(CR) Egao no Daika

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by devilo96

Dammit the princes is so fucking idiot....i mean...come one this is war...and she still say that fall back is a good choice...even the twin already prepare themselve so at least they can kill the commander......i mean...how many people need to die...so the famn fucking idiotic princess....open her eyes.....the damn idiotic princess...can only cry....
I mean no offense..but the new eps...really bad for me....but i love the other POV...
Now i really drop this one....

Eh.....she already opened her eyes to the reality of the situation....which was why she chose to strategically fall back and tried to negotiate with enemy to avoid a pointless death/sacrifice in an unwinnable battle.

[Chosen_Hero]

Serious question, has ANY female character (from the cast not NPC no names) died yet in this weird ass war? I dropped this anime a few episodes back but from what I keep reading or hearing all the deaths so far have been male characters.

[4th Dimension]

Well, TBH all deaths so far have been supporting characters after Mr. Hero back at the start. And there aren't that many supporting females to kill them off.

But yeah THREE (including Mr. Hero guy) named character deaths have all been male.

As for what actually happened, I can bet what happened was that the second Empire thought that if this NEW TECH was implemented it would do something to enviroment or crops or something that will cause crops failing and like. It fits given that they mention again in this episode that the food problems only started in recent years. Probably since the new reactors started comming on line. Plus the starting big BOOM probably irradiated or something the planet and got the ball rolling.

So the story would go, The third empire was minding own business researching shit as were the others. Kngdom and Grandiga, locked in a thirst for power decided to research together the new chars. They were warned not to do it but they went ahead. Third Empire terrorists hence BOOM.


Episode vise of course if you are predictable you are ging to get spanked. They should have learned this by now, given how many times Empire ambushed them.

As for hitting Eine Fleet, "Don't shoot down Yamamoto" much
More honestly, if the strike looses them one of their most important fighting forces I can't see it as a justified trade. Sure they are likely to buy themselves some time as the Empire needs to do some reshuffling of commanders, but given their performance so far they don't seem starved for good commanders.

[Liddo-kun]

Watched episode 8:

I have to say, the princess actually has a good strategy.. they are outnumbered, so only fight battles they can win, withdraw if the enemy has superior forces - although the enemy was able to predict her tactics later, causing some losses. The princess will learn more about war tactics as it goes on.

Izana is a hero, he could have escaped on that boat but choose to risk sending the information.

About trying to assassinate enemy commander... could be good or bad. Good if the empire cannot replace her right away, or replace her with someone incompetent. Bad if she get replaced with someone more cruel, or more intelligent. Also bad if assassination attempt fail, Yuni and her brother die for nothing.

[FlareKnight]

Credit to Izana. Definitely a heroic sacrifice. A very hard call. Get free and hopefully see his wife and family again. Or definitely get the data to his people and hopefully make sure his family has a future.

I don't mind the tactics the Princess was going with. Yes she's hesitant to take lives, but that also keeps her side from fighting fruitless battles. Just needs to learn to mix up her tactics or be prepared for someone to try and counter her moves. Tough to learn on the fly, but is trying.

[serenade_beta]

Is this anime 2-cour or something? I think we have had enough of "Princess getting everyone killed" to know she sucks.

Oh, but considering the animation quality only reaches satisfactory level when the princess is doing facial distortions, I'm starting to think they only made this anime to make lolis suffer.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by felix

It's hard to symphathize with "heart warming moments" such as what they tried in Ep7 when the characters are (a) the invaders (b) mass murderers (c) caused way more of the types of people they are by being there.

The best moment of Ep7 was with Miss General Hardass asking why the hell do they need to spend even more time and resources on military after the war?

If the Empire, or even Pierce himself, had been shown actually committing atrocities rather than only conducting a ruthless war, I'd probably still feel sorry for him. The show has done perfectly well in showing that the Empire's groundpounders are ordinary people driven to unnatural violence in a war outside their control. The FMA manga built sympathy for genociders even better.

