Attack on Titan - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Destined_Fate]

Mikasa wasn't going to get him to leave his mother and if she did than he may very well never forgive her. If the mother had told Mikasa to take Eren and run than I'm sure that she may have. Instead she asked Eren to do that but Eren decided that he wouldn't so she stayed by his side.

Mikasa does want to protect Eren but she never tries to get in his way when he really has something that he wants to do. Such as when Eren seriously said that he was joining the military, she didn't stop him and instead joined him. When Eren was having issues training she didn't stop him from continuing to try when he made it a point that he wanted to. Instead she was willing to go with Eren whether he succeeded or failed.

Than when he decided to actually go Recon in the end she immediately decided to tag along with him instead of trying to convince him not to as his mind was already decided.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Eren almost gets them killed too since Mikasa only stayed for the hopeless cause of saving his mother because she would not leave Eren.

It seems that you let your "dislike" for Eren cloud your judgement. Like Randrak said, Mikasa wanted to stay on her own at that time because she (the mother) is dear to Mikasa too.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Maybe he will always see her as that but it's just as, or more, likely he will change his view on her when everything is over.

I understand why he said it(As he's just a kid) but it's still hurtful that he called her that as she only said it because she wanted to protect him. At that point he literally was just a kid and he had no idea what he was really trying to sign up for.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's plenty aware here, he saw the soldiers coming back from a failed mission and heard what the captain said back ep1. He's not blind to the dangers.

Hell, he can't even stand up in a fight against Mikasa so there's no way he can fight a Titan.

Being able to fight human doesn't correlate with able to battle a Titan, it's not they're going to be fist-fighting here.

Besides while this was true of the past, I don't it holds that so well after their military training. He's only 4 ranks bellow her, so I'm sure he can hold his own against her even if he would eventually lose to her.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Mikasa wasn't going to get him to leave his mother and if she did than he may very well never forgive her. If the mother had told Mikasa to take Eren and run than I'm sure that she may have. Instead she asked Eren to do that but Eren decided that he wouldn't so she stayed by his side.

No, no, no...Carla (the mother) told MIKASA to take Eren and leave, to which Mikasa simply replied with saying "No" over and over while trying to lift the debris.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Mikasa does want to protect Eren but she never tries to get in his way when he really has something that he wants to do. Such as when Eren seriously said that he was joining the military, she didn't stop him and instead joined him. When Eren was having issues training she didn't stop him from continuing to try when he made it a point that he wanted to. Instead she was willing to go with Eren whether he succeeded or failed.

Than when he decided to actually go Recon in the end she immediately decided to tag along with him instead of trying to convince him not to as his mind was already decided.

And this is in no way Eren putting Mikasa's life in danger. He wants to join the Scouting Legion to fulfil his goals and Mikasa wants to join because Eren is joining...but it's out of her own free will, Eren is in no way forcing her to do it (Hell, he even wanted her to not join the Military Police so she could be safe).

[Destined_Fate]

I remember that the sub I saw(Crunchyroll) said that she told Eren to take Mikasa and to get out of there, Eren told her he wouldn't.

When did I say that joining was putting her in danger? It was Eren's decision to try and save his mother that nearly got Mikasa killed as she was not going to leave him there. The military joining thing was his decision and Mikasa didn't stop him because he wanted to do it and understood the dangers fully by than as well as how determined he was. Just like how Mikasa didn't try and get Eren to safety because he desperately wanted to save his mother.

Mikasa cares for Eren and wants to protect him but when he really wants to do something she always follows him.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

I remember that the sub I saw(Crunchyroll) said that she told Eren to take Mikasa and to get out of there, Eren told her he wouldn't.

Carla did indeed tell Eren to take Mikasa and run first BUT when he refused she turned to Mikasa. Mikasa was crying her eyes out while desperately trying to get Carla free...

Mikasa didn't stay because of Eren, she stayed because Carla was her family and she didn't want to lose more of her family again.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

When did I say that joining was putting her in danger? It was Eren's decision to try and save his mother that nearly got Mikasa killed as she was not going to leave him there. The military joining thing was his decision and Mikasa didn't stop him because he wanted to do it and understood the dangers fully by than as well as how determined he was. Just like how Mikasa didn't try and get Eren to safety because he desperately wanted to save his mother.

Mikasa cares for Eren and wants to protect him but when he really wants to do something she always follows him.

