2007-06-02, 03:18 | Link #181 | ||||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Quote:
How's that sounds? Quote:
Quote:
And in my opinion, Barrier Jackets (The hat included ) are mostly magic-base, seeing as how they can come out of nowhere.
__________________
|
||||
2007-06-02, 03:24 | Link #182 |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
|
Keroko
The idea wasn't that it damages their soul, it was that it damages or disturbs their magic linker-core thingy. But you might be right, it might be that magic damage can't penetrate the body, based on how an AMF doesn't effect the mages, other then disabling them. But then the question still remains, why are they hurting when hit by something like Nanoha's beam attacks which presumably won't do them any damage. Couldn't they just seal (or hold back) all their magical powers, wait until the beam finishes (it's not like it's going to do them any harm) then just unseal their powers and go beat up, now drained and weak, Nanoha.
__________________
|
2007-06-02, 03:27 | Link #183 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
What about Signum and Fate dueling in S2? There were a couple of times where near-misses produced a "magical field" effect. Neither caster had anything like the time for a defensive spell, so it seems likely that the effect was caused by the barrier jacket turning the blow.
The first time Fate scored a scratch on Signum, it was definitely in an area where she was covered by her barrier jacket, and we didn't see a big rent in it sufficient to account for the tear, either, so obviously there's -something- in Fate's attacks beyond mere physical force, and that the barrier jacket is not an absolute defense - you can get hit under it without having it torn off first. (Or maybe it just self-repairs cuts?) I'm not convinced that there's an absolute explanation, in the sense that they don't all work consistently. Certainly Fate's barrier jacket was torn pretty easily by Precia, even though it's unlikely that each of those attacks was stronger than the strongest Nanoha was throwing at Fate. (Of course, if it's the barrier jacket performing magical defense, naturally Precia's going to turn Fate's off.) Nanoha certainly got pounded by Vita, and her barrier jacket suffered extreme (if controlled) damage, but on the other hand we know Vita wasn't actually trying to -kill- Nanoha. We also know that Nanoha's barrier jacket was in pretty good shape, when she got nailed after S2, for someone who needed extensive physical therapy to walk again. So either the animators weren't being consistent, or it's possible to gravely wound a magician without tearing up the barrier jacket too much. It's also possible that the barrier jacket is more of an active defense than it looks, and that it takes some attention on behalf of the wearer for it to perform its "buff" functions. Certainly both Nanoha and Fate take some heavy fire on their respective jackets from time to time, without too much wear and tear to the bodies, but they're generally aware of the incoming attack. It's not too much to imagine that a sucker punch could get through, and it lets us resolve the torn-up Nanoha with the more-or-less intact barrier jacket - the surprise attack plus her stress buildup prevented her, not from putting up a defensive SPELL, but from putting the energy in defense so that she could suffer wardrobe damage instead of massive physical trauma. (Then again, do we actually know that she had purely physical trauma? Could have just been a magical effect - if her nervous system's already kind of wavy due to throwing too many heavy magical punches, then the surge it took to keep her alive might have had some sort of backlash effect. Certainly Nanoha's not scarred up consistent with an injury of that magnitude! Though we have no way of knowing how much of that is due to the plastic surgeons of the TSA, of course. It would also account for why an attack that appeared to be -frontal- and concentrated on Nanoha's torso would have caused her problems walking in rehabilitation - if we're talking actual spinal damage, it would have ripped through just about everything and killed her just to get there, but a magical overload could have affected her normal nervous function without leaving big holes in important organs.) |
2007-06-02, 03:27 | Link #184 | |
Human
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 38
|
Quote:
@Avatar_notADV: Everything you mention could be either important pieces of information about the ways magic works in Nanohaverse or banal plotholes and producers' failures oh irony. |
|
2007-06-02, 03:30 | Link #185 | ||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
KHA?!?!
Where the hell are you?! Why am I fending them off on my own?!?! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote:
I use it to describe something on the inside of a living being, but not physical. Quote:
Recall how she trashed Precia's tin cans back in season 1. And no, I don't think they can just make their magic vanish all of a sudden without external help. It's like in any RPG game, you can't just have your mana gone for no reason. And in this case, a mage without mana is someone who practically run 100 miles and is now exhausted. EDIT: If you're thinking of something from Negima...
__________________
|
||
2007-06-02, 03:44 | Link #188 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
|
I like rejuvination potions.
