[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Jan-Poo]

Anyway, it's time to elaborate a theory about Beatrice's existence.

Spoiler for ep5:

After reading Ep4 regarding Battler's sin I elaborated this theory:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3132

And little before Ep5 I narrowed down the possible Beatrice to three persons:

http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=63810

Now after Ep5 I think I can place the various pieces together.

My theory that Battler's sin is a promise he made 6 years before and he broke seems to be confirmed by the song "yakusoku" that plays right when Battler finds the truth. I'd like to see the lyrics but I think I heard "yakosoku wo shinji yabureru".

There is also the very last sentences that brought Battler to the answer. Beatrice is waiting at the summit of purgatory. Waiting. And then he realizes and screams "baka yaroo!!!".

I think I can elaborate further now. This person 6 year before fell in love with Battler, and Battler made a promise. But that promise was never kept because he simply forgot about it. His mother died he raged against Rudolf.

"His sin has something to do with him forfeiting the ushiromiya name and never attending the family meeting anymore, but it doesn't have anything to do with his close relatives, it has something to do with Rokkenjima."

For this person Battler was probably her first love. I don't know the details but Battler must have made a sort of promise, and that person waited, waited, waited. Until1986. The fulfillment of a promise is the paradise, the betrayal is hell, but this person always lived in-between in the purgatory for the past six years.

Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who is still there even though she was supposed to have left long ago? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?

between my initial candidates: Jessica, Kanon and Shannon, the one that fits the role the most is: Shannon.

She isn't supposed to be still working as a servant, but she's still there. Money? She has no interest in that. However as george noticed, she must have saved a lot of money.

Now, the shocking theory I have.... Shannon doesn't love George.
Or maybe she's confused, anyway the return of Battler caused her to get in an even worse confusion. Receiving a marriage proposal was even worse.
Ryukishi said that in the manga there was a heavy hint. In the manga the mariage proposal scene is quite interesting.
When George questions Shannon about why she doesn't leave the ushiromiya mansion, Shannon gives a vague answer and she makes a sad face.
Hints: it is true that for Shannon to marry George was a lot of trouble, but maybe that wasn't why she was troubled. In the anime and the manga it is even more evident. Shannon wasn't smiling, wasn't happy, she was troubled.

Shannon already solved the riddle and found the gold. However that's irrelevant for her, she actually doesn't know what to do with it. She is aware that Krauss would never accept her as new head of the family and certainly neither would Natsuhi or Eva. She can't take away all that gold from the island, so realistically that gold to her has no value.

However I can't find a good reason for her to kill everyone, but it isn't necessary that Beatrice=Killer.

[sword5880]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Anyway, it's time to elaborate a theory about Beatrice's existence.

Spoiler for ep5:

After reading Ep4 regarding Battler's sin I elaborated this theory:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3132

And little before Ep5 I narrowed down the possible Beatrice to three persons:

http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=63810

Now after Ep5 I think I can place the various pieces together.

My theory that Battler's sin is a promise he made 6 years before and he broke seems to be confirmed by the song "yakusoku" that plays right when Battler finds the truth. I'd like to see the lyrics but I think I heard "yakosoku wo shinji yabureru".

There is also the very last sentences that brought Battler to the answer. Beatrice is waiting at the summit of purgatory. Waiting. And then he realizes and screams "baka yaroo!!!".

I think I can elaborate further now. This person 6 year before fell in love with Battler, and Battler made a promise. But that promise was never kept because he simply forgot about it. His mother died he raged against Rudolf.

"His sin has something to do with him forfeiting the ushiromiya name and never attending the family meeting anymore, but it doesn't have anything to do with his close relatives, it has something to do with Rokkenjima."

For this person Battler was probably her first love. I don't know the details but Battler must have made a sort of promise, and that person waited, waited, waited. Until1986. The fulfillment of a promise is the paradise, the betrayal is hell, but this person always lived in-between in the purgatory for the past six years.

Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who is still there even though she was supposed to have left long ago? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?

between my initial candidates: Jessica, Kanon and Shannon, the one that fits the role the most is: Shannon.

She isn't supposed to be still working as a servant, but she's still there. Money? She has no interest in that. However as george noticed, she must have saved a lot of money.

Now, the shocking theory I have.... Shannon doesn't love George.
Or maybe she's confused, anyway the return of Battler caused her to get in an even worse confusion. Receiving a marriage proposal was even worse.
Ryukishi said that in the manga there was a heavy hint. In the manga the mariage proposal scene is quite interesting.
When George questions Shannon about why she doesn't leave the ushiromiya mansion, Shannon gives a vague answer and she makes a sad face.
Hints: it is true that for Shannon to marry George was a lot of trouble, but maybe that wasn't why she was troubled. In the anime and the manga it is even more evident. Shannon wasn't smiling, wasn't happy, she was troubled.

Shannon already solved the riddle and found the gold. However that's irrelevant for her, she actually doesn't know what to do with it. She is aware that Krauss would never accept her as new head of the family and certainly neither would Natsuhi or Eva. She can't take away all that gold from the island, so realistically that gold to her has no value.

However I can't find a good reason for her to kill everyone, but it isn't necessary that Beatrice=Killer.

Nice, yeah that can also make sense, but as i remember there was also a scene where Shannon was happy when she got the ring from George, did i remember wrong? and if shannon really is first love from six year ago then in the end it will be a fight between Battler and George ^ ^, But

Spoiler for hmm:

there was also a time when shannon was killed in first twlight[ep1] and second twlight[ep2] in first twlight, it is possible because shannon face was in "not lookable sight" and i remember Beato said that they all have alibis

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Shannon doesn't love George.

This theory is supported by Shannon's lack of reaction to George's death in episode 5. Her priority was to continue to lie about Kinzo. There definately is something wrong with her.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Shannon already solved the riddle and found the gold. However that's irrelevant for her, she actually doesn't know what to do with it. She is aware that Krauss would never accept her as new head of the family and certainly neither would Natsuhi or Eva. She can't take away all that gold from the island, so realistically that gold to her has no value.

However I can't find a good reason for her to kill everyone, but it isn't necessary that Beatrice=Killer.

-Shannon and Kanon are the only ones that can "see" Beatrice.
-As shown in episode 1, the servants knew about Beatrice's "roulette" prior to any murders.
-Episode 5 shows that she can play innocent and hide the truth well.

It won't be any kind shock to me to find out she was the murderer or accomplice for some of the twilights.

If she's already found the gold then mabye her plan is to play along with whoever is conducting Beatrice's roulette and finish off the survivors except Battler if he's the one she's in love with.

[ameskitty]

Originally Posted by Ssol

This theory is supported by Shannon's lack of reaction to George's death in episode 5. Her priority was to continue to lie about Kinzo. There definately is something wrong with her.

Spoiler for ep 5:

Hmm, that definitely struck me as odd for both Shannon and Kanon. Well, I think I'll exclude Kanon from this discussion, because Kanon at least seemed a tiny bit more broody than normal (that one comment he makes in the Natsuhi motive scene just screamed emo ) and the one time the theory of the witch was mentioned he got a little rage-y. He doesn't normally get rage-y at Beatrice unless somebody he cares about is/was directly targeted (especially in EP4 - he just kind of stands around watching Kinzo kill people )

Shannon, on the other hand, showed nothing. At all. Now that I think about it, even though Shannon is a lot calmer and more mature than Kanon, that's quite a bit suspicious.

In fact, I'm starting to see how you could craft a twisted theory that Shannon <3 George is 100% George's fantasy and something Shannon faked for Jessica and/or Kanon's benefit.