Sorry I thought you were using it as another reason why he put her in danger.
But what you just said is an undisputed given, I fail to see what you are trying to argue with this statement. Everyone pretty much agrees that Mikasa simply followed Eren to the military and that she does everything she does to protect him.

[Destined_Fate]

Despite that she never considered Carla as her own mother and she moved on past her death much faster than Eren. Though Carla did turn to Mikasa she didn't tell her to take Eren and run, Mikasa was following Eren who honestly thought they could save her. Mikasa wasn't going to stop because she believes in Eren and even if she didn't see Carla a mother she wasn't going to abandon her, or make Eren hate her by forcing him to leave his mother to die, unless she didn't believe she could be saved which Eren made he believe that Carla could if they tried. So they tried over and over again.

Clearly that was never the case that they would succeed but Eren made it seem like it was the case if they could just get her out of the rubble and him constantly telling her that he wouldn't leave her despite what Carla said such as her legs no longer working.

My point is that when Eren really wants something Mikasa always caves and follows him even if what he wants to put him at severe danger since if she's there than she can at least try and protect him.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Despite that she never considered Carla as her own mother and she moved on past her death much faster than Eren.

First off, even if she didn't regard Carla as a mother she still regarded Eren and his parents as her family and that is more than enough. Not to mention it hasn't been shown how old Mikasa was when she join the Jaeger family, from a certain age onward it gets much harder for a child to view another woman as her mother but not to view that person as family.

Secondly, how do you know she moved on from Carla's death so fast? Mikasa has always had such a dead look in her eyes that reading her is incredibly difficult. Not only that but the girl just lost part of her family for the second time, even for someone broken it most have been quite the shock. Not to mention that people handle grief in different ways...Eren lashed out in anger and sought revenge, Mikasa just bottled it all up and turned to protecting Eren even more fiercely.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Though Carla did turn to Mikasa she didn't tell her to take Eren and run, Mikasa was following Eren who honestly thought they could save her. Mikasa wasn't going to stop because she believes in Eren and even if she didn't see Carlas a mother she wasn't going to abandon her unless she didn't believe she could be saved which Eren made he believe that Carla could if they tried.

Clearly that was never the case but Eren made it seem like it was the case if they could just get her out of the rubble and him constantly telling her that he wouldn't leave her despite what Carla said such as her legs no longer working.

Carla clearly turned to Mikasa after telling them to escape...she didn't need to say the words again for her to understand and Mikasa did, she understood so well that she refused immediately.

All I see is a girl desperately trying to save a member of her family, not because her brother was doing the same, but because she saw that family member stuck under a collapsed house while Titans roamed around. It's as simple as that.

Eren did not put her in danger, they were just two kids trying to save their family and if you see anything else, you are reaching too hard to prove your point.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

My point is that when Eren really wants something Mikasa always caves and follows him even if what he wants to put him at severe danger since if she's there than she can at least try and protect him.

And that is her choice, there is no fault on Eren's part.

[Jan-Poo]

Destinate_Fate I can't quite agree with your conclusion that Mikasa only tried to save Carla because that's what Eren wanted.

Mikasa doesn't want to see any of her family to die, Carla included. Of course she cares about Eren more, but that time she really wanted to save Carla and just because she didn't cry or scream like Eren did it doesn't mean that she suffered any less.

[Destined_Fate]

Because she doesn't think about it after it has passed. She cries a little than moves on after the death had set in and her refocused her prioritizes back to Eren again. Such as how she went to Eren to comfort him after his little raging got him nowhere and he broke down.

The thing is that she DIDN'T say anything but just gave Mikasa a desperate look and nothing else. If Mikasa did force Eren to leave Carla than she would be losing Eren as well as he could never forgive her if she had forced him to abandon his mother. After all he had called her a traitor earlier so she was already in the shaky zone with him. Since Eren refused to leave no matter what she wouldn't leave either as she always caves in the end when it comes to Eren. Besides, since Eren wasn't leaving the best way she could protect, without hurting Eren, was to stay too and help if it was possible to save Carla. If that didn't work should could at least run Eren out at the last second as the Titan would be pre-occupied with eating Carla.

I never said it was Eren's fault when he joined the military. However it was his fault when he decided to try and save Carla despite there being no way that they could. Remember that Mikasa values Eren more than anything else and when he really wants something she always follows him despite the dangers to himself or her.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Destinate_Fate I can't quite agree with your conclusion that Mikasa only tried to save Carla because that's what Eren wanted.

