Aquarion EVOL - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Destined_Fate]

This is very interesting... Zessica isn't dead that's for sure. Mykage will use her to try and get the wings. I either see this working with Amata refusing to stop her under threat of her losing her life or repaying that kiss and accepting that he was so focused on Mikono, the woman that treated him like dirt thus far, and leading him on while tormenting Zessica, and is constantly thinking about boning Kagura while keeping Amata on the side, that he never gave much thought that he was really in love with Zessica all along(Hence the kiss forceing him to deal with this issue, and getting his mind off Mikono long enough to think straight, and his heart awakening to her). Thus breaking Mykage's hold on her and causing him to try and take matters into his own hands since Amata just out trolled him.

Whatever the case I look forward to the next episode. I really hope Amata, angry over the supposed death of Zessica, gives Mikono a good yelling at and rejects her weak arguements after seeing her reaction to Kagura. Had she not been dragging him by the nose this whole time he wouldn't have made such an easy pawn for Mykage to manipulate which in turn lead to Zessica being made into a pawn as well over her distraught state concerning Amata and later Mix.

[mayumi]

@miketyson

Very nice write up. I agree that if amata falls in love with zess and chooses her that cycle would repeat with mikono in touma's position. Which is why I think zessica won't get with or win amata in current time. The cycle needs to end. i also believe when zessica knows the full history of apollonius-celiane story, she might actually feel sad for mikono who never gets together with her past lover. Compassion that celiane did not have for touma, zessica might have. However mikono could make a decision herself that ends the cycle.

If amata and zessica have any chance it is only whenever they reincarnate again without any promises and completely no burdens from the past, that is only if they do.

[pingva]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

-As you forgot the fact that Celiane's soul split in half

It didn't matter in the end. They just needed all parts of Apollonius and a real Angel with the 3rd pilot having Celliane's blood. You just needed to hurt enough Appolo that he would have the reason to awaken.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

-The fact that they met under different circumstances, as completely different people

It didn't matter in the end. They still managed to repeat it with their own result.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

- Heck the fact that they were different people alone

It didn't matter in the end. They still managed to repeat it.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

- The fact that they actually had to fall in love again, it didn't just happen

It didn't matter in the end. They still managed to repeat it.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

- The fact that it takes a while for a reincarnation to remember their past lives, and that you can't fake it or force it, cause they unconsciously know the difference and its likely that they won't respond to it.

In Genesis they forced it and it worked.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

- The fact that Aquarion was used to pull the land together

After 12 000 years pollination happened - it didn't worked, at least the planet is in one piece. They always manage to accomplish something good.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

- The fact that Toma (the main villain) piloted Aquarion along with Sirius (descended of Celiane and Apollonius as well as half of Celiane's reincarnation), and Apollo (who himself was half of Apollonius's reincarnation).

This is important to get Wings of the Sun. Apollonius + some part of Celliane + Angel. Now we have two parts of Apollonius being alive with a question if one their parents is an angel + Celliane's part with strong connection power + a question do we need still an angel to get full wings of the sun or just to connect to living parts of the previous angel. No wonder that Mykage forces Amata x Mikono x Kagura. It would be more interesting to know why Zen wanted Zessica x Amata x Mikono and was unhappy that Kagura took Zessica's place in the 6 episode.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by pingva

It didn't matter in the end. They just needed all parts of Apollonius and a real Angel with he 3rd pilot having Celliane's blood. You just needed to hurt enough Appolo and he would have the reason to awaken.

Except that's not what happened, in the end it was Silvia who connected Toma, Sirius and Apollo and got them to stop fighting. In order to release the final mugen punch.

A world of difference from what happened 24,000 years ago, where Celiane just sat off on the sidelines, while Toma and Apollonius fought.

It didn't matter in the end. They still managed to repeat it with their own result.

Except it does, the fact that they are completely different people means that trying to bring out the essence of the past life is impossible, and it also means that the person that you can't treat them the same as their past lives. They don't act like their past lives and aren't as receiving to that behavior, if its faked.

It didn't matter in the end. They still managed to repeat it.

Except it does, since they didn't really repeat the events of 12,000 years ago. It pretty much cements the fact that they have to get them to fall in love on their own. It means that they won't just automatically fall in love just because they loved each other in their past lives.

It didn't matter in the end. They still managed to repeat it.