(Speaking of FMA manga, I can guess without seeing ep8 that the baby names are a coded message)

But if people can't change their circumstances, can they change themselves? Ep7 very neatly drew double parallels between the Margrave obliged to fight by his ancient heritage, and the Emperor obliged to fight because he only seized power recently; and then again, Pierce feeling done down by his large, poor family, and Stella because she has no family. Both the highly placed and humble (including the Princess) misattribute the non-growth of the 'flower' of peace or self-realisation, when the fault is not in their stars but themselves.

This moral can be taken too far; some circumstances are manifestly unjust and should be changed. Hopefully both Stella and Yuki will be able to change themselves and then the unjust conditions of their countries. I think this anime has done a fairly good job of showing a human view of warfare.

On the Shakespeare theme, Yuki could be compared to Henry VI as well as Emperor Hirohito; the limp-wristed king who let the War of the Roses drag on without surrender or victory, feeling compelled to cling to his powerless and hated title of king. Yuki will hopefully end up less a 'victim of circumstance' than that.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Credit to Izana. Definitely a heroic sacrifice. A very hard call. Get free and hopefully see his wife and family again. Or definitely get the data to his people and hopefully make sure his family has a future.

I don't mind the tactics the Princess was going with. Yes she's hesitant to take lives, but that also keeps her side from fighting fruitless battles. Just needs to learn to mix up her tactics or be prepared for someone to try and counter her moves. Tough to learn on the fly, but is trying.

Izana turn the tables on the empire, I think they were going to execute him in a few days anyway. Now, he still died but used his life to gather important info to the kingdom.

I think the princess is actually doing a decent tactic. They are totally outnumbered... the 24 additional wonder weapons by Harold won't matter much when they face.. as said in a previous episode.. at least 50,000 enemy soldiers. Starving the empire out of resources is still the better tactic. Although in my opinion as well... Harold and the twins are right in that they need to risk killing the enemy commander. Can't wait for next week! >___<

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

This moral can be taken too far; some circumstances are manifestly unjust and should be changed. Hopefully both Stella and Yuki will be able to change themselves and then the unjust conditions of their countries. I think this anime has done a fairly good job of showing a human view of warfare.

What can Stella do though, being a lowly petty officer and all. I kinda feel Yuki's counterpart in the Empire should have been Eine rather than Stella. I mean, it's cool that we get the lowly soldiers' point of view and all, but I don't see what they can do to affect the plot in any way. That makes Stella's side of the story feel like a tacked on side thing.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

What can Stella do though, being a lowly petty officer and all. I kinda feel Yuki's counterpart in the Empire should have been Eine rather than Stella. I mean, it's cool that we get the lowly soldiers' point of view and all, but I don't see what they can do to affect the plot in any way. That makes Stella's side of the story feel like a tacked on side thing.

Initially it was the political figurehead Yuki who could do little to affect the plot, away from the battlefield and helpless to prevent a war that her knights were running for her. Political and personal circumstances accepted by the Emperor, the Margrave and the knights render them as incapable of ending the war as Yuki and Stella are. Yuki's efforts to save lives have generally failed, while Stella has been doing her job with true faux-Germanic efficiency.

The moral of ep7 was that no one, high-ranked or humble, has their life determined by their role or circumstances unless they accept them. I think Jean-Paul Sartre had a lot to say about a waiter in that regard. A Princess seems to have more opportunity than a lowly soldier to change the world, but it's useless without the ability to break out from her role as a helpless figurehead, and the lowly soldier can break out of their role in the same way. This wouldn't necessarily mean that Stella overthrows the Emperor, or ends the war single handed (although that's by no means unthinkable in an anime, and the actions of a single Horatius at a single point can very conceivably alter the course of a war). For Pierce, breaking out his role as a 'bad seed' was simply a necessity for his existing as a free human, something demobbed soldiers can certainly fail to do.

It could also be said that the actions of a Princess, doing her best, are as significant as a soldier doing her best, but that's more about choosing to accept one's role, another valid means to self-actualisation; though not a helpful one, when your job is to prosecute a pointless conflict. I expect Stella will do something with Yuki to end the war, despite her rank, which will be as transgressive for the princess as the enemy soldier. But if Stella is only able to smile as a human who wants to, rather than a circumstantially controlled orphan soldier who feels compelled to, her story would still be significant, and a relevant parallel to Yuki's character arc.