On the other hand, you also have to keep in mind that both of them believe that if they survive and reach the Golden Land, they'll be able to revive their loved ones and live happily ever after. Thus, as always, they suck in their feelings and hold out hope for the endgame. Unfortunately, by the gameboard rules we're forbidden to see the aftermath where they realize "oh crap, there isn't going to be a Golden Land this time". Honestly I think if we were allowed to see that scene both of them would be crying quite a lot (unless that Shannon </3 George theory really is true...or the game was actually stopped midway and all of them end up dying anyways XD).

Also, remember that neither of them got the chance to see George or Jessica's dead bodies, which is also something (along with stalker-son and the whole headship thing, of course) that kept Natsuhi from really crying until both Jessica and Krauss's deaths were confirmed in red at the trial.

[Kaiba]

@ Jan-Poo: I like this theory a lot, though I guess I'm a little annoyed with myself because even though I had also concluded that the two weren't in love, I didn't pursue it nearly as heavily as you have - kudos to you. I would argue that if the two aren't in love furthermore, then this strengthens to a significant idea of George being the general mastermind, and I'm starting to create one based off yours which targets George, Shannon, and Genji for now, with possibly Kyrie and Nanjo as independent killers.

[Umineko_neko]

@ Jan-Poo: What with the beginning of episode 3? "Beatrice" is granddaughter of Kinzo and is seen as such by servants (?) (well, by Kumasawa at least). Of course Shannon with her past in the orphanage isn't a problem and she can be the real granddaughter. In that way she could have even been “recognized” by the adults in the chapel.

However if Shannon's alter ego is Gaap, then she cannot be "Beatrice"...

Edit:

Actually until now my answer to the questions: “Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?” was - Jessica. Because of the hair color and „create your other self” talk. Now I wonder if maybe you are right...

[Renall]

I think there are people who are killers, people who may become killers but prefer not to be, and people who aren't killers but are doing something.

We don't know who is doing the magic circles and stakings, or dressing as Beatrice. For all we know, these people are completely independent of the killers. Or at least they might be in some episodes and not others. Some people, like Rosa, seem unstable and might be motivated to kill, but generally wouldn't get pushed that far. And there could be someone who is killing with a very methodical and murderous attitude and their actions are in no way related to any of the Beatrice mythos.

Still, looking for a mastermind seems critical. It's got to be one or more people we know. People like George or Kyrie are popular but of course it's hard to say for sure. One thing that's obvious is that the mastermind or masterminds do not have to be killers themselves. For instance, in ep1 we're told that Nanjo/Genji/Kumasawa "did not commit murder." Of course, if someone (let's pick a silly choice like Kumasawa) orchestrated the killings but didn't carry them out, that would probably fit with the red. That would also allow the person to have an alibi that conceals motive. For instance, Kumasawa might be angry about something, but she has Kanon kill; Kanon's motive might not be important vs. the mastermind's motive, but since the mastermind has been hanging out with Battler for multiple killings, they've been previously removed from suspicion (which means no one has focused on their motives).

Of course that's just a silly example. Gohda and Kumasawa surely aren't masterminds... or are they?

[AncientSpark]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Spoiler for ep5:

After reading Ep4 regarding Battler's sin I elaborated this theory:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3132

And little before Ep5 I narrowed down the possible Beatrice to three persons:

http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=63810

Now after Ep5 I think I can place the various pieces together.

My theory that Battler's sin is a promise he made 6 years before and he broke seems to be confirmed by the song "yakusoku" that plays right when Battler finds the truth. I'd like to see the lyrics but I think I heard "yakosoku wo shinji yabureru".

There is also the very last sentences that brought Battler to the answer. Beatrice is waiting at the summit of purgatory. Waiting. And then he realizes and screams "baka yaroo!!!".

I think I can elaborate further now. This person 6 year before fell in love with Battler, and Battler made a promise. But that promise was never kept because he simply forgot about it. His mother died he raged against Rudolf.

"His sin has something to do with him forfeiting the ushiromiya name and never attending the family meeting anymore, but it doesn't have anything to do with his close relatives, it has something to do with Rokkenjima."