Or just tapping on the other person's supply. Quote:
__________________
|
|
2007-06-02, 03:49 | Link #190 | ||||||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Sorry, I was still refering to Teana's example (which is basically where this whole mess started. ) Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, Negima does seem to reverse engineer the Nanoha effect, doesn't it? The Scythe is purely magical. I suppose I should explain my biggest gripe with this theory. This theory practically screams 'there is no risk of injury in Nanoha' going by this theory, it destroys all the tension in the first two seasons, because hey, they're only attacking the souls. No risk of killing them or anything. It's just... incredibly lame, as Hero in Disguise put it. Juck, no thanks. If I wanted that I'd watch a normal magical girl show where people toss around pink hearts. Give me fatal injuries any day. |
||||||
2007-06-02, 03:55 | Link #191 | |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
It's definitely the case that nobody sat down and thought of the rank structure of the TSA relative to where they stuck the characters in it. Lt. Col. at 19 is not merely preposterous, it's just not DONE. Ever. At this rate, it's virtually impossible that Hayate will not become, at some point, the senior serving officer in the TSA, barring death or super-early retirement (or going rogue, heh). It's also not done to have a captain and a lieutenant commanding two privates in a squad - either Tea and Subaru have a biiig promotion coming up, or the writers arbitrarily set Nanoha and Fate's ranks without really worrying about where everybody else would end up. (And Rein as their senior NCO? Oh, lord, oh, lord...) We have to cut Nanoha the show some slack, because it's obvious that it's way way way past anything the original concept might have contained - it's some writer's joke gotten far out of hand here, and so we can expect to find holes in how things were treated. I personally find it fun to spin this kind of theory, even though I'm pretty certain that it's not actually anywhere in the mind of the writers, even to the extent that any of them are even worried about things like internal consistency and backstory and world creation. (On a professional basis, I've been disappointed this way before - come up with competing theories that would have an effect on the translation, asked the Japanese which one was closer to what they had in mind, and gotten a response of "whoa, man, we just did all this 'cause it looked cool".) Come to think of it, I've been doing this for a good chunk of my life... I remember haunting the Star Trek technical echo in the days before the internet. ;p Finally, it's safe to assume that there's no Nanoha equivalent of Ether potions, more or less because they'd be very useful to weaker mages (like the ones in wide use in the TSA), yet we haven't seen any direct evidence of them. We know that the TSA will adapt to use useful technologies if they offer a significant advantage, because of their widespread adoption of the cartridge system. If they can issue clips of the things to grunts like Teana and Subaru for training use, they could pass around the magic Gatorade to everybody too... |
|
2007-06-02, 03:57 | Link #192 | ||||||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
It's a means to an end.
Recall what I've said about plasma weapons against the Elites' shields? Magic damage gets rid of magical properties so that the physical portion could be expose to fire. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why the heck would they be called magic spells if they're made by anything but magic ? Quote:
They can CHOOSE whether anot to use which ever TYPE of damage. And MOST of the time, it's USUALLY a mixed of BOTH. That means, IF they want to use PHYSICAL damage, they CAN do so and it would result in a bloody mess.
__________________
|
||||||
2007-06-02, 04:14 | Link #194 |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
BECAUSE, the AMF disrupts the spell altogether. Not the type of damage, but the whole damn thing.
It doesn't matter what type of spell it is, if it's caught in it's field, it would begin to fall apart (Though at different rate...). Only certain special spells are designed with properties that can overcome this effect.
__________________
|
2007-06-02, 04:24 | Link #195 |
Human
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently - Germany
Age: 38
|
Don't remind me of vampire mages, I'm trying to give up on my Prophet/Necromancer
Back on topic: talking about AMF again - I really, REALLY was expecting more out of it that they've shown so far. The heroes have way too little problems dealing with it that could be expected after all the fuss in manga and first episodes. |
2007-06-02, 04:27 | Link #196 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Quote:
If I recall, this 'physical damage/soul damage' thing started after Teana survived two direct hits from Nanoha, seemingly without even single scrath on her body. This sparked discussion because there was absolutely no damage to be seen, this is also when people dragged up the other incidents where this happened and decided to explain it by going with the soul/spirit/linker whatever you want to call it damage. The only reason this started was to explain why people could survive direct hits without a scratch. Everyone still with me so far? Good, let's continue. Now, let me ask you, how much evidence do we have that this so called 'non-physical damage' exists? None. 'But Keroko, look at Fate! Look at Teana! They survived direct hits from powerfull beam blasts without a scratch! It can't be physical damage!' Why not? During A's Nanoha and Fate get tossed through buildings regularely, and get out without a scratch. Are you saying that getting tossed through a building is 'non-physical damage' as well? No, obviously that is physical damage, and yet both Nanoha and Fate get up, clutch a random body part in pain and get back to fighting, despite the fact that there is not a single surface wound. So we've established that beams deliver physical damage, purely because there is no evidence stating otherwise. So how do we explain that people keep getting hit and comming out without a scratch? Well, instead of looking at the ofensive and start theorycrafting, let's look at it's direct oposite: Defense. There are many types of defense, and most are outwardly defending the blow before it hits the body. Shields, fields, barriers, we've been through them, and nobody used them during the incidents mentioned. But they still have one more layer of defense, one that is a lot less dramatic, yet we can't imagine our doom-girls without them: Barrier jackets. Is it not possible for a barrier jacket to nullify, or at least extremely reduce, the impact of a beam of destruction? We know they are defensive material, it has been mentioned multiple times. So why do we ignore them as if they don't exist? Why can't it be possible that it is not the beam, but the defense in question that makes sure people don't get a single scratch? Think about it. It makes more sense, and has a lot less unproven theories in it. Last edited by Keroko; 2007-06-02 at 04:44. |
|
2007-06-02, 04:28 | Link #197 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
The drones are definately of no match to Nanoha/Fate/Signum/Vita.
__________________
|
|
2007-06-02, 04:28 | Link #198 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
|
Quote:
Seems like the output of the ones shown so far are the best the current drones can do. I think the strength of output and size are the important points in the effectiveness of AMF's. @Chaos: This looks like fun. Mind if I join in to even out the numbers?
__________________
|
|
|
|