Except it does, because it means that every time Apollonius and Celiane are reincarnated they start over from scratch, so you can't expect them to already be in love, when they meet, nor are they obligated to be either. There are no shortcuts.

In Genesis they forced it and it worked.

No they didn't, they remembered their past lives pretty spontaneously mostly due to situations. When Toma once tried to force out the memory he was met with confusion and anger from Apollo, and when Sirius was lied to about his past life Silvia unconsciously knew that he was wrong.

After 12 000 years pollination happened - it didn't worked, at least the planet is one piece.

Are you mistaking OVA for TV series? Because in tv series they pulled the planet back together, when the world was breaking apart (which they succeeded in since EVOL exists in the first place) and in the OVA they pollinated it. The last episode of aquarion scene they show in episode 18. And again that was the last time that Solar wings was actually out and about.

This is important to get Wings of the Sun Apollonius + some part of Celliane + Angel. Now we have two parts of Apollonius being alive with a question if one their parents is an angel + Celliane's part with strong connection power + a question do we need still an angel to get full wings of the sun or just to connect to living parts of the previous angel. No wonder that Mykage forces Amata x Mikono x Kagura. It would be more interesting to know why Zen wanted Zessica x Amata x Mikono.

NO the wings of the sun were just Apollonius's wings/ Apollonius himself., they never said anything about Celiane being a part of the wings of the sun. In fact Toma only stated that he attained the wings of the sun when he had pinned down Vector Sol and Apollo.
Sirius and Silvia were never once called the wings of the sun, they only mentioned it in regards to Apollonius's reincarnation that they were searching for. It has nothing to do with Celiane and Apollonius's descendants. Aquarion was just especially responsive towards Celianes and Apollonius's love, but that's it.

Did you really watch Aquarion? Or are you confusing OVA for TV series, because the OVA was never once referenced in EVOL. You got a lot of information about it wrong concerning Sousei.

I find it hilarious that you're trying to say that the events from 12,000 years ago don't matter, when its the only thing being referenced in series. So far Apollonius has only been mentioned once only by Mykage, and Celiane wasn't mentioned at all. So as far as this series is concerned what happened 24,000 doesn't matter, since a lot of things changed after 12,000 years.

[pingva]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

A world of difference from what happened 24,000 years ago, where Celiane just sat off on the sidelines, while Toma and Apollonius fought.

Yes, she at least has done something this time.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Except it does, the fact that they are completely different people means that trying to bring out the essence of the past life is impossible, and it also means that the person that you can't treat them the same as their past lives. They don't act like their past lives and aren't as receiving to that behavior, if its faked.

Except it does, since they didn't really repeat the events of 12,000 years ago. It pretty much cements the fact that they have to get them to fall in love on their own. It means that they won't just automatically fall in love just because they loved each other in their past lives.

Except it does, because it means that every time Apollonius and Celiane are reincarnated they start over from scratch, so you can't expect them to already be in love, when they meet, nor are they obligated to be either. There are no shortcuts.

It didn't matter that they were different people they still fell in love. You don't need to remember past life to fall in love with the same person or repeat the same thing or act the same way or don't act the same way as in previous life.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

No they didn't, they remembered their past lives pretty spontaneously mostly due to situations. When Toma once tried to force out the memory he was met with confusion and anger from Apollo, and when Sirius was lied to about his past life Silvia unconsciously knew that he was wrong.

It wasn't anything spontaneous for Apollo, but it's true for Silvia. You needed Apollo to hurt or give him the feather that he would remember something.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Are you mistaking OVA for TV series? Because in tv series they pulled the planet back together, when the world was breaking apart (which they succeeded in since EVOL exists in the first place) and in the OVA they pollinated it. The last episode of aquarion scene they show in episode 18. And again that was the last time that Solar wings was actually out and about.

Yes, the planet was in one piece.
They pollinated Tree of life, but as in EVOL it was mentioned the Tree managed to bloom, but no fruits. Something didn't worked.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

NO the wings of the sun were just Apollonius's wings/ Apollonius himself., they never said anything about Celiane being a part of the wings of the sun. In fact Toma only stated that he attained the wings of the sun when he had pinned down Vector Sol and Apollo.
Sirius and Silvia were never once called the wings of the sun, they only mentioned it in regards to Apollonius's reincarnation that they were searching for. It has nothing to do with Celiane and Apollonius's descendants. Aquarion was just especially responsive towards Celianes and Apollonius's love, but that's it.

