AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Retired A-L > Kanon

Notices

View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 152 58.24%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 60 22.99%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 7.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 18 6.90%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 3.07%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.38%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.15%
Voters: 261. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-03-16, 22:47   Link #141
Meophist
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
The Ayu at the end is the real thing. The one that just woke up.

Edit: I'm more sure of this than anything else I've said in this thread.
Meophist is offline  
Old 2007-03-16, 22:56   Link #142
Sinestra
ショ ン (^^)
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu
Send a message via AIM to Sinestra Send a message via MSN to Sinestra Send a message via Yahoo to Sinestra
Well I dont have much to say most people have already conveyed what i wanted to say about the series and ep 24. I thought it was wonderfully done i had my worries about some changes and i will admit that im little upset that the clock scene was removed, imo it was an important scene for Nayuki character, but we cant please everyone al lthe time. Even still Mai talk with Yuuichi was exactly how i pictured it. Ayu looked so cute in her overalls by the way. Over the all remake was done beautifully and the animation was just breathtaking. Im sad that its over but at least it ended well.

On another note so happy to hear about the CLANNAD movie. I didnt expect that at the end. heres a image i found today now thats a lot of cuteness in one pic.
Spoiler for Clannad, Air, Kanon:
__________________
Sinestra is offline  
Old 2007-03-16, 23:47   Link #143
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Waaaay too much dialogue for me to understand what is going on in Ep24. I will write more when the subs come out.

Preliminary Thoughts on Kanon Ep24:
---- ----
Spoiler for you know why:

Wow, that was longer than I expected. Wonder if my follow-up will be longer?

Cheers.
Having watched the subtitled version of Kanon Ep24, some of my earlier questions during my RAW-viewing has been answered. I am now much more satisfied about the whole thing, and despite some misgivings, I am generally positive about the whole experience.

Without further ado,

Random Thoughts on Kanon(2006) Ep24:
---- ----
Spoiler for tidiness, because this is going to be long...:

The following is my interpretation of what is going on with Ayu.

There are three Ayus.

1) The comatose Ayu, henceforth CAyu.
2) The loli-Ayu manifestation, henceforth LAyu.
3) The hairband-Ayu, henceforth HAyu.

CAyu talked about how the dreams are starting to fill her up, and this can be taken to be an interpretation of Ayu's near-awakening. CAyu however, cannot wake up until ALL of her dream-parts return back to her.

This was what HAyu meant by her time being up, and why she wanted Yuuichi to forget about her. This is because she is merely an illusion jointly created by Yuuichi and CAyu, and if she doesn't disappear, then there is no chance for CAyu to wake up, as Yuuichi is not acknowledging CAyu's existence( and in turn, the existence of LAyu).

All those dreams we have seen are not by one Ayu, but are different dreams by the different Ayus. Which dream to which Ayu is pretty easy to figure out at this point.

When Yuuichi finally finds the hairband, he finally realises that HAyu was not the real Ayu, and merely an illusion.

The next scene is very, very symbolic, and should not be taken literally. Trenchcoat-wearing shota-Yuuichi is representing present-day Yuuichi, and his meeting of LAyu is an acknowledgement that he finally realises how long CAyu has been waiting for him.

His gesture for LAyu to follow him is to symbolise CAyu's awakening, as LAyu is now returning to CAyu, and thus completing CAyu. For those complaining about there being no scene of Ayu's awakening, you are not paying attention. THIS IS the scene.

In summary, CAyu was unable to wakeup because a part of her( LAyu) was still waiting for Yuuichi. Once Yuuichi finally acknowledges LAyu, CAyu was finally able to awaken.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 00:00   Link #144
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 64
Quite an interesting reading of the episode ... (off to rewatch with that post in mind)...

I gave the ep a 9 on first viewing because the pacing seemed a bit lurchy (too much to do too little time) but as far as the events themselves, I was pretty happy.
__________________
Vexx is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 00:20   Link #145
kyonkun
Conscripted into SOS-dan
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Mishio deserved more than 3 seconds of screentime T.T (in fact she didn't deserve to be forgotten after Makoto's arc)
Apparently three seconds is definitely not enough for this viewer. Can you tell me where Mishio appears? I can't find her in the final episode. Thanks.

Update: Sai the Dreamer answered my question. And gyah, I double-posted below. Mods, feel free to remove Post #146.