(I understand some circumstances are much more difficult to break out of that others, this is how I would interpret the anime's philosophy, but it certainly wouldn't be a perfect one).

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

But if Stella is only able to smile as a human who wants to, rather than a circumstantially controlled orphan soldier who feels compelled to, her story would still be significant, and a relevant parallel to Yuki's character arc.

It would be significant for her character. But it would still feel like a side show. I feel this is the kind of thing you deal with as c-plot using supporting characters. Protagonists must affect the plot. It's basically the role of a protagonist.

This is why I feel Eine should be the protagonist from the Empire's side instead of Stella. Stella would be better off as a supporting character whose storyline is mainly character-focused. Eine is in a better position to be plot-relevant. It's not Stella but Eine the one Yuuki should join forces with to resolve the plot.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It would be significant for her character. But it would still feel like a side show. I feel this is the kind of thing you deal with as c-plot using supporting characters. Protagonists must affect the plot. It's basically the role of a protagonist.

This is why I feel Eine should be the protagonist from the Empire's side instead of Stella. Stella would be better off as a supporting character whose storyline is mainly character-focused. Eine is in a better position to be plot-relevant. It's not Stella but Eine the one Yuuki should join forces with to resolve the plot.

It seems you feel that it would be unconvincing for a single low-ranked soldier like Stella to change the course of a war. It may well be, but I think it's at least equally unconvincing for a teenage princess with no significant military or political experience to positively change the course of a war; but this is anime. Convincingly or not, I think Stella may well change the course of the war with a small but significant act, or an unexpected one. Alternatively, we can take the 'plot' to be not 'the course of the war', but 'the fate of the world', which by nature everyone in the world determines. The writers could legitimately show that the world's fate is determined by humble actors as well as high, by explicitly paralleling Yuki's efforts to end the war with Stella's efforts to protect her friends. That parallel would give Stella's actions plot significance, even if she does nothing to end the war. If the writers do neither of these things, or something like them, they probably have messed up.

Eine is the Empire field commander? Yuki and Stella are very different in rank, but face the same challenge, as orphans, of their role and situation crushing the 'seed' of their innocent hopes. The gap in rank is necessary for the message that everyone can overcome their own situation and break free; and the childlike, innocent hope that Yuki and Stella share seems likely (in this kind of anime) to be the factor that resolves the plot. Not the conventional strength and experience of Eine.

As well as a smaller difference in rank from Yuki, Eine has practical power that neither Yuki or Stella have, but can do nothing with it to resolve the plot because she is trapped in her role as a commander, conducting the war rather than ending it. She has decent ideas, and some doubts about the new Chars, but she's going to follow orders to keep her job unless Yuki or Stella inspire her to do otherwise. All the 'adult' characters such as Izana, have certainly been shown as brave and intelligent, but if their practical strength was going to bring world peace, there was no need to have a Princess Classic heroine. Eine could have been a Roy Mustang if she acted on her doubts, but in that case her fitting co-protagonist would be Edward Elric, not Yuki Soleil.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

If the writers do neither of these things, or something like them, they probably have messed up.

I think they did mess up. Of course we have to wait and see, but I'm not optimistic.

Eine is the Empire field commander? Yuki and Stella are very different in rank, but face the same challenge, as orphans, of their role and situation crushing the 'seed' of their innocent hopes.

That emotional budget could have been given to Eine. Or they could have had Stella in Eine's position as a commander. Either way would have worked out just fine.

The gap in rank is necessary for the message that everyone can overcome their own situation and break free

That's something you can show with side characters.

As well as a smaller difference in rank from Yuki, Eine has practical power that neither Yuki or Stella have, but can do nothing with it to resolve the plot because she is trapped in her role as a commander, conducting the war rather than ending it. She has decent ideas, and some doubts about the new Chars, but she's going to follow orders to keep her job unless Yuki or Stella inspire her to do otherwise.

Stella can't inspire her because she's just a lowly soldier. They will never even meet each other. But Yuuki could, and that's why Eine could be an effective counterpart to Yuuki. Yuuki has the heart and Eine has the means. Put both together and you can resolve the plot. Stella doesn't even fit in the puzzle.

