2009-09-24, 10:36 | Link #2001 | ||||
The Insidious
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Immaterium
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2009-09-24, 10:40 | Link #2002 | |
Hina is my goddess
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If god isn't going to save me, why does he give me temptation and weakness and doubt if he knows i can't fight it without a strong sign? Freedom is not worth damnation if he gives me freedom to choose the wrong path and does nothing to help me onto the right one. Of course to clarify i am only speaking about the "You must believe in god and no other" rule he has. If i have harmed others or have been a general "bad" person all my life i don't expect him to save me, religious or not. |
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2009-09-24, 11:00 | Link #2004 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Humans are not the most influential beings on the planet nor are they the most important, to think otherwise is arrogance. Animals and nature there for our own existence? We ARE animals... What you're saying doesn't really make any sense to me. Also, if you do not eat a living thing you will die, this goes for every animal, so that is a moot point. Instead of respecting the existence of a questionable entity, why not respect the Earth for what it is? Stop thinking in an anthropocentric manner and embrace the whole spectrum of nature. Whether or not a god exists, it is a very remarkable thing. Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2009-09-24 at 11:12. |
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2009-09-24, 11:14 | Link #2005 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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In other words, if you see neither God himself nor other undeniable proof of God's existence (such as an unexplainable miracle in your case), yet you are still certain of his existence, that is only possible through faith. And that's why faith becomes more important, rather than less, by God choosing not to show a miracle. |
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2009-09-24, 11:23 | Link #2006 | |||||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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First of all, this is getting out of hand. I started discussing less-flamy topics but it still ended to this. We will definitely find no compromise if we're discussing very subjective issues. My last suggestion is to always keep that strong conviction on your faith because what truly matters are your actions. (I'm hoping a moderator/admin would close this thread already).
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Regarding having to teach humans what is right and what is wrong, I believe that this is actually more natural. Belief isn't as important as actions taken. Quote:
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2009-09-24, 11:35 | Link #2007 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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If not this becomes simply a listing thread, and I find those very pointless in forums.
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2009-09-24, 11:44 | Link #2008 |
Test Drive
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I'm Christian, and I have to back him up. I was always taught that God was the Father and a totally seperate being from us, humanity, and from his Son. Jesus was God's son born of the Virgin Mary, and he died for our sins. God and Jesus are two seperate entities, according to what I've been taught.
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2009-09-24, 11:53 | Link #2009 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I think I didn't say it correctly. Imagine this: instead of 2 seconds, let's make it 5 minutes. Keep the first picture. This time, a group of people enter the house, kill the son, beat up your friends, rape your granddaughters, burns the house down.... while you are lying there, watch, hear and feel: the scream, the terror, the destruction... Now would you rather die just before all of that happens or cling on those 5 minutes. Tell me. |
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2009-09-24, 11:56 | Link #2010 | |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
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2009-09-24, 12:01 | Link #2011 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Humans do NOT have the most 'power' on Earth. A successful species, yes, but we could easily be wiped out by the right micro-organisms. We don't need to create a line between humans and animals. We are entirely animal in every action we take. There is nothing innately different in us. When did I say it was 'forced?' I said to consider the complexity and grandiose nature of the world we live in, instead of having tunnel vision. And you are human because you were born that way, it has nothing to do with any actions you take. |
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2009-09-24, 12:09 | Link #2012 | ||
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2009-09-24, 12:19 | Link #2013 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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In the end, this is pretty subjective...so I rest my case. Quote:
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Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2009-09-24 at 15:36. |
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2009-09-24, 12:33 | Link #2015 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Anyway, you can also read it to gain some knowledges. Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2009-09-24 at 15:36. |
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2009-09-24, 12:36 | Link #2016 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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It is not killing two birds with one stone, if you only do it for a third party. I'm curious how would many people act if God's morality was swapped. He desired for humans to do evil things in the world. Would people still follow him, or would they end up defying him?
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2009-09-24, 12:39 | Link #2017 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Our discussion is one of many forms of communication found in the animal kingdom. I'm not entirely sure it is subjective either, as I pointed out humanity could easily become extinct. If you aren't capable of appreciating the world and all of its organisms, then your vision of reality is too narrow for me to alter or influence, so I will end my replies to you here. |
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2009-09-24, 12:43 | Link #2018 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Its like when there's light, there's absence of light, when there's good, there's evil. Quote:
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2009-09-24, 12:44 | Link #2019 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Reviewing the last few pages, I think its time for a mod-stick..... :P
@Cipher: I've actually examined Islam fairly closely (since the Abrahamic religion connectivity made it an easy early stop). Like many religions, there are aspects that are "good" but being "good" they're also somewhat universal to all religions (altruism, golden rule, etc). There are many interpretations (just like in the J-C part of the J-C-I) that however, basically demean, abuse, or incite violence to other human beings. All three of the religions have long histories of this abuse and misuse. Islam, in its early form, was interestingly extremely pro-science -- much of the mathematics, astronomy, and land use knowledge came during its early years. Unfortunately, there are virulent strains in all 3 religions that are anti-science, anti-intellectual. We just have to pick up the news to see examples in all three religions. The underlying mythologies of the J-C-I religions also just simply didn't work if I took them literally. So I kept moving... I examined older European religions (Kelt, Norse, folk) interesting but depressing. I looked to the East with a brief stop in Native America. Here, I still found violence but it was more rarely religious fueled. It was usually resource competition or greed as the stated driver rather than resorting to "our god is on our side" nonsense. Trying to keep this short (could spend pages on each sentence) but at the end, only Zen Buddhism seemed to actually fit most of the puzzle parts for how to view my reality. Even that I find lacking in some ways as Buddhism often incorporates some of the pre-existing dogma of whatever region it moves into. The animism portion of my position is more of a playful anthropomorphism on the organic and inorganic instances of the universe. Ascribing intent to them makes sense if you simply view self-aware life (humans and animals) as the highest formulation of arising self-organizing complexity of matter. Hurricanes, dust-devils, ants, plants, dogs, people, viruses are all instances of complexity along a scale with various levels of intent. If your religion works for you and you don't mistreat others as a result of it... that's great. If a belief directly conflicts with evidence though.... a religion should be enduring enough to incorporate the new data. Much of the holy books of the J-C-I faiths have many rules that most modern followers ignore.... because they either do not make sense or they permit poor treatment that contradicts the core tenets of altruism and the golden rule. Example: Quote:
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-09-24 at 13:13. |
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2009-09-24, 12:44 | Link #2020 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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i think the response went something along the lines of God = Morality so it would be impossible (logical paradoxes be damned) and such a question is therefore meaningless. That's about what I can remember. I think the argument you just said was similar to a something dilemna. I can't quite remember the name but it did have Dilemna in it (I'm sure it's not moral dilemna), and I think Plato thought of it. [edit] I remember now. It was the Euthyphro dilemma.
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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