2010-12-24, 18:41 | Link #20301 | |
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2010-12-24, 18:45 | Link #20302 |
The True Culprit
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In the Sixth Gameboard, there are 18 people. However, Erika does not exist, so the true count is 17.
Duh. As for Erika, she's a fictional character. A fictional character portrayed as a meta-entity descending to a gameboard. You say that's not mystery? Well, alright. Good thing the sixth game is "not a mystery, but a confession" huh?
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2010-12-24, 18:54 | Link #20304 | |
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2010-12-24, 19:02 | Link #20306 |
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A person that doesn't exist at all and yet kills people? I can see a partially existing person partially killing someone but how can person that doesn't exist kill someone? So if Erika doesn't exist in EP6 we should discard all of it, no point of having that episode.
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2010-12-24, 19:32 | Link #20307 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Zealand
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There are seventeen people. Erika is the eighteenth person. I fail to see the problem here.
If I have a bowl of oranges, and there are seventeen oranges in it, if I add in another orange, that doesn't change the fact that "There are seventeen oranges in the bowl". It changes the fact "There are NO MORE THAN seventeen oranges in the bowl", but I can state there are seventeen, sixteen or three oranges in the bowl, because it's still true. On the topic of Erika killing the FT victims: I propose my "Jessica is a candlestick" interpretation. In the same way that Mr. Green killed the master in the dining room with the candle stick, META-Erika killed the FT victims using the Jessica (for example). It was Meta-Erika's decision that got them killed, so it counts. It's a way to interpret it. |
2010-12-24, 20:43 | Link #20308 |
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Haha, this has probably been mentioned but I just had an insight regarding the name Lion and why it was important to be spelled the way it was according to RK, its yet another Jesus allusion. Lion of Judah, so thats Yaso, Yasu , Yoshida and Lion what IS he trying to tell us
Really....what is he trying to tell us... |
2010-12-24, 20:48 | Link #20309 | |
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Read my post. Justice Wargrave in "And Then There Were None", a book that HEAVILY influences Umineko, makes his death look like a murder using string and a revolver. It's the same deal. Really easy trick. 2) Red Truth. Red Truth "All people can only use their own names!!!!" That's a useless truth. Kanon's name belongs to both Yasu and Jessica, as Kanon is a joint creation. We already know there are two Battlers. As we have one who is born from Asumu, and one who isn't. There is a second Battler. 3) Jessica probably found out about her own birth from Nanjo, who helped with the switch, or from Krauss and Natsuhi who do not love her and told her out of spite. 4) Loktar. You're making an argument and not stating facts. "The person who posed as Beatrice killed themselves after talking to Battler" is a fact. Saying that person is "Yasu" is an argument. So, what you're saying is, that after she talks to Battler she leaps off the mansion runs with a stake into a drainage ditch and kills herself? That's infinitely less plausible than Jessica going back to her room and shooting herself with the same trick used in And Then There Were None. 4a) Your answer is still possible because Battler proved you could go down the study from the window. I don't remember if he ever checks the study to see if the windows are locked. I remember him saying there was no way in or out. However, why in the world would she run all the way into a drainage ditch. Jessica's suicide makes sense, she kills herself in her own room. Yasu's suicide doesn't-- its in the middle of nowhere. 5) Fine, she could have just witnessed. Doesn't change anything else. 6) Works too, but someone was in the mansion when they spoke to Battler and so their body should be in there too. I don't think the theory is particularly outlandish, although personally I don't like Shkannon that much, if we are given Shkannon as a fact, then this is pretty much how it has to happen. My excuse for Shkannon is the only plausible one I've heard. The main failure for Shkannon is "How do you hide that for THREE years?" The only answer is if we have a few people in on it. -- Thematically, the text supports a lot of my interpretation. Ep 8 is probably going to be more of a solution episode where Battler attempts to fix his broken family and get them all out alive. But hopefully we see the answer and get a look at it. Basically, doubting Ep 7's interpretation is the equivalent of trying to pin the crime on a witch. Whether we call them a culprit or a witch, they are a convenient out for the real problem. That all of the siblings are capable of and ready to murder. Yeah, we can blame Beatrice, but the crimes happen even in a world where she doesn't exist and there is no plot to kill. Truth is: Krauss is a bully who lied to his brothers and sisters about the death of their father to hide the fact that he was stealing money. Natsuhi was complicit in this lie. Eva is ambitious, arrogant, and would do anything to make sure the headship came their way. Hideyoshi is her pushover husband. They desperately need money or they are going to go broke. Rosa is an abusive mother who has debts, a kid, and believes that money would give her the freedom to get remarried. Rudolf is a cheating liar who leads two lives, continually gets chicks knocked up, swindles people out of money, and desperately needs money or he too will go broke. Kyrie is probably a sociopath. The very best that can be said about her is that she has been in love with Rudolf for over 18 years and has been determined to get together with him. However, she would be ready to kill him if she thought he was a risk to her. That's the family. That is who they are. Even with Yasu gone, they still murder each other, and murder her. Because they have really big problems. |
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2010-12-24, 20:51 | Link #20310 | |
別にいいけど
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Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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2010-12-24, 20:53 | Link #20311 |
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You mean Judah, which originally was "Yehuda" is very similar sounding to Yasuda... especially since the original Yehuda translated into Japanese is イェフダ (Yefuda), for example with:
Judah Loew ben Bezalel http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/イェフダ・レーヴ・ベン・ベザレル |
2010-12-24, 21:00 | Link #20313 |
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Yes, Jessica knew how her head would be blown in half when she pulled the trigger and thats more plausible than someone knowing she said that and making it look just like what she said in the telephone call.
