|
View Poll Results: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 13 | 22.03% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 23.73% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 37.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 15.25% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.69% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2012-12-06, 12:01 | Link #181 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-12-06, 12:14 | Link #182 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
|
Quote:
With express delivery and digital data tranfer, I don't it will be a problem for Mashiro to get a manga published in Japan even if she's in London.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 12:18 | Link #183 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
Quote:
She reminded me of a mentally handicapped person that does not have the faculty to understand they only know enough to do what there parents ask them to do to the best of there knowledge to make there parents happy. Shiina with her level of understanding in the beginning appears to have been held down in that aspect and made to stay reliant when she had the potential not to be that dependent. |
|
2012-12-06, 12:27 | Link #185 | |
Me at work
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 12:33 | Link #186 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Do I think that Shiina has a responsibility to be a painter? That she has to do that? No. But do I think that she has a responsibility to carefully consider the impact that her talents can have for both herself and the world at large? Yes, I do. That ought to "enter into the equation". It should be a factor in her decision. Does it need to be the decisive factor? No, but it should be a factor at least. It is the absolute heights of selfishness and self-centered thinking for a person gifted with great talent to not even take some time to consider what their talents could mean for the world. Furthermore, a person who doesn't take the time to consider this may well end up hurting himself/herself in the long run, for reasons that wontaek has made clear before on this thread. Shiina owes it not only to her fans, and not only to the art world, but also to herself, to really think about what she can do with her talents, and what is the best use of them. That should at least "enter into the equation" for what she chooses to do with them.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 12:33 | Link #187 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
|
Quote:
About her personality before and after coming to Sakurasou, I don't see that much of a difference myself, she sill prefers and do things her way without and iota concoern for people who might judge her (well, she doesn't have to), Even the things she did for Sorata, that was just what she decided to do like it has always been. She's keeping everything to herself and just go with it, and unlike Aoyama, who is extremely independant and fail, Mashiro on other hand is still extremely dependent and so lucky to have the Sakurasou folks. If they showed an arguement between her amd Rita or the professors back in London about her decision in manga and they rejected it, then sure I can understand your view. But given it's Mashiro, I would assume that she just decided that to herself and left without even talk to anybody.
__________________
Last edited by Zavie; 2012-12-06 at 17:54. |
|
2012-12-06, 13:15 | Link #188 |
Porcupine
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norway
Age: 65
|
The thing is, Sorata may have been just thinking out loud at the end there, but if Shiina heard it, she must have felt stabbed in the back.
When Rita showed up, Shiina welcomed her warmly, but when Rita said she had come to get her back to London, Shiina shoved her out the door and closed it. They had lived together for years, Shiina knows her and this was how she reacted. There is no question of what she wants, but Sorata spends his time with Rita and does nothing to stand up for the girl that depends on him. And now he sides with the opposition completely. How can their relationship take a blow like that? (But just the fact that we have this level of discussion shows that this anime has done at least something right.) |
2012-12-06, 13:49 | Link #189 | |
ダメ人 - 人間失格
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 38
|
Quote:
As for an earlier comment on how Rita is manupulative in getting back in the dorm and showing Sorata Mashiro's painting: Where was the manipulation? Sorata decided to pursue her on his own willl after a bit pondering. That Rita could predict his behaviour is, if at all, more a case about Sorata being easy to read. Nothing bad itself IMHO. Yet his decision was also the reason for Mashiro's first "Sorata no baka" because he indirectly ignored her decision . Next, the art museum: If Rita were so manipulating she'd be able to influence Sorata without showing him the painting. In doing so, Sorata was actually able to form a complete opinion/picture by himself before stating his opinion of what Mashiro should do. Before he only knew that Mashiro was awesome based on the internet website with the newspaper article which Jin showed him. Sorata's comment in agreement was still understandable. He saw Mashiro's manga before and now her picture aka a real way of comparison. The latter made him completely immersed in the painting. Being confronted directly with the "real deal" does make his first reaction of agreeing with Rita nothing uncommon. That's not counting the possible incoming drama, should Mashiro have overheard him If worst comes to worst Sorata has always his friends who can talk some sense into him (well more likely Jin and Nanami as the reasonable persons of the cast).
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 14:34 | Link #190 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
|
Personally, I don't think Rita is being manipulative or wrong in any way but neither do I think someone should have to be obliged to consider the rest of the world regarding whether she wants to make use of her talents. The way I see it, if you're having to pressure someone to consider what the rest of the world wants then you've already lost. Great talent should never be pressured or forced out of someone because then the product will just be artificial. But it really depends on what you're sacrificing and what you're gaining so it's very situational. The problem with Shiina's case is that we don't know what she's thinking so we can't tell if she is actually factoring her fans or the rest of the world, or if she ever did anyway. My assumption is that the reason she doesn't want to go back to London to reach her full potential is because she values her friends more. I can't see anything wrong with that.
__________________
|
2012-12-06, 14:56 | Link #191 | ||||
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
|
Quote:
"The freedom is at the moment lost when people like you force others to drop their dreams and their lifes and make them do what you want them to do." The Moment you say people should not be allowed, you are implying that people have no right to decide for themself and other people have the right to make decisuion for them. Quote:
Quote:
Good that you understood. So you agree that she is a human with fundamental rights like freedom to chose to do with her life what she wants and that your statement "she should not be allowed" was in conflight with those rights. Quote:
|
||||
2012-12-06, 15:01 | Link #192 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
Interesting discussion. Props to the show and to the posters.