To get the wings of sun complete(it was said in the last episode that without Angel Aquarion's power is incomplete)- golden Aquarion you needed all Apollonius and a real angel in Aquarion, and the 3rd pilot was one of Celliane's part(this one most likely can be anyone).
I've never said that it doesn't matter what happened in 24 000 and 12 000 years ago. It's just it's almost the same thing when you look at the basics(hack even Silvia in the last episode said that there are parts that doesn't change no matter what), the only difference is that Silvia(Celliane) has chosen to do something else besides fighting. This time again we need someone who would choose to do something different from 24 000 and 12 000 years ago. Of course that 12 000 years events would affect how characters would behave.
Actually it seems Apollonius is more important : Zen was talking about it with Mykage and Zen tells the story of Apollponius and Celliane to Mikono this episode.
I just remembered that Sirius was healed by being in Aquarion in the last episode. Shrade might outlive everyone.

I'm not invested in any pair in Aquarion EVOL. I don't care if Mikono chooses any romantic interest or with whom Amata is going to end up.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

This is very interesting... Zessica isn't dead that's for sure. Mykage will use her to try and get the wings. I either see this working with Amata refusing to stop her under threat of her losing her life or repaying that kiss

And this is where it goes just wrong. Repaying? Why should he repay it? This entire idea of Amata being somehow obligated to return Zessica's love (either actually feeling obligated to, or the writers forcing him to) because omg she loves him so much, the poor girl, just makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

[obligatory Mikono bashing] he never gave much thought that he was really in love with Zessica all along(Hence the kiss forceing him to deal with this issue, and getting his mind off Mikono long enough to think straight, and his heart awakening to her).

Except Amata had more than enough time to reflect on his feelings for Zessica after she confessed to him (especially since she did it with such publicity), and apparently he did think about it because he went out of his way to turn her down properly, and after that he was still 100% Mikono without having any doubts about his feelings. So yeah.

There's just no way that an Amata x Zessica pairing could happen now without it being seriously contrived. Which, of course, doesn't mean it can't happen but I just don't see how anyone outside of hardcore Zessica fans and Mikono and Amata x Mikono haters would be pleased by it... Both Zessica and Amata deserve much better than that sort of treatment. If they'd been planning Amata x Zessica then I would've preferred to see it a) without destroying Zessica's character by turning into a pile of wangst whose entire existence is defined by her love for Amata, and b) Amata actually showing some romantic interest in her during all these episodes.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

There's just no way that an Amata x Zessica pairing could happen now without it being seriously contrived. Which, of course, doesn't mean it can't happen but I just don't see how anyone outside of hardcore Zessica fans and Mikono and Amata x Mikono haters would be pleased by it... If they'd been planning Amata x Zessica then I would've preferred to see it without a) destroying Zessica's character by turning into a pile of wangst whose entire existence is defined by her love for Amata, and b) Amata not showing any romantic interest in her since ep 1.

With the same kind of argumentation,I could ask you how Amata fans could support AmataxMikono pairing since it has been making him a miserable doormat most of the time.

And as someone who likes Mikono, I don't see why I should push her into a lackluster relationship with Amata while she's barely shown caring or thinking about him.

So according to you, if you're an Amata or a Mikono fans you've got to support Amata Mikono regardless of how badly developped it had been.

And Zessica's pile of wangst is not worse than Amata's Mikono-saaaaaaaaaaaaaan's obssession.

[pingva]

That's how look their emotions for each other from my point of view:

Amata: "I love you Mikono." or "You like me, please love and never leave me like my mother."
Zessica: "I love you Amata."
Mikono: "I like you Amata."
Kagura: everything is too much messed up with him.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Zuul

With the same kind of argumentation,I could ask you how Amata fans could support AmataxMikono pairing since it has been making him a miserable doormat most of the time.

Except Amata is pretty much taking it in stride as much as it's possible. He has his moments and is obviously not happy and confused about where he stands, but aside of that he's not wallowing in depression the way Zessica does. His feelings for Mikono don't define his entire character the way Zessica has been exclusively about "loves Amata" for the last 10+ episodes, and despite what some people say the writing hasn't been pushing "pity Amata, he's so miserable!" either. Because, well, he's not miserable.

Originally Posted by Zuul

And as someone who likes Mikono, I don't see why I should push her into a lackluster relationship with Amata while she's barely shown caring or thinking about him.