Last edited by kyonkun; 2007-03-17 at 00:27. Reason: Question answered; double-posted
kyonkun is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 00:24   Link #146
kyonkun
Conscripted into SOS-dan
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyonkun View Post
Apparently three seconds is definitely not enough for this viewer. Can you tell me where Mishio appears? I can't find her in the final episode. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sai the Dreamer
Did anybody else see who popped up at 16:53-16:55?
Nevermind. Though I think the scene was way too quick.
kyonkun is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 00:26   Link #147
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
Arrow

Ah shoot, I posted prematurely. There's more to what I intended to write.

Due to the sidelining of Mai after Ep16, I am somewhat pacified by her expanded role in the final episode. Throughout the entire series, Mai has had played a role in all the arcs except Nayuki's. This expansion of her character is something that makes me glad, and it helps to mitigate what they chose to leave out of her own story material.

I must also give props to shota-Yuuichi's VA. She( yes, SHE) does not have many other roles, but her performance was top-notch and in particular, the scene where shota-Yuuichi beckons loli-Ayu to follow him out of the dream. Her voice performance there was very, very moving.

K06 has had its' highs and lows, but it was mostly highs, and for that, I am very grateful. I am ranking this episode a 9 due to the misgivings I mentioned earlier before.

With that score, these are all my scores for the episodes,
Quote:
10, 09, 10, 09, 10, 09, 09, 09, 09, 09, 10, 10,
07, 10, 09, 07, 08, 09, 09, 07, 10, 09, 10, 09.
This gives us an average score of 9.04. However, this will not be my final overall score for K06, as there are some points I still wish to penalise it for. Currently, my final overall score for K06 is around 8.5.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 00:41   Link #148
guuchan
Mou Nakanai~
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Moon (where Feena at <3)
Interesting analysis there, Skane.

I just rewatched the episode again, and I think I know what's wrong ("wrong" is not exactly the right word, but oh well, you get the idea). They tried to pull off a big fat happy ending for everyone, and obviously the game's version of Ayu's last wish wouldn't work, so instead they made it vague by having Shiori "guessing" that Ayu might have wished U1 to be happy. Her explanation of who's in whoever's dream was the major confusion imo.
guuchan is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 01:12   Link #149
Mirrinus
Bemused Scholar
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 33
You know, I'm just glad that we're at the last episode already, and no real fanboying wars over the girls have erupted. Hehehe...

Edit: Just out of curiosity, did Mai and Sayuri move to Europe in the game? I believe they did in the Toei version, but it was never metioned in the 2006 version. Meh...just a minor point.

Edit2: Skane: That's the best I've ever heard someone explain Ayu's awakening. Bravo. I really like this version.

Last edited by Mirrinus; 2007-03-17 at 01:38.
Mirrinus is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 01:20   Link #150
Owaranai Destiny
Nick of Time~
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guze no Sekai
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to Owaranai Destiny Send a message via MSN to Owaranai Destiny
Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
I just rewatched the episode again, and I think I know what's wrong ("wrong" is not exactly the right word, but oh well, you get the idea). They tried to pull off a big fat happy ending for everyone, and obviously the game's version of Ayu's last wish wouldn't work, so instead they made it vague by having Shiori "guessing" that Ayu might have wished U1 to be happy. Her explanation of who's in whoever's dream was the major confusion imo.
That got me befuddled for quite a bit too, since I'm a first timer. Had the Tsukimiya Ayu we seen in the past 23 episodes or so been an illusion, or was she some manifestation?

Aside from the pacing, I'm pretty happy with the episode, though those looking for a tear-fest would find it disappointing. From the time when the notion of miracles was mentioned somewhere in the Kanon forum I thought there probably won't be a tragedy. Perhaps some might feel that it seemed like an 'aftermath' episode...

Oh well....At least I get to see more Mai again, and in glasses too (What was that about Nagato Yuki? ).

Another thing that irked me was the lack of Makoto, so it wasn't entirely a big reunion in the end. Almost felt as though she was discarded, but if that's how the story goes...

*Wants the Xmas floor version of Last Regrets* A rather fitting ending for Kanon 2006, though I thought perhaps they should have made a little indication of what Akiko knew in the past few episodes about Ayu (Yeah, everything was explained about her intentions to keep things from Yuuichi, but I'm not buying that so quickly). I'm pleased with the interactions that Yuuichi had with the girls though, as well as the fact that all of them turned up to help Ayu in various ways possible to hasten her recovery. Don't know about anyone else, but the time lapse worked for me well enough. They even managed to slot in bits of humor as well to accentuate the happy ending.