I come down on the side of staying in Japan. It doesn't have to be permanent, but it can be as long as Mashiro likes. She is gaining friends and affection and becoming a more independent person. Let her go back to painting later, after she has gotten manga-making out of her system. It hasn't been more than a few weeks or months. Let her have at least a year or two of this richer life. Does she have some responsibility or other? Maybe in the long run she should try to develop her best talent, but at age 16 she should work on what she wants, not box herself into what others think is best. There's no other way for her to become a full-scale person. Is Rita "manipulating"? Yes. She is using any stratagem she can to convince Mashiro to go (working on Sorata first, in this case), and she feels she has the right to. To her understanding, Mashiro is a simpleton who needs guidance. That is exactly what she was when she arrived at Sakurasou. I think she is a bit beyond that now. I was never happier than when Mashiro shut the door. I believe Mashiro will eventually go back to painting. But it might be four years from now. Let her grow and develop more as a human, so she will have a deeper basis for her painting. Don't force her back into being a pampered monkey existing for the enjoyment and profit of art collectors.
__________________
|
2012-12-06, 15:09 | Link #193 | |
Me at work
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 15:17 | Link #194 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country." - John F. Kennedy That's probably his most famous quote. It's not hard to extend it to... "Ask not what your world can do for you - ask what you can do for your world." Isn't that a good attitude to encourage yourself and other people to have? Especially people with exceptional abilities, talents, and/or power for obvious pragmatic reasons? Yeah, everybody else is irrelevant. The only person Shiina should care at all about is herself. Gotcha.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 15:26 | Link #195 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
|
Quote:
If he said anything otherwise after the whole minute of being jaw dropped, I would mark that as just being hypocrite. Quote:
__________________
|
||
2012-12-06, 15:26 | Link #196 | ||
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Now the question is, are you willing to accept that? That Mashiro doesn't share your values, and that forcing them upon her won't lead to a better result for her, in the things she cares about? Or are you saying that her way of thinking can't be correct and that she should go back to the drawing board until her answers match those you want her to arrive to? Of course Mashiro should stay true to her decisions, based on her values, not on those of others. It's an absolute no brainer question from where I see it. Quote:
And who is to say that she hasn't considered it, but simply arrived to the answer that her own needs take precedence? Or maybe she didn't, because perhaps it didn't matter to her in the first place - she could have been drawing for herself all along. She doesn't owe that consideration to anyone but herself. And there isn't any right or wrong answer here, either is a valid one. Of course one might not be one that Mashiro's fans would prefer, but they will just have to accept that. They have no right to demand more. That's not their decision to make, nor their place to pressure her in to making a favorable one for them. And the impression I get there is that some aren't willing to accept the answer that Mashiro wants to stay away from painting for now. That she somehow hasn't considered enough and should go back to considering some more. Until she reaches a decision that satisfies them, obviously. So yeah, I think we can only agree to disagree here. I can only see the suggestion that Mashiro's life should be influenced by her fans to any degree as the ultimate expression of selfishness and self-entitlement, because there really isn't any higher to go on that scale than to demand of someone to structure their life for the benefit of others, even if said person doesn't want that. My sensibilities simply don't agree with that on a fundamental level. If she wants to do it, then fine. If not, then that's her choice to make without feeling persecuted by "fans".
__________________
|
||
2012-12-06, 15:35 | Link #197 | |
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Your position is essentially that Shiina should only care about her own wants, period (i.e. she should only care about others to the degree that she wants to care about them, so that becomes just an extension of her own wants). That's obviously a very selfish and self-centered attitude for any person to take, in my opinion. It's decidedly cold and uncaring, completely lacking in true empathy. My position is that Shiina's own wants are important, but that a balanced life includes considering the good you can do for others, and at least factoring that into your decisions. That's not the polar opposite to your position. The polar opposite to your position would be arguing that Shiina should only care about others, and not care about herself at all. And I'm not arguing that. So to be frank, my view is that your position is very extremist, while mine isn't. They're not polar opposites.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 15:36 | Link #198 | |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
|
Quote:
Secondly, it really is not her business, with regards to Mashiro's. Mashiro does what she does; and that is the end of it. Thirdly, if Rita happens to be Mashiro's former boss or agent, then Mashiro's talents becomes her business. However, I am doubtful of this scenario.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-06, 15:37 | Link #199 | |
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
|
Quote:
"For people who are thinking that Mashiro should be allow to do whatever she wants; Let me give you have simple analogy to consider. Say for example you created one of the greatest survival horror video game series of all time, and your loyal fans have been following you for years and years. Then all of a sudden you decide to change that series into an action-oriented game without considering what anybody thinks- Are you telling me that your long time fans have no reason to get angry and demand that you go back to your ‘roots’ ? " Where he tried tojust" Post 41 wher I asked him if he really belives that she should not be allowed. "You really believe that people should not be allowed to do what they want?" Since then he avoided to answere my question and was always talking around the bush. And with every post he made he gave me the impression that he really believes it. And I asked him a couple of times but he still avoided to answer that question till now and he finally admitted that it's up to her how she wants to live her life. End of this topic. At least for me. Nonsense. What she should do and what not is up to her and not for me, for you or for anyone else to decide. That it's her own life and that only she herself has the right to decide to do what she wants with it, is the absolut most important thing. In comparsion to that, other things like expections from other people are completely irrelevant |
|
2012-12-06, 15:46 | Link #200 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Oh my freaking god thats what you were whining about all this time?! It's a one off statement I used to get people to think about the other side of this argument! In which case the point is that actions have consequences whether you consider them fair or not! You can't just do whatever you want without thinking that there's some kind of backlash. Had you not been so caught up in your blind righteousness you might be able to objectively see that instead if taking it as some declaration against freedom crap.
__________________
|
|
|
|