Small question, if Jessica was really Yasu and she inherited the ring and title, why didn't she just say "Guess what, get out of my island" to her parents? |
2010-12-24, 21:08 | Link #20314 | ||||
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I'll ask again: What happened to the gun? Quote:
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2010-12-24, 21:09 | Link #20315 | |
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VVV il leone di giuda Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2010-12-24 at 21:23. |
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2010-12-24, 21:22 | Link #20317 | |
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In the beginning we get a scene with Will where he talks about motives to kill. It specifically mentions "money problems" as a factor. And we get to see in Episode 7 that they all do in fact kill each other over the gold. We are talking about a card with about 100 million us dollars on it, and gold worth about another billion US dollars. There are many people who have committed murder for far less, and Episode 4 even goes line item person by person and shows that they all are really hard up for cash and stand to lose everything if they don't get it. Hitmen typically do jobs for much less money. So, when you have a family full of problems with an opportunity to be one of the richest people on earth, it's a recipe for what happens. I'll turn the question around, only because I believe the entire series shows them to be capable of murder (Lying about the death of a father, swindling people for money, abusing children, trying to oust your brother from his inheritance by having a baby--). Where does it ever show the siblings not hating one another or manipulating each other in power games? Episode 7, is the truth, at least, it's basically an important truth. Lion does die. Doesn't matter that she didn't plan it. The siblings are ready to kill. Kyrie even says in Episode 6 that she would have killed Asumu. She very plainly says "Yes, I am capable of murder". --- So, if Shkannon is true, I think I've provided the only plausible expectation of how it works. The alternative eschews Jessica, which is pretty ridiculous. And it is very clear that Shkannon is genderless, if we believe the guts of the story where we have Yasu screaming at Nanjo about a body that can't love. Also, other answers don't address why Battlers birthday appears on the door (and why it's the 8 digit pin for the bank cards). Ultimately, we're a week away from an answer and I look forward to it. |
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2010-12-24, 21:27 | Link #20318 |
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I think maybe the issue is that the siblings running around killing each other is at best a murder 2 scenario. That is non-premeditated, spontaneous act of murder.
I think we're all looking for a murder 1 scenario, besides supposedly Yasu planning it, (which we kinda doubt.) Who could have planned the murder ahead of time and executed it, knowing all the factors in play? With just the siblings, it doesn't seem like there's enough murder to go around... |
2010-12-24, 21:30 | Link #20319 |
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Money problems is the most tired excuse to commit a crime, unless you can spin an elaborate case where a suspect that you weren't expecting to commit those crimes for that reason ends up doing it. Thats why any of the adults actually pulling this off for it seems so impossible, of course this is in respects to the detective mystery genre. Its too easy a solution and ends up disappointing the reader.
I'd personally would rather have Gorge or Jessica be the culprit than any of the adults, but Erika's fake why dunnit for Nats was ok, totally wasn't expecting that |
2010-12-24, 21:36 | Link #20320 |
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I would love to hear your argument in court:
"All humans are capable of murder. Therefore, the family murdered each other." I'm not saying that the family didn't murder each other but you have not presented enough evidence to finger any of the adults. Don't give me that Kyrie quote from episode 6. Show me evidence from the question arcs. Also, claiming that you have provided the only plausible explanation for Shkanon is absurd. I've seen better back when we were discussing it before episode 6. It's so easy for you guys to jump on the bandwagon when Jan-Poo, myself, and others were trying to figure it out before there were any solid hints from the core arcs.
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