Wait, you like Mikono? Since when? Anyway, see below--

Originally Posted by Zuul

So according to you, if you're an Amata or a Mikono fans you've got to support Amata Mikono regardless of how badly developped it had been.

Actually, if you read my post carefully, I didn't mention Amata x Mikono even once. I was talking about how an Amata x Zessica pairing would be contrived. I don't particularly give a damn who supports what and why.

[BetoJR]

It would be interesting if nobody ended up with a solid relationship, after all this. I can see it happening...

Anyway, how many more episodes do we have?

[Destined_Fate]

Anyone else getting tired of Shrade and his "health"? The guy has been supposedly "Dying" since he was first introduced. He better actually die because this is getting redundant and will end up as afailed plot point if he suddenly gets better. Sorta like how Xingke in Code Geass was "sick" and "dying" yet he gets through to the end like his health was never an issue. I'm guessing they just forgot about Xingke at that point and overlooked his supposed looming death.

Originally Posted by BetoJR

It would be interesting if nobody ended up with a solid relationship, after all this. I can see it happening...

Anyway, how many more episodes do we have?

I think 5 at the most. Wonder how they'll re-introduce Mixy into play, almost forgot about her... Him.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And this is where it goes just wrong. Repaying? Why should he repay it? This entire idea of Amata being somehow obligated to return Zessica's love (either actually feeling obligated to, or the writers forcing him to) because omg she loves him so much, the poor girl, just makes me want to bang my head against a wall.


Except Amata had more than enough time to reflect on his feelings for Zessica after she confessed to him (especially since she did it with such publicity), and apparently he did think about it because he went out of his way to turn her down properly, and after that he was still 100% Mikono without having any doubts about his feelings. So yeah.

There's just no way that an Amata x Zessica pairing could happen now without it being seriously contrived. Which, of course, doesn't mean it can't happen but I just don't see how anyone outside of hardcore Zessica fans and Mikono and Amata x Mikono haters would be pleased by it... Both Zessica and Amata deserve much better than that sort of treatment. If they'd been planning Amata x Zessica then I would've preferred to see it a) without destroying Zessica's character by turning into a pile of wangst whose entire existence is defined by her love for Amata, and b) Amata actually showing some romantic interest in her during all these episodes.

He should repay it because he ignored her feelings this whole time because he kept trying to gain the affections of Mikono who just isn't that interested, especially when Kagura appears and turns her switch on. Mikono likes that Amata loves her but she would rather be with Kagura at least that's what 21 episodes have shown thusfar. Hence why she does nothing for their relationship but gets extremely jealous when Zessica tries to get his attention. She doesn't want to share, she wants Kagura, the bad boy, in the bedroom and Amata, the good boy, to forever wait for her when she'll never come to him.

It also makes more sense than Mikono who has thought very little of Amata this whole time and is constantly lusting after Kagura. Zessica simply makes more sense. Whatever the case, I hope that Zessica wins and that cold Mikono loses and the cycle is broken. It's entirely sadistic if Mikono wins when she has never cared for Amata as much as she cares for Kagura and hasn't even gone an 1/8 of the distance Zessica has.

Not true. He was thinking about Mikono the whole time, he never once considered that he might love Zessica over Mikono because he felt that Mikono was the one even though she has huge commitment issues and wants Kagura over him. You know despite Mikono ignoring Amata for Kagura for 21 episodes so far. Just like the arguement that Amata has ignored Zessica for 21 episodes which he hasn't(Which is entirely cruel in its self since he's acting like Mikono in wanting the best of both worlds by giving Zessica mixed signals and stilll chasing after Mikono who's chasing after Kagura), he just didn't understand his feelings for her until she kissed him and he lost her in the same instance. After all, you can't appreciate that you have something great until you lose it.

Zessica's still going to be used by Mykage so you aren't going to get that wish right away. Amata will surely play a part in freeing and saving her and trolling Mykage who never expects anything to backfire on him(He does have a God Complex). You also can't deny that Amata has shown a huge attraction and felt something for Zessica, especially from that kiss(Which put doubts in his head about where he was going with Mikono(Nowhere atm) who clearly doesn't need his help and isn't even thinking about him). He quickly abandoned his search for Mikono, who he's sure is in "danger" and "calling" to him for help, to desperately try and get to Zessica. As for his feelings for Zessica, he feels that he's with Mikono so he doesn't pursue it even if there is something there. So, I do applaude Amata for at least trying to be loyal unlike Mikono, who has shown zero loyalty and her indecesiveness has caused others great suffering, but at the same time he keeps giving off signs to Zessica to keep her within reaching distance. So in a way he's just as bad as Mikono in that regard.