For this person Battler was probably her first love. I don't know the details but Battler must have made a sort of promise, and that person waited, waited, waited. Until1986. The fulfillment of a promise is the paradise, the betrayal is hell, but this person always lived in-between in the purgatory for the past six years.

Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who is still there even though she was supposed to have left long ago? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?

between my initial candidates: Jessica, Kanon and Shannon, the one that fits the role the most is: Shannon.

She isn't supposed to be still working as a servant, but she's still there. Money? She has no interest in that. However as george noticed, she must have saved a lot of money.

Now, the shocking theory I have.... Shannon doesn't love George.
Or maybe she's confused, anyway the return of Battler caused her to get in an even worse confusion. Receiving a marriage proposal was even worse.
Ryukishi said that in the manga there was a heavy hint. In the manga the mariage proposal scene is quite interesting.
When George questions Shannon about why she doesn't leave the ushiromiya mansion, Shannon gives a vague answer and she makes a sad face.
Hints: it is true that for Shannon to marry George was a lot of trouble, but maybe that wasn't why she was troubled. In the anime and the manga it is even more evident. Shannon wasn't smiling, wasn't happy, she was troubled.

Shannon already solved the riddle and found the gold. However that's irrelevant for her, she actually doesn't know what to do with it. She is aware that Krauss would never accept her as new head of the family and certainly neither would Natsuhi or Eva. She can't take away all that gold from the island, so realistically that gold to her has no value.

However I can't find a good reason for her to kill everyone, but it isn't necessary that Beatrice=Killer.

I think I might have a motive for Shannon killing everyone else, but there's no proof for this one. It's just a guess.

Spoiler for Possible Motive, spoilers for episode 5:

Lets assume for a second that the secret of Battler's birth is not that he's Natsuhi's child, like what many fan theories assume. Lets assume, instead, that the secret of Battler's birth is something else and is something that would be incredibly traumatizing.

Who would know this secret? Rudolph obviously knows, but we don't know who else in the family, servants included, know. It is possible that no one else knows, but it is also possible that everyone knows (with the exception of both Battler and Kyrie, who is obviously surprised by Rudolph's frankness).

Of course, if Shannon came across this secret (lets say recently, so that she has a reason to kill during the game instead of earlier), she would have no idea amongst who the family knew this secret, as well. Furthermore, anyone in the family might also decide to tell Battler. Thus, Shannon kills everyone to prevent them from spilling the secret of Battler's birth.

Shannon's motive is to protect the secret of Battler's birth from Battler, whom she still loves, deep in her heart.

Of course, this doesn't exactly match up. Most notably, she doesn't attempt to kill everyone in Episode 5. Perhaps, during the course of the murders, she finds out during Rudolph's dying breath that no one knows Battler's birth besides him. In that case, Shannon lost her reason to continue with the murders.

The other reason why this doesn't match up is because it doesn't match up with the sin. Beatrice says pretty specifically "Because of your sin, people die." This pretty much suggests that Battler's sin highly matches up with the motive for murder, but the motive presented here is not exactly related to a possible love denial. For example, if Battler had instead accepted Shannon's proposal, the motive would have still been strong enough to kill everyone else. The only reason I can think of to counter this is that Battler effectively shattered Shannon's sanity with his denial, but this seems like a weak argument, as an insane person probably wouldn't have protective instincts.

Originally Posted by Renall

Of course that's just a silly example. Gohda and Kumasawa surely aren't masterminds... or are they?

I'm of the mind that Gohda and Kumasawa had to have been at least related to the murders in Episode 4, because thinking that Kinzo is a magician and that he summoned demons from nowhere is pretty stupid outside of drugs and the like, which is equally stupid. It had to have been consciously fabricated by them. But I digress...

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Anyway, it's time to elaborate a theory about Beatrice's existence.

Spoiler for ep5:

After reading Ep4 regarding Battler's sin I elaborated this theory:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3132

And little before Ep5 I narrowed down the possible Beatrice to three persons:

http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=63810

Now after Ep5 I think I can place the various pieces together.