Mikasa doesn't want to see any of her family to die, Carla included. Of course she cares about Eren more, but that time she really wanted to save Carla and just because she didn't cry or scream like Eren did it doesn't mean that she suffered any less.

Of course she doesn't want to see anyone die but Eren has priority. Eren wasn't going to leave Carla no matter what so the best thing Mikasa could do was stay and try to help in the off chance that her being there may have made a difference despite how slim it was.

See how fast she stopped crying after Carla died and how quickly she returned to being overprotective of Eren. What she feels or wants to feel always comes after Eren in her book. So even though she loved Carla as family(though she never considered her a mother) she loves Eren more.

The issue is that when Eren really wants something very badly she is unable to stop him because she loves him too much to make him hate her. So she settles for following him since it's the only way she can protect him without him hating her. Though that puts her life in danger and it is her choice it doesn't change that Eren's decisions are always extremely dangerous and Mikasa has every reason to believe that Eren will need her at his side for such things.

[Randrak42]

I see now that it is utterly useless to argue with you on this.
I'm done with this discussion, let's agree to disagree.

[Destined_Fate]

Very well than, that's for the best. Neither of us are going to convince the other and from my experience with dragging things out with others is that it always ends with no one ever being satisfied after days of debate.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Of course she doesn't want to see anyone die but Eren has priority.

Not anyone, you still irrationally refuse to accept what is evident from that scene. Mikasa wouldn't have thought it twice to take Eren away if it was someone else under those debris. Rationally there was absolutely no point in staying there. Carla simply couldn't be saved. And Mikasa wouldn't have had any problem at carrying Eren away. We have proof that she could do that. Eren wouldn't have been able to fight back if she decided to forcibly take him away.

This is the only time where Mikasa acted irrationally even though it was a risk for Eren to remain there. If she had Eren's survival in mind and nothing else she should have ran as fast as possible away from the Titans with him. Instead she wasted time trying to lift something that she couldn't possibly lift no matter how much she tried.

[Destined_Fate]

Not really. If it was their best friend and Eren wanted to stay to try and save him than she would have stayed until the very last second before getting Eren out(Which I'm sure should have have done if the Titan was literally upon them). If it was a stranger that they had no connection to than she wouldn't have stayed since she will not save someone they don't know if it is a a danger Eren's safety unless he(like with Carla) told her he wasn't going anywhere and that he needed her help to save the person.

Sure Carla dying hurt(as she WAS family, even if Mikasa didn't see her as a mother) but she got over it since Eren needed her as the death of his mother and his powerlessness settled in. If Eren died I'm sure she wouldn't just cry but would go full BSOD or just lose the will to live as she values him above everyone else, even herself.

From what we've seen Mikasa always caves to Eren and does things for his benefit even if it inconveniences her or puts her in danger. Eren joining the military is a HUGE risk to him but she always caves by letting him do what he wants if he really wants it just as long as she's allowed to tag along no matter where he goes so she can at least protect him.

The way I see it is that Mikasa believes that if she can't convince Eren than she will not force him to do do anything he doesn't want to and will simply follow and stay with him til she no longer can despite the dangers.

[Tenzen12]

Mikasa doesn't cry, she doesn't smile and neither she get angry (not much at least). But it doesn't mean she doesn't have emotions, just that she doesn't show them. Which is also one of many way some people can deal with their problems.

Even that she protect Eren so fiercely might be result of knowing pain of loose precious person.

[eplipswich]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Of course she doesn't want to see anyone die but Eren has priority. Eren wasn't going to leave Carla no matter what so the best thing Mikasa could do was stay and try to help in the off chance that her being there may have made a difference despite how slim it was.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

See how fast she stopped crying after Carla died and how quickly she returned to being overprotective of Eren.

Have you actually noticed that when Mikasa tried to save Carla, she was actually desperate and not actually thinking straight?

Okay, let me first refer you back to close to the end of Episode 2, where Mikasa said to Eren that he is her "only" family left. That alone has a good implication that she doesn't want to lose Eren only because he is the last person she considers family. Meaning to say, had Eren died before his mother did, chances are, she might just bottle up her feelings and do all she can to protect Eren's mother.

