Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Sink?

Redshirt ships filled with nonames for raging motivation?
That's indeed possible, but it'll sure suck.

Do they really need that many ships to nuke the Cradle? And it'd be really strange if they don't have other weaponry

If that's indeed the case, your Niddhogg will have the entire TSAB screaming, "Imba! Imba! Imba!"(Not like it doesn't already.)

But it would be cool if the Cradle could shrug of an Arc shot.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Sink?

Do they really need that many ships to nuke the Cradle? And it'd be really strange if they don't have other weaponry

From the Asura, I strongly suspect that demolition gun is the only weapon they have.

I'm supporting the sink route. Seven Arcs worked so hard to make the TASB look utterly dumb. Might as well finish it...

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Well, since most of the other matters have been discussed, I wonder what the fleet would do once they (finally) arrive.

Provided the Cradle's threat level and what have been shown to be the armaments of ships, (just the Arc so far) will they nuke it? Seems to be feasible enough if they can minimize the damage to just that area. But seeing as it is Nanoha, most likely the characters would be the one to fix things. But still, I sure hope they at least do something with that ginormous fleet.

Warp in just as the Cradle fires its parting shot, then the entire fleet Shield Walls the shot off without a scratch. I'd even throw in some random redshirt yelling "Salamis avenged!!!", if anyone here is old enough to catch the joke.

Come on, this is Nanoha, where most conventions have been turned on its head, military doctrine included. It won't be too surprising if the Redshirts aren't squishy all of a sudden.

[Nightengale]

Wasn't Leone on one of those ships?

Maybe he could show us how legendary he really is...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kha

Come on, this is Nanoha, where most conventions have been turned on its head, military doctrine included. It won't be too surprising if the Redshirts aren't squishy all of a sudden.

You know what's worse than the fleet being destroyed?

The fleet arriving late .

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Kha

Warp in just as the Cradle fires its parting shot, then the entire fleet Shield Walls the shot off without a scratch. I'd even throw in some random redshirt yelling "Salamis avenged!!!", if anyone here is old enough to catch the joke.

Come on, this is Nanoha, where most conventions have been turned on its head, military doctrine included. It won't be too surprising if the Redshirts aren't squishy all of a sudden.

Well, the redshirts proved to be useful this episode, seeing as there's still quite many of them, and they even blasted an entrance on the Cradle's outer wall

And Salamis Avenged indeed

XV Captain: This ain't no Salamis Boy! No Salamis!!

[felix]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You know what's worse than the fleet being destroyed?

The fleet getting scuttled. (by Chrono)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cats

The fleet getting scuttled. (by Chrono)

What are you talking about? That's a GOOD thing !

In fact, I've already got a working plan in mind that he could use...

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Cats

The fleet getting scuttled. (by Chrono)

Wrong. Chrono getting outstaged, even when in relations to the fleet, it's supposed to be his Super Chrono Time.

I for one can't help but continually associate Leone and moon with Dragon Ball, Roshi and Kamehameha to be precise.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Wrong. Chrono getting outstaged, even when in relations to the fleet, it's supposed to be his Super Chrono Time.

No no, you got it wrong "Super Chrono Time" doesn't mean that he gets some action... In fact he still gets shaft during then

It's all about the speech! The moral speech that goes along with it! First it's Precia, then Graham... So will it be Regius or Jail this time around ?

(Personally, Jail has my vote... >.>)

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV

Not to mention that Scag has a bunch of additional girls-in-tubes. There's no telling how close they are to being put into service, as it were...

Planning on what ifs to avoid how to lose is the perfect way to go about actually losing. If Jail has as many more operational as your surmising than it isn't worth worrying about because in that situation they've already lost.

You have to base your plans on your best estimation of the enemy situation and intent. Attacking is actually one of the best ways of clearing up an uncertain situation. They know that Jail has at least thirteen numbers. If there are only a few additional numbers they don't know about in reserve, then there's an even greater need to concentrate their forces.

Characterizing RF6 as going on the offensive? Please. Jail's forces are the ones pushing the tempo. The timing of the attacks are up to him - the entire reason they can't all just go pile on his base is because he's sent out the Cradle, the drone armada, the Numbers. Sure, they're sending Fate to his base, but that's like trying to say RAF bombing raids on Germany during the Battle of Britain meant they were on the offensive. Their strategy is -entirely- based around interception at this point.

That analogy would work if rather than launching retaliatory bombing raids on German cities, the RAF had instead decapitated the entire German high command system and then destroyed all of the German military bases simultaneously. Attacking decisively at an unexpected point is the perfect way of seizing back the initiative.