Excellent ending, and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself on the ride KyoAni, Key and Kanon 2006 has taken me on, the only disappointment being that I only came close to shedding tears. CLANNAD looks promising though, and I'll be checking that out.

Thanks to all the fansubbing teams who responded to our demands. Cheers.
Owaranai Destiny is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 01:27   Link #151
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 64
This probably comes as close (from a relationship view of the story) to an all-girl finish as anything could go. At the very least, Yuuichi has a pack of life-long friends here (as short as life is anyway). I come away feeling like each character has the rest of their life to lead and they're not stuck in some lame reset. Just head and shoulders above much of its genre kin....

From a mystery viewpoint .... as well executed as I can imagine -- we'll have to let the first-timers let us know whether it was as much of a roller coaster as it seemed.
__________________
Vexx is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 01:49   Link #152
IRJustman
Founder, Sprocket Hole
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fresno or Sacramento, CA
Age: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyonkun View Post
Apparently three seconds is definitely not enough for this viewer. Can you tell me where Mishio appears? I can't find her in the final episode. Thanks.

Update: Sai the Dreamer answered my question. And gyah, I double-posted below. Mods, feel free to remove Post #146.
Spoiler for about Mishio's appearance in 24:


--Ian.
IRJustman is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 02:02   Link #153
Meophist
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Skane, I have a different interpretation.

HAyu is entirely a Yuuichi creation, and is entirely separate from CAyu. CAyu, sleeping all of the time, is always dreaming. In the dream, she's LAyu. For the entire 7 years, LAyu is waiting for Yuuichi on the bench in CAyu's dreams.

When Yuuichi went to the city, HAyu was created, because he expected to see her there. According to Yuuichi's made-up subconscious memories, Ayu never fell from the tree, and Yuuichi gave her the hairband on the last day he was there. HAyu remembers and knows things according to Yuuichi's memories, as she was created by him. That's why she disappears whenever she goes somewhere that Yuuichi is unaware of. That's also why she doesn't disappear when she's at the Minase house, but still does when she goes to school.

This changed when Yuuichi went to school with HAyu, becase Yuuichi was with HAyu. HAyu probably disappeared then because there was a conflict in Yuuichi's memory. HAyu withheld the memory from Yuuichi to prevent him from, well, losing it. She probably thought she was dead.

HAyu reappeared after Yuuichi regained his memories and reorganized his thoughts. Yuuichi managed to recreate HAyu subconsiously, but knew that her existance was incompatible with Yuuichi's newly rediscovered facts. This is why she disappeared soon afterwards.

None of this has anything to do with CAyu.

CAyu, the entire time was still dreaming. Still waiting for Yuuichi to fulfill his promise. Yuuichi's ordeal with HAyu helped him learn about CAyu, but did nothing to actually help her. At the end, Yuuichi managed to enter CAyu's dream, to meet up with LAyu at the bench to give her the promised hairband. After that, CAyu was able to wake.

It's really late now, so I'm just going to sleep now. Not sure if what I said makes sense, but I'm tired. Alright, that's it for me today.
Meophist is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 02:07   Link #154
Mirrinus
Bemused Scholar
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 33
You know, someone really ought to correct Wikipedia's page on Tsukimiya Ayu. Right now, it basically merges the game's story, Toei's story, and Kyoto Animation's story together without differentiating anything. They currently still have Toei's wish scene and Nayuki telling Yuuichi about Ayu but then jump to KyoAni's Ayu in a wheelchair conclusion. I'd do it, but I've never played the game, so I can't really say much on that.
Mirrinus is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 02:24   Link #155
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Skane, I have a different interpretation.

HAyu is entirely a Yuuichi creation, and is entirely separate from CAyu. CAyu, sleeping all of the time, is always dreaming. In the dream, she's LAyu. For the entire 7 years, LAyu is waiting for Yuuichi on the bench in CAyu's dreams.

When Yuuichi went to the city, HAyu was created, because he expected to see her there. According to Yuuichi's made-up subconscious memories, Ayu never fell from the tree, and Yuuichi gave her the hairband on the last day he was there. HAyu remembers and knows things according to Yuuichi's memories, as she was created by him. That's why she disappears whenever she goes somewhere that Yuuichi is unaware of. That's also why she doesn't disappear when she's at the Minase house, but still does when she goes to school.

