the best I can? Hell yeah! Don't try to make it out as such a bad thing. It's still a great anime.
I may like L but I'm rooting for evil Light. And I still think this series has much in store in it's future. *shrug*

And I have to watch the new episode soon...

[Kisuke06]

Wow, Light really seems another person without the Death Note. I guess that there are things that really can change you...

[Quajafrie]

Originally Posted by aohige

Again, you're not thinking straight.
You're looking at it from the AUDIENCE's view.
You're basing your assumptions over information that YOU and I have, not what L has.
L does not know that Misa and Kira totally lost their memory. The only information he has, is that evidences points towards Misa as Kira2, and that she is in league with Kira1. And for some reason, the two suspects attitudes changed during their confiment.
That is the only inormation L has.

Try to think in the character's shoes, not in YOURS.

Huh? Did I base my assumption over the information the audience has? If L knew what we know, it would be okay to let the two of them free. But because doesn't know about their memory loss, normally he shouldn't let them free. Anyways, most probably you didn't understand what I said.

he must assume the worst

That's the exact reason why he shouldn't let them free. His plan doesn't make sense, because he made a hypothesis that Kira is a spirit and followed it, ignoring everything else. It's like he knows what's happening, and for some reason he's too damn sure that he isn't going to die by doing this.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

Huh? Did I base my assumption over the information the audience has? If L knew what we know, it would be okay to let the two of them free. But because doesn't know about their memory loss, normally he shouldn't let them free. Anyways, most probably you didn't understand what I said.


That's the exact reason why he shouldn't let them free. His plan doesn't make sense, because he made a hypothesis that Kira is a spirit and followed it, ignoring everything else. It's like he knows what's happening, and for some reason he's too damn sure that he isn't going to die by doing this.

L never wanted to let them free. Go watch the episode he released them from cells again. He was given no choice, since evidences weren't strong enough to hold them.
If L could help it, he would have kept them detained, since he is sure they are Kira.

That's why he's trying to keep eye on Light, since he couldn't "detain" them anymore, the best he could do is to keep him near him, and to watch what he does.
That's why I said "Unfortunately, it goes against the other police officers interest, and thus, he must make adjustments to his plan."

[SnEptUne]

Only recently have I started watching Death Note, so please excuse my delayed reply. Frankly, I was disappointed by the way the anime is progressing. I was hoping episode 18 is the last episode, and that Light and Misa had forgotten about the Death Note as well as everything about themself in the pass few months. Both of them were released due to lack of evidence. One rainy night, as Light became intricited by the red apple in his palm, he met Misa. Even though they don't remember each other, they felt as if they had met before. Life continued as they began to hunt for their forgotten past, a past they don't want to remember. Yet, it is a past they both shared. That's the ending I was hoping for.

Hopefully, the characters in the anime will realized that evil is born within everyone, but human isn't ugly in nature. Light and shadow, one cannot exist without another.

Anyway, now that I know my ending isn't possible, I wish both Light and L will grew up. Although I doubt L will since he seems to care more about himself being correct than saving lives. I wouldn't go into the discussion whether it is justifiable to sacrify one life to save a thousand, but both Light and L is very similar in that sense.