[Ghostfriendly]

Eine's 'means' are conventional military strength, which isn't going to resolve the plot in a series where the protagonists are distinguished by their hearts and all the military force deployed so far has resolved nothing at all. If the writers want to convey the reasonable moral that lasting peace is not achieved by military force, but a change in heart, having the plot resolved by a woman with a big army would run counter to that. Eine isn't unsympathetic, but she seems very practical, and to have no sympathy with the Kingdom's princess whatsoever; she's very much the antagonist. Stella has far less military strength than Eine commands, but she's on the same wavelength as Yuki, while Eine seems deaf to her. If Stella has to fight to resolve the plot, then it isn't always wrong to fight; but she'll be depending on her personal resolution, not national pride or a big army. David makes a better protagonist than Goliath.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

It seems you feel that it would be unconvincing for a single low-ranked soldier like Stella to change the course of a war. It may well be, but I think it's at least equally unconvincing for a teenage princess with no significant military or political experience to positively change the course of a war; but this is anime. Convincingly or not, I think Stella may well change the course of the war with a small but significant act, or an unexpected one. Alternatively, we can take the 'plot' to be not 'the course of the war', but 'the fate of the world', which by nature everyone in the world determines. The writers could legitimately show that the world's fate is determined by humble actors as well as high, by explicitly paralleling Yuki's efforts to end the war with Stella's efforts to protect her friends. That parallel would give Stella's actions plot significance, even if she does nothing to end the war. If the writers do neither of these things, or something like them, they probably have messed up.

Yuki is not even a teen, just 12. And she's actually doing good job, if they always fight like how Harold wants.. they would have run out of soldiers soon enough. The only major loss 2 months after they escaped the castle is their forces getting ambushed once this episode, because the enemy already anticipated the tactics - which the princess now has to change her moves to adapt. They have been losing ground continuously when the grown ups were in charge, now with the princess in the strategy planning they are fighting back. I think Harold's judgment is being clouded, since he hates the empire for death of his wife.

[Ghostfriendly]

With asymmetric warfare you avoid major defeats or major victories. Fair enough for Yuki to be stepping up and doing something, but the anime hasn't convincingly presented her as having the training, talent or personality to successfully command an army. If the plot resolves by princess Asseylum transforming spontaneously into Lelouch Vi Britannia, that will be the daftest idea for the ending yet.

[Liddo-kun]

Exploding the ground during the defense of the capital is almost "geass" like level of thinking. Well, and just a personal opinion.. I'm liking this more than geass, because it's a little more toned down and not strategic power wanks done over and over by one man.

I'm curious how the writers will end this. Stella and Yuuki still not meet. Only 4 episodes left.

[Ghostfriendly]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Exploding the ground during the defense of the capital is almost "geass" like level of thinking. Well, and just a personal opinion.. I'm liking this more than geass, because it's a little more toned down and not strategic power wanks done over and over by one man.

I'm curious how the writers will end this. Stella and Yuuki still not meet. Only 4 episodes left.

I think I mentioned the collapsing battlefield was a fearful cliche. Code Geass wasn't perfect, but Lelouch had the powers and personality to convincingly 'set the murderous Machiavel to school' if any one man did, even if his plans weren't always entirely realistic.

I'd like Stella and the Princess to meet, but possibly they will end up with parallel stories.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

I think I mentioned the collapsing battlefield was a fearful cliche. Code Geass wasn't perfect, but Lelouch had the powers and personality to convincingly 'set the murderous Machiavel to school' if any one man did, even if his plans weren't always entirely realistic.

I'd like Stella and the Princess to meet, but possibly they will end up with parallel stories.

As much as I like to continue the geass discussion. It will be just a debate of type of show preferences. So let's end that here.

Hmm, a parallel storyline is possible too.

On another thing. Just a theory, I think the twins would make the assassination attempt on Eine next episode. Funny, if they somehow end up capturing her instead of killing her.

[Lukes YGO & WS on YT]

Spoiler for Episode 8 Comments/Feedback:

I like how Yuki is pretty good at certain strategies and tactical decision but she doesn't have the heart to make the most important decisions though.

Izana went down as an absolute legend, whatever he sent will definitely turn the tide of war.