This changed when Yuuichi went to school with HAyu, becase Yuuichi was with HAyu. HAyu probably disappeared then because there was a conflict in Yuuichi's memory. HAyu withheld the memory from Yuuichi to prevent him from, well, losing it. She probably thought she was dead.

HAyu reappeared after Yuuichi regained his memories and reorganized his thoughts. Yuuichi managed to recreate HAyu subconsiously, but knew that her existance was incompatible with Yuuichi's newly rediscovered facts. This is why she disappeared soon afterwards.

None of this has anything to do with CAyu.

CAyu, the entire time was still dreaming. Still waiting for Yuuichi to fulfill his promise. Yuuichi's ordeal with HAyu helped him learn about CAyu, but did nothing to actually help her. At the end, Yuuichi managed to enter CAyu's dream, to meet up with LAyu at the bench to give her the promised hairband. After that, CAyu was able to wake.

It's really late now, so I'm just going to sleep now. Not sure if what I said makes sense, but I'm tired. Alright, that's it for me today.
One issue I have with this is that it implies that Yuuichi has supernatural powers, which has never been hinted at before. It also doesn't tie in with how Yuuichi is within CAyu's dream, metaphorically speaking.

Hence why I stated that HAyu is a joint creation of CAyu and Yuuichi. HAyu gets her traits from CAyu, and also represents Yuuichi's illusion. To make things simpler, consider HAyu as having a separate mind from CAyu( HAyu being only a fragment of CAyu).

It is also heavily implied that Ayu was rewarded with the ability to make one miracle come true, due to her faithful waiting for Yuuichi's return. Now, if what you say is true, and HAyu is solely the creation of Yuuichi, then this implication goes out of the window, because HAyu is the one who made the last wish, not CAyu. So HAyu HAS to be a real part of CAyu if the wish is to come true. After all, it is LAyu who was waiting for seven years, NOT HAyu.

HAyu's time was running out because Yuuichi was getting closer to the truth behind her existence, that of her only being an illusion. Her existence was also hindering CAyu's recovery, so she HAD to disappear( or rather, return back as CAyu's dream) in order for CAyu to awaken.

Additionally, as I have already said before, the final scene between shota-Yuuichi and LAyu is largely symbolic. It is more than likely that Yuuichi was just talking to CAyu in hospital about the hairband and how he has returned back to her and how he wants her to awaken( ergo, a more subtle approach than Toei's version). Recall that it was explicitly stated in this episode that CAyu is well aware of what is going on around her, even if she just thinks that they are dreams.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 03:55   Link #156
Riker
Peek a boo
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Random Thoughts on Kanon(2006) Ep24:
---- ----
Spoiler for tidiness, because this is going to be long...:
Just a minor nitpick. Don't kill me, Skane-sama!
Spoiler:
Riker is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 04:09   Link #157
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riker View Post
Just a minor nitpick. Don't kill me, Skane-sama!
Spoiler:
Ja.

I was corrected on this earlier by the esteemed, Jeff Lawson. I had thought it was weird that they would be retained if their grades were so good. I guess this means Yuuichi has to solely depend on Shiori for lunch, while having late-night suppers with Mai and Sayuri in school. After all, those two girls have about a year to burn before the next entrance exam.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 04:12   Link #158
guuchan
Mou Nakanai~
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Moon (where Feena at <3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riker View Post
Spoiler:
I believe he got the idea from one of the subs, since it said "...we'll both have to stay back a year" (that would be ryuunen ). Not going into details here since last time I already got someone irritated.
guuchan is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 04:43   Link #159
Zappster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Spoiler for tidiness, because this is going to be long...:
Spoiler:


And someone else mentioned the people looking after the coma patient as being a first but it really reminded me of the similar scenes Lamune.
Zappster is offline  
Old 2007-03-17, 04:54   Link #160
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappster View Post
Spoiler:


And someone else mentioned the people looking after the coma patient as being a first but it really reminded me of the similar scenes Lamune.
I don't think a spoiler is needed for that.....

Anyway, it would have made more of an impact had Akiko actually been a bad cook......but nah, since she's a very good one instead (apart from THE JAM-MU), I don't see that link.
Ascaloth is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.