I'm not trying to claim that Hayate's the next Rommel or that her tactics are relatively good. It's just that she's caught in a nasty dilemma - she has three major crises happening simultaneously, and she has to respond to each of them. It's easy to say that she doesn't have the personnel and the firepower to deal with them divided up, sure. But she's got to anyway. You can say that she really ought to write off some collateral damage, but that's not something she can do. More importantly, that's not something she could possibly order Nanoha and Fate to do. I mean, come on. The reason Fate is alive is because Nanoha specifically ignored an order to abandon her. The reason Hayate is alive is because Fate and Nanoha specifically ignored an order to abandon her (granted, more of a suggestion in that case.) The idea that ANY of the three of them would consider their own survival more important than rescuing somebody? (Might cause angst, sure. Might be a bad idea, sure. But this... is... NANOHA~)

If she can't get her subordinates to take reasonable orders then she's a terrible leader. It doesn't reflect any better on Fate or Nanoha.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The fleet arriving late

Unless Nanoha or Vita can at least slow down the ship for a few minutes, the fleet's definitely going to be late. That was stated in ep 20.
Personally, I'm hoping to see the Cradle's Main Weapon firing once and its defenses holding off the fleet until Nanoha or Vita disable them. Wouldn't be as impressive otherwise.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

No no, you got it wrong "Super Chrono Time" doesn't mean that he gets some action... In fact he still gets shaft during then

It's all about the speech! The moral speech that goes along with it! First it's Precia, then Graham... So will it be Regius or Jail this time around ?

(Personally, Jail has my vote... >.>)

Seems unlikely, unless Fate loses since I can't see her taking more than 3 hours. If it's going to be Jail, it'll most likely be post-battle. Fate's a little trippy since she's against the type of criminal she hates the most, but I presume she'll be professional and not slash to kill unless left with no options.

And to be honest, I'd rather Chrono's moral speeches of S1 get shot back in the face instead. Even more so if Zest really did die and came back the same person. And Al-Hazard. :3

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Unless Nanoha or Vita can at least slow down the ship for a few minutes, the fleet's definitely going to be late. That was stated in ep 20.
Personally, I'm hoping to see the Cradle's Main Weapon firing once and its defenses holding off the fleet until Nanoha or Vita disable them. Wouldn't be as impressive otherwise.

Undoubtedly, the time doesn't match at the current pace, 3 hours being the fleet's arrival time and under 3 hours being the peak point for full powered Cradle, but was it mentioned how long it would actually take specifically for the Cradle to reach that point?

While Hayate clearly said that from the outside, they can't really do anything against the gigantically large Cradle even with numbers, since it's time specific, I wonder why they can't target the rear flight boosters or something?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Unless Nanoha or Vita can at least slow down the ship for a few minutes, the fleet's definitely going to be late. That was stated in ep 20.

No no, as in "Show's over, pack it up people!" kind of late

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Personally, I'm hoping to see the Cradle's Main Weapon firing once and its defenses holding off the fleet until Nanoha or Vita disable them. Wouldn't be as impressive otherwise.

Does it have any defenses to begin with? Or does it rely on the drones?

(Yes, haven't watched yet.)

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Does it have any defenses to begin with? Or does it rely on the drones?

(Yes, haven't watched yet.)

It seemed to be firing some lasers ... Also I wonder if it has some kind of energy/magical shields against heavy beamspam, because nothing prevented the heroes from boarding it (though maybe it was down to let the drones out).

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

No no, as in "Show's over, pack it up people!"
kind of late

~~~

Does it have any defenses to begin with? Or does it rely on the drones?

(Yes, haven't watched yet.)

Doesn't completely fit with the prophecy on the sinking ships then...unless it refers to Athra alone.

~~~

It has Gottfried-ish cannons. And its not like its general outer walls are fragile, since Hayate did remark that from the outside, it's not something that can be best even with huge numbers, nor did Nanoha and co need to rely on a break-team to create an opening inside the Cradle, most likely from a weaker point, like the drone pods or something.

Inside has extra concentrated AMF and drones.

[An Hero in Disguise]

Why couldn't the heroes go straight for the rear engines is a mystery though. I don't think the reactor room shall be lightly armored and/or have less defenders.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Why couldn't the heroes go straight for the rear engines is a mystery though. I don't think the reactor room shall be lightly armored and/or have less defenders.

Maybe the fusion shields are harder than we expect, especially when stacked with AMF? Also, the engine draft might be strong enough to blow spells off course?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Seems unlikely, unless Fate loses since I can't see her taking more than 3 hours. If it's going to be Jail, it'll most likely be post-battle. Fate's a little trippy since she's against the type of criminal she hates the most, but I presume she'll be professional and not slash to kill unless left with no options.

The man is full of surprises remember?

Unlimited Desires Works

Originally Posted by Nightengale

And to be honest, I'd rather Chrono's moral speeches of S1 get shot back in the face instead. Even more so if Zest really did die and came back the same person. And Al-Hazard. :3

Well not exactly. We can't be sure if it's the same body, or whether a not his memories have been altered (Have to wait till he confronts Regius...), AND he doesn't have long to live.

Even when putting aside all that, it's as much as a success as Fate was, I don't see any difference this time.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Undoubtedly, the time doesn't match at the current pace, 3 hours being the fleet's arrival time and under 3 hours being the peak point for full powered Cradle, but was it mentioned how long it would actually take specifically for the Cradle to reach that point?

While Hayate clearly said that from the outside, they can't really do anything against the gigantically large Cradle even with numbers, since it's time specific, I wonder why they can't target the rear flight boosters or something?

Btw, did they mention where the fleet is coming from?

[LoweGear]

Have we actually ever seen visible external engines though? The Cradle doesn't look like it has any