My theory that Battler's sin is a promise he made 6 years before and he broke seems to be confirmed by the song "yakusoku" that plays right when Battler finds the truth. I'd like to see the lyrics but I think I heard "yakosoku wo shinji yabureru".

There is also the very last sentences that brought Battler to the answer. Beatrice is waiting at the summit of purgatory. Waiting. And then he realizes and screams "baka yaroo!!!".

I think I can elaborate further now. This person 6 year before fell in love with Battler, and Battler made a promise. But that promise was never kept because he simply forgot about it. His mother died he raged against Rudolf.

"His sin has something to do with him forfeiting the ushiromiya name and never attending the family meeting anymore, but it doesn't have anything to do with his close relatives, it has something to do with Rokkenjima."

For this person Battler was probably her first love. I don't know the details but Battler must have made a sort of promise, and that person waited, waited, waited. Until1986. The fulfillment of a promise is the paradise, the betrayal is hell, but this person always lived in-between in the purgatory for the past six years.

Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who is still there even though she was supposed to have left long ago? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?

between my initial candidates: Jessica, Kanon and Shannon, the one that fits the role the most is: Shannon.

She isn't supposed to be still working as a servant, but she's still there. Money? She has no interest in that. However as george noticed, she must have saved a lot of money.

Now, the shocking theory I have.... Shannon doesn't love George.
Or maybe she's confused, anyway the return of Battler caused her to get in an even worse confusion. Receiving a marriage proposal was even worse.
Ryukishi said that in the manga there was a heavy hint. In the manga the mariage proposal scene is quite interesting.
When George questions Shannon about why she doesn't leave the ushiromiya mansion, Shannon gives a vague answer and she makes a sad face.
Hints: it is true that for Shannon to marry George was a lot of trouble, but maybe that wasn't why she was troubled. In the anime and the manga it is even more evident. Shannon wasn't smiling, wasn't happy, she was troubled.

Shannon already solved the riddle and found the gold. However that's irrelevant for her, she actually doesn't know what to do with it. She is aware that Krauss would never accept her as new head of the family and certainly neither would Natsuhi or Eva. She can't take away all that gold from the island, so realistically that gold to her has no value.

However I can't find a good reason for her to kill everyone, but it isn't necessary that Beatrice=Killer.

If I remember, there's an EP where Battler said, nonchalantly, that Shannon was his first love or something like that. If it had so little importance to him, no wonder he forgot completely


But,
I'm still of the opinion that Beatrice represent's something abstract (like law, disaster, grudge, bad blood)

Here are my impressions:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=402
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=403
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=405

I'm pretty much grounded on the theory Rias mentioned about 'everybody against Krauss'.

I don't know... but maybe I'm just trying to link Beatrice with the ideas behind Lambda-delta and Bernkastel.

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for episode5:

Originally Posted by Umineko_neko

@ Jan-Poo: What with the beginning of episode 3? "Beatrice" is granddaughter of Kinzo and is seen as such by servants (?) (well, by Kumasawa at least). Of course Shannon with her past in the orphanage isn't a problem and she can be the real granddaughter. In that way she could have even been “recognized” by the adults in the chapel.

However if Shannon's alter ego is Gaap, then she cannot be "Beatrice"...

Edit:

Actually until now my answer to the questions: “Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?” was - Jessica. Because of the hair color and „create your other self” talk. Now I wonder if maybe you are right...

Actually my bringing up Shannon as the "Beatrice" it is kinda a gamble. Jessica was on my initial list because there is a mountain of hints that would lead me to believe she's Beatrice. And Kanon's past is shaded in mystery, you can't even be sure that he's actually a male, plus there's that "boku datte" in ep1 that has yet to be explained.