[evil|plushie]

Just because someone likes someone else doesn't mean that someone else is obligated to return their love. Seriously -_-....

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by pingva

Yes, she at least has done something this time.

And what she actually did was important

It didn't matter that they were different people they still fell in love. You don't need to remember past life to fall in love with the same person or repeat the same thing or act the same way or don't act the same way as in previous life.

Except, how would we know that if it wasn't for the events of 12,000 years ago? How would you know that if you didn't actually see it play out yourself? Their personalities were very different from their past lives, and Silvia at the end of Aquarion even pointed out that she wasn't Celiane when Oruha kept on referring to her as such.

It wasn't anything spontaneous for Apollo, but it's true for Silvia. You needed Apollo to hurt or give him the feather that he would remember something.

Actually Apollo never remembered when he was faced with fear or hurt, he only really reacted if the situation called for it. In 24 whn Toma hurts Apollo he just reacts with anger.

Yes, the planet was in one piece.
They pollinated Tree of life, but as in EVOL it was mentioned the Tree managed to bloom, but no fruits. Something didn't worked.

They actually never showed the tree in EVOL or mentioned so how can you say it didn't work? If the tree didn't bloom then the world of EVOL wouldn't be around. Your making assumptions.

To get the wings of sun complete(it was said in the last episode that without Angel Aquarion's power is incomplete)- golden Aquarion you needed all Apollonius and a real angel in Aquarion, and the 3rd pilot was one of Celliane's part(this one most likely can be anyone).

Except they never once said, that. Maybe your confused, but they only referred to the wings of the Sun when talking about Apollo and Vector Sol. They never once called Celiane the a part of the wings of the sun.

I've never said that it doesn't matter what happened in 24 000 and 12 000 years ago. It's just it's almost the same thing when you look at the basics(hack even Silvia in the last episode said that there are parts that doesn't change no matter what), the only difference is that Silvia(Celliane) has chosen to do something else besides fighting. This time again we need someone who would choose to do something different from 24 000 and 12 000 years ago. Of course that 12 000 years events would affect how characters would behave.
Actually it seems Apollonius is more important : Zen was talking about it with Mykage and Zen tells the story of Apollponius and Celliane to Mikono this episode.
I just remembered that Sirius was healed by being in Aquarion in the last episode. Shrade might outlive everyone.

Except you insistence that the events of 12,000 don't matter, or matter less than the events of 24,000 (which are never mentioned or even implied to be even a ) tells a completely different story. Your only looking at the basics of the story, not the detail, which is very different in both cases so much so that just knowledge of one era will not help you with another.

Only Mykage really brings up 24000 years ago, because he doesn't know about 12,000 years. So he's still under the impression that the basic rules of 24000 years ago still apply. Neither Kagura or Amata remember or care about Apollonius.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

(lots of stuff)

And yet again, here we are: "I think an Amata x Zessica pairing would be very contrived at this point." "But Zessica deserves Amata's love for loving him so much, and Mikono is a bitch anyway because of stuff that's only true in my head."

Well, OK then!

This discussion has gone waaaay too long and far for my taste. Just to be clear: I would've been perfectly OK with an Amata x Zessica pairing, but after these 21 episodes? Sorry, I still think it would be very contrived. And for the 100th time, no-one is obligated to love somebody back just because that somebody loves them, no matter how much ~pure love~ and ~suffering~ is involved (which is not exactly the sign of a healthy relationship anyway, but this is anime). Amata is not obligated to love Zessica, Mikono is not obligated to love Amata or Kagura, etc.

Which is not to say no-one can ship it, ship it to your hearts' content. You may end up happy. But my opinion won't change so yeah.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Anyone else getting tired of Shrade and his "health"? The guy has been supposedly "Dying" since he was first introduced. He better actually die because this is getting redundant and will end up as afailed plot point if he suddenly gets better. Sorta like how Xingke in Code Geass was "sick" and "dying" yet he gets through to the end like his health was never an issue. I'm guessing they just forgot about Xingke at that point and overlooked his supposed looming death.