And also, may I also advise that you rewatch the scene where Mikasa tried to rescue Eren's mother. Two key moments in that scene. First is Mikasa's terrified look on her face when Eren's mother cried to Eren, "Please just listen to me! Just one last time!", to which Mikasa replied, "No! No!". Given that circumstance, I don't think Mikasa was actually following Eren and taking priority over him because clearly, she wouldn't say that if that is so. Perhaps you can say that Mikasa cried "No!" because she doesn't want Eren to lose his mother, but if you think about it, given Mikasa's very dark background (from what is seen in the anime), and seeing another one of the persons she considers her family getting killed, I would believe that is the time, albeit a short period of time, when she gave in to her emotions that she so strongly braced against.

And the second is Mikasa's horrified look when she saw Eren's mother getting chewed. Sure, you can argue that that was only because the chewing is horrifying in general. Anyone would have felt that way, but what I see in that look was the pure shock of another one of whom she considers family lost.

Anyway, we don't know the full extent of Mikasa's character yet so none of us (except for manga readers, but that's another story) can really make a firm conclusion of whether Eren has higher priority than his mother. So this quote

If Eren died I'm sure she would go full BSOD or just lose the will to live as she values him above everyone else, even herself.

is merely your assumption/opinion.

Now, the only exception I could definitely assert, of course, is about Eren's father. If you say that Eren takes priority over Eren's father for Mikasa, that I would highly agree.

May I also add that quiet characters like Mikasa are the sort of characters that are most vulnerable when they actually give in to their emotions and let them out, like back when she tried to save Eren's mother. Those quiet characters are also the sort of characters that seemingly show a strong side but haven't actually fully recovered from their painful emotions. They simply put them aside.

[Destined_Fate]

I doubt she would go as far for her as she does for Eren. Had Eren died she may very well have lost her desire to live as she follows him everywhere and the such as well as being overprotective of him. Eren is her #1 priority and if it's between any other she considers family(or even her own life) or Eren I can see her always choosing Eren all the time.

I'm not saying she didn't love Carla since she did. At that time the Titan hadn't been shown yet so just ditching Carla wasn't an option since she was still save-able without Eren being in severe danger. When the Titan showed up they all hesitated since that changed everything since they literally had no time left. When that guy(Forget) decided to try and save them all they continued again, when he came back for them Eren struggled far more than Mikasa who seemed to have owned up that there was nothing they could do anymore despite everything they did and how much both didn't just want to leave Carla.

Of course Mikasa is horrified by that. She loved Carla as family and now she lost a family member and Eren just lost his mother. Mikasa may have trouble with emotions but she isn't completely cold. She accepted Carla's death after she initially despaired and went to Eren who needed her to be strong since he was completely torn up over losing his mother. Even though losing family is hard she isn't going to lose Eren too if she can help it. Hence why she's willing to go where ever he goes since even though she can have a great and peaceful future due to her skills she would rather have a future with Eren in it despite how much danger it is just being near him.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Mikasa doesn't cry, she doesn't smile and neither she get angry (not much at least). But it doesn't mean she doesn't have emotions, just that she doesn't show them. Which is also one of many way some people can deal with their problems.

Even that she protect Eren so fiercely might be result of knowing pain of loose precious person.

She was crying a bit when she was carried off but stopped(from shock maybe) when she saw Carla get eaten.

[frodonk]

Where's Eren's father in all of these anyway?

I remember the chief (trainer?) calling his name and saying something about his son "becoming a soldier" back in last part of ep3 but he hasn't been shown since he was riding a carriage back to shigashina.

also, what was in their basement anyway?

[Destined_Fate]

He vanished.

Than Eren had a very trippy dream about him and ended up with the key around his neck.

I honestly don't recall HOW he got that key since his dad only showed it to him before walking out. Did he give it to Eren than? I forget.

I'm guess what was in there was most likely something used for SCIENCE! As what else do you keep in Anime basements but super secret Scient projects? Or it's medical I guess... I mean he IS a doctor and apparently cured something a long time ago.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

He vanished.

Than Eren had a very trippy dream about him and ended up with the key around his neck.

I honestly don't recall HOW he got that key since his dad only showed it to him before walking out. Did he give it to Eren than? I forget.

I'm guess what was in there was most likely something used for SCIENCE! As what else do you keep in Anime basements but super secret Scient projects? Or it's medical I guess... I mean he IS a doctor and apparently cured something a long time ago.

He definitely met his dad. IIRC, Eren stated that after Carla's death he had been acting strange, and Mikasa showed no surprise at Eren having the key. Both of these things would have been really strange/impossible did he not met them.

Before attack on Shiganshima, Grisha (his dad's name) had curiously been called to inner city which implies he may have some ties to the Government. It's very likely he's been assisting in some top secret project.