The reason I am chosing Shannon now is because of what Dlanor and Virgilia says. They talk about first love and specifically talk about a love relationship between grade schoolers or middle schooler, which incidentally is what Battler and Shannon were at the time. Yeah it isn't impossible that that kind of relationship can happen between cousins, but I hope that's not what Ryukishi has in mind XD

However there might be another explanation. In ep4 it seems that Beatrice isn't directly related to Battler's sin. So in this way you could think that Beatrice is Jessica, and she's doing all this for Shannon's sake. But Battler's reaction and thinking in ep5 make me think that Beatrice herself is the "baka yaroo" that waited for him all this time. Or actually Beatrice is a fake personality that born after some time, maybe around the time Shannon broke the mirror.

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

If I remember, there's an EP where Battler said, nonchalantly, that Shannon was his first love or something like that. If it had so little importance to him, no wonder he forgot completely


But,
I'm still of the opinion that Beatrice represent's something abstract (like law, disaster, grudge, bad blood)

Here are my impressions:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=402
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=403
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=405

I'm pretty much grounded on the theory Rias mentioned about 'everybody against Krauss'.

I don't know... but maybe I'm just trying to link Beatrice with the ideas behind Lambda-delta and Bernkastel.

Your impressions about Erika match exactly mine XD. I also thought she was definitely making fun of the readers by constantly saying that it was all an easy thing to understand. But in truth she's completely dumb and she didn't even get close to the solution of this mystery.

one thing

Also, it seemed that she solved the riddle way too easily. At least she gave us the hint that it has something to do with an Atlas (at EP3, people were speculating that the book Eva read could have been the bible...)

Ep3 clearly mentioned the atlas. All the speculations about other possible books were meaningless, I kept on telling this all the time.

The funny thing in the kakera scene in ep5 is that even though bern is explaining everything to Battler she is also concealing important hints. One of them was the mention of the atlas in ep3.
Butt the most important one is the "sea". Ryukishi skillfully avoided any mention of the sea from Eva, although in ep3 Eva mentioned it a lot.

For example the scene were rosa and Eva talk about the river was truncated.

Eva's sentence became "of course maybe there was no need for it to be sweetfish." but the truth is "of course maybe there was no need for it to be sweetfish, but when I heard that sweetfish are fish that go out into the sea, I was able to figure it out"

If Eva's reasonings are correct, how the hell is it possible that the very thing that made her "figure it out" the whole riddle is irrelevant?

Also Ryukishi completely omitted to show Eva's last thing she was reasoning about before she got the illumination and "rhythm changer" started to play. And guess what? It is the sea again.

There is another "lie" in ep5. That scene of "the pieces that suddenly all go in place" is shown to be happened after Eva understood what the "village" is. This is false. It happened when Eva understood what the "shore" is.

Ryukishi is such a troll.

anyway your battle royale theory can fit with my theory because Beatrice isn't necessarily the culprit. And your theory still needs to explain who is the Beatrice that wrote on Maria's diary, who wrote the message in the bottles and such.
].

[Marina2]

I want to ask something about Asumu.....

Is there anywhere in the game tell that how old is Battler when Asumu died?

[Volcanic]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I want to ask something about Asumu.....

Is there anywhere in the game tell that how old is Battler when Asumu died?

Twelve Years Old. Six Years Ago.

...I wanna know more about Asumu...

[Evy]

Can someone restate what time it was when they heard the knock on the door and found the letter, and when Natsuhi got the call from the mysterious man?

[Jan-Poo]

well... in theory it was 24:00 o clock. That is highlighted by the fact you can hear the clock's chime.

[Evy]

Hmm. Here's my theory. Of course, it most likely contains holes, so take it with a grain of salt.

Spoiler for Just in case:

A lot of people have been bringing up the possibility of Kanon or Shannon being the "mysterious man" calling Natsuhi. Shannon might be old enough to have been the baby of 19 years ago but she's the wrong gender (assuming the baby was established as being male), though she could make her voice slightly deeper to sound like a young man. Kanon's voice would fit, but he's too young to be the mysterious man.

PLUS. They are both with the adults and Battler when the door was knocked on - at the same time Natsuhi received the call. It's physically impossible for either of them to have made the call. The possibility of the call being a pre-made recording sounds extremely farfetched because it's impossible to completely and correctly predict what someone would say, especially over the phone.