Good points.

I have to admit that Shrade's health issues are starting to drag a bit plot-wise for me too. It's not a major issue for me, but it's certainly at a point now where any emotional impact that Sharde's health issues could have had on me is long gone.

I think the main issue here is not only is Shrade continuing to fight in battle all the time in spite of his health issues, but also that those health issues don't even seem to hold him back any. It's not like his movement speed is a bit slow, or that his mecha has a limp leg reflecting Shrade's health issues, or anything like that.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And yet again, here we are: "I think an Amata x Zessica pairing would be very contrived at this point." "But Zessica deserves Amata's love for loving him so much, and Mikono is a bitch anyway because of stuff that's only true in my head."

Well, OK then!

If we were watching a non-fictional documentary/historical re-enactment here, I'd entirely agree with you.

But we're not. We're watching fiction.

So... the writers are clearly trying very hard to make the viewer feel sorry for Zessica (and it's not like "Well, that's how it happened in real life, so we have to portray it that way"). Well, guess what? The writers succeeded.

I'm honestly surprised we don't have more folks reacting like Destined_Fate and Zuul are. It's the most natural response to where the writers have taken the love quadrangle (unless you simply never liked Zessica at all to begin with).

Especially from the perspective of a male viewer, it's very easy to feel sorry for Zessica, and to think "What is wrong with Amata?"

Many male viewers likely think "Sure Mikono is cute and all, but so is Zessica, and Zessica is going all-out for Amata! Meanwhile, Mikono seems to be a bit divided between Amata and Kagura. If I was in Amata's shoes, I'd go with Zessica". (what I bolded there is particularly important.)

The writing staff should have known that a lot of viewers (especially male ones) would react this way to Zessica's sad state of affairs if they kept pushing that sad state of affairs on us. At this point, I think that most guys watching this show want to give Zessica a big hug.

This is why the overall handling of the love quadrangle is so bizarre. We're clearly meant to feel sorry for Zessica, and that clearly is going to make people not feel as good about Amata/Mikono. I really liked Amata/Mikono at one time, but now when I think about it, almost all I see is heartbroken Zessica...

I suppose maybe this is the troll. Okada's new method of trolling shippers in a nasty all-around way (giving one group of shippers a *very* Pyrrhic victory, while giving another group of shippers utter pain).


Anyway, of course you're right that Amata isn't obligated to love Zessica, and nor is Mikono obligated to love Amata. But Amata is the male lead, and so will be an obvious "touch-point" character for male viewers (i.e. a lot of male viewers will live the show vicariously through Amata). So when Amata's choices are way off from what the viewer would do if in his shoes, that can displease the audience.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And yet again, here we are: "I think an Amata x Zessica pairing would be very contrived at this point." "But Zessica deserves Amata's love for loving him so much, and Mikono is a bitch anyway because of stuff that's only true in my head."

Well, OK then!

This discussion has gone waaaay too long and far for my taste. Just to be clear: I would've been perfectly OK with an Amata x Zessica pairing, but after these 21 episodes? Sorry, I still think it would be very contrived. And for the 100th time, no-one is obligated to love somebody back just because that somebody loves them, no matter how much ~pure love~ and ~suffering~ is involved (which is not exactly the sign of a healthy relationship anyway, but this is anime). Amata is not obligated to love Zessica, Mikono is not obligated to love Amata or Kagura, etc.

Which is not to say no-one can ship it, ship it to your hearts' content. You may end up happy. But my opinion won't change so yeah.

Basically this. I don't care anymore about the who gets together. But at this point of time in the series, Amata suddenly showing interest in Zessica would be too contrived. Especially since he's had time to think about it, and from his behavior and the fact that the actually tried to reject her, its obvious that he did think about it and still isn't in love with her.

Ditto with Kagura who isn't even fleshed out character, I mean his attraction to Mikono is very shallow, because they barely talk to one another.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So... the writers are clearly trying very hard to make the viewer feel sorry for Zessica (and it's not like "Well, that's how it happened in real life, so we have to portray it that way"). Well, guess what? The writers succeeded.

I'm honestly surprised we don't have more folks reacting like Destined_Fate and Zuul are. It's the most natural response to where the writers have taken the love quadrangle (unless you simply never liked Zessica at all to begin with).

I don't know - I'm not a guy so I guess I can't see it like a typical male viewer (no Izumo, don't take me away, I don't want to be kuromi-xy!). And I might be jaded and don't have natural reactions to things, because what I see on this front is: some blatantly manipulative and painful writing, Zessica's entire character getting reduced to "loves Amata" and "oh poor girl, PITY HER" (remember what she was like in the beginning? yeah), and Amata not being interested for 21 episodes. (To say nothing of the writing flaws affecting the entire AMZK quadrangle.) At one point I felt sorry for Zessica, but I don't react well to writers basically commanding me to feel sorry for someone. (It was the same in Gankutsuou with Franz, except there the PITY HIM thing was handled in a much less in-your-face way, even though from the start he never even had a chance for his love interest to love him back.)

Btw, I like Zessica just fine, and the way she's been treated lately is annoying me specially because they've turned her into something that goes pretty much against of why I liked her in the first place. I mean, remember Zessica from the first 10+ eps? Before she started spiraling downward? Yeah. Angst is fine, melodrama is fine, but frankly, this is ridiculous, and she would've deserved a much better treatment. (All of them, actually, but that's another issue.) IMO, you don't have to agree, and all that.

And with this I'm getting out of this discussion because it has turned into something I really wanted to avoid. This is why being bored at work and surfing forums is not a good idea.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Just because someone likes someone else doesn't mean that someone else is obligated to return their love. Seriously -_-....

But he did return her love after she kissed him and let him go. I could say the same for Mikono, just because Amata wants her doesn't change that she's far more interested in Kagura and there's no reason she should settle for Amata over the man that sets her heart ablaze.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And yet again, here we are: "I think an Amata x Zessica pairing would be very contrived at this point." "But Zessica deserves Amata's love for loving him so much, and Mikono is a bitch anyway because of stuff that's only true in my head."

Well, OK then!

This discussion has gone waaaay too long and far for my taste. Just to be clear: I would've been perfectly OK with an Amata x Zessica pairing, but after these 21 episodes? Sorry, I still think it would be very contrived. And for the 100th time, no-one is obligated to love somebody back just because that somebody loves them, no matter how much ~pure love~ and ~suffering~ is involved (which is not exactly the sign of a healthy relationship anyway, but this is anime). Amata is not obligated to love Zessica, Mikono is not obligated to love Amata or Kagura, etc.

Which is not to say no-one can ship it, ship it to your hearts' content. You may end up happy. But my opinion won't change so yeah.

They have many ways that could make it work and much more smoothly than Mikono getting over Kagura and going for Amata who she has been leading on and ignoring, as well as thinking aout Kagura even when with him, for 21 episodes now. I do agree with you that Zessica needs somethin else added to her other than her love for Amata. It would be a twist if Zessica breaks Mykages hold on her own but I don't think the writers want that. They will most likely go the drama route and have Amata be forced to save Zessica, with love or something, while Mikono watches in horror since like usual she'll come in at the worst possible time.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

But he did return her love after she kissed him and let him go. I could say the same for Mikono, just because Amata wants her doesn't change that she's far more interested in Kagura and there's no reason she should settle for Amata over the man that sets her heart ablaze.

No, no he didn't. Amata flies whenever he is emotionally stimulated, it actually has nothing to do with whether or not he loves someone.

Also Mikono doesn't really show an interest in Kagura either outside of wanting to apologize to him for something. They basically established that Shu shu only reacts violently to Amata because Mikono likes him.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

No, no he didn't. Amata flies whenever he is emotionally stimulated, it actually has nothing to do with whether or not he loves someone.

Also Mikono doesn't really show an interest in Kagura either outside of wanting to apologize to him for something. They basically established that Shu shu only reacts violently to Amata because Mikono likes him.

Yes he did. His reaction to her is just like how his heart reacted to Mikono in the past. From personal experience I know what that feeling is and I know what it feels like to feel nothing when someone kisses you(If he didn't feel anything for her he wouldn't have flown from that kiss, he would have been angry or confused not having his heart beat for her). He felt something when she kissed him and it was a feeling that he only, up to that point, felt for Mikono. So yes, at that moment he temporary forgot about Mikono and loved Zessica than watched her get taken away from him.

Mikono is going to get a surprise when Amata reaches her, he's going to be a different man. Especially if she acts all happy to see him, while sighing about Kagura, when he's still dealing with his grief over losing Zessica after feeling something like that from her.