Now here's where I'm unsure because it concerns Erika and her whereabouts. By that time she has gone back to the guest house, right? But I don't remember if she was constantly in Nanjo and Gohda's company since then, but I'll put this down anyway.

I saw a screenshot (I don't have it on hand) of Bernkastel saying to Erika: "... When you quit being a witch, you should become a voice actress."

Didn't the mystery man say he arrived on the island with Erika?

I didn't make the connection right away, but for a short while I've been thinking about it and at first glance it seems to make sense. Perhaps Erika is posing as a young man and making odd calls to Natsuhi to threaten her - perhaps the baby 19 years ago did die, and she's just pretending he's still alive so she can exact some sort of revenge. She's too young to be the baby itself. Perhaps she's a relative of the servant who heard the story from her family later, so she's set out to torment Natsuhi for shits and giggles because, hey, Erika seems to look at others' suffering that way.

And besides, how could she have predicted that a murder would happen, in which exact room, at what exact time, and where did she get that tape from?

The big hole in this theory, however, is the next call to Natsuhi after Krauss is taken hostage. I don't know how a little girl like Erika could overpower and trap a full-grown man like Krauss whose power level is over 9000, at that!. Plus it seems to conflict with Erika's presence around the others at the time.

But then we can also count the fact that Natsuhi's delusional, but that's not as important.

Erika is said to be the detective. One of Knox's commandments say that the detective must not know of clues that aren't shown immediately to the reader - if that's the case, why aren't we seeing everything from Erika's point of view? She suddenly comes up and throws out some weird reasoning and somehow she figured out the riddle of the epitaph, but as far as I've seen the reader doesn't see what's going on in her head. We see things mostly from Battler's point of view, don't we?

Really, it's rather twisted, if you ask me.

[milkypink]

Originally Posted by Evy

Spoiler for Just in case:

I saw a screenshot (I don't have it on hand) of Bernkastel saying to Erika: "... When you quit being a witch, you should become a voice actress."

Spoiler for Not quite:

Unless I'm remembering this wrong, I believe Bern was talking to Lambda about the call - maybe hinting that it a) never happened or b) it doesn't apply to all games even if it did happen.
I don't believe it's ever implied that Erika is the one who was calling, or had anything to do with that aspect of the story.

[Jan-Poo]

Uhm between 24:00 and 1:00 Erika has been in the library with Nanjo, reading an talking about mystery novels. I don't remember if this was actually stated in red, but many others red truths are based on this premise.

But yeah if it wasn't for the Knox rule I'd say Erika is 100% culprit XD

Also about the 8th knox rule, it isn't exactly as the orginal. actually many rules in the game differ from the original thing.

The 8th rule only states that there must not be clues that were never revealed to the detective. The word "reader" in the umineko version of the 10 rules has been abolished.

EDIT for milypink post. Oh yeah lol, at first I was puzzled since I didn't remember that voice actress thing, then I remembered. It is Bern saying that to Lambda not Erika. Because in Lambda's story she is actually the one who makes the phone calls to Natsuhi, and she shows how she can change her voice in any way she desires.

[Evy]

Ahh, thought so. I knew I'd probably not get anywhere with that but I was like "Eh, wouldn't hurt to put this out" xD I haven't played the game because my moonspeak isn't superb, so there are a lot of things I might have gotten wrong because I've only been reading summaries and might be remembering things wrong.

At the very least it shows that it's highly unlikely for Kanon or Shannon to be responsible for the calls.

[Jan-Poo]

we have red truths that confirm the position of practically everyone except those in the guesthouse at that time. So if the phone call was actually done from a person who is on the island it can only be someone in the guesthouse. George is a good candidate, but Gohda too if he can change his voice. Gohda at that time was alone in the servant room of the guesthouse.

[Evy]

The mental image of Gohda speaking in the voice of a young man is, somehow, hilarious. Then again, it's Magical Gohda Chef.