2010-12-28, 06:25 | Link #20501 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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My theory for this game:
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2010-12-28, 07:07 | Link #20502 | ||
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I'm just saying the ep7 explanation makes logical sense, but the 2 year gap before the Epitaph murders is left blank, and all the events prior to that don't provide motive for Yasu to murder everyone. Motive is important, Will said so himself. So while Ep7 itself may make logical sense, albeit with an assumption Kinzo is rather deranged(which is understandable given his circumstances), there's no explanation for why Yasu killed everyone. I could see her killing Battler out of spite for leading her on in her mind, but everyone else? She has no real vendetta against everyone else, Kinzo didn't ask her to do it, she actually LIKES Jessica and George presumably, she barely knows Eva, Rosa, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi. Ange isn't even there and she barely knows Ange. Yasu has no reason to kill anyone unless someone specifically convinced her to, and thus far there is no evidence whatsoever that Kinzo did, or that any of the servants would be motivated to. That, essentially, leaves George and Jessica, and to be quite honest I don't think Jessica has the brains for that kind of plotting. Other than Natsuhi and Krauss, no one else had enough contact with her to manipulate her to that degree. So ultimately either George is the culprit or ep 7 is completely false and utterly worthless from an explanatory standpoint(and I'd really like to think that Ryukishi didn't write an entire episode full of totally useless fake information). |
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2010-12-28, 07:27 | Link #20503 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Even with a mastermind culprit like George going about pulling the strings it wont make sense in some of the episodes. He/she would have to convince Rosa in EP2 to lie about the chapel and everyone seems to die in each episode. There could be the dual culprit thing going on that would complicate things.
Here's what I want to happen in EP8. One absolute culprit that ties perfectly with the first 4 episodes, if it also works on the 5th and 6th then its even better. It has to have a twist, a big one. Something that was under our noses the whole time but we didn't take into consideration and spins everything under a new light. If there are any bad ends they should be mind blowing, they should hint as to what really was happening and lead you to the correct path. |
2010-12-28, 08:00 | Link #20504 | |
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2010-12-28, 08:27 | Link #20505 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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You need to consider that when she departed from Italy the "government" was the Salò Republic, and they probably made it all in secret. Even if some document existed they'd probably burn it. The government formed later didn't exist before, so it's very unlikely that they'd be aware of the secrets of the previous one. In fact it is a well known fact that a lot of gold (some sources claim 119 tons) vanished from Italy after the war, but as far as I know it was never recovered, and no one was ever put on trial for that. Quote:
There are several problems implicated in making an interpretation that assumes stuff never stated in a story and then use that as a way to explain that "everything makes sense". 1) With enough fantasy and skill you can make sense out of almost every story, but that would be your story as you rewrote it that'd make sense not the original. 2) By making up stuff in order to "fix" something you might fail to notice an inconsistency that is supposed to give the reader the ability to understand that it's false. For example if someone in the past tried to make sense out of "magic" in umineko regardless of all the blatant inconsistencies, he would have just wasted his time in an attempt to deny the obvious. I'm not sure I can explain it well... but basically when you say "it makes sense" you are making a judgement about a story or a part of a story. A judgement should be impartial objective and devoid of biases. You can make theories, but you can't use your theories as an argument to claim that a story makes sense, even if your theory actually fixes every plot hole! What do you know? Maybe you got an idea that the author himself never had and never intended to be true. At any rate the very definition of "plot hole" is the lack of a clear explanation about a certain fact in the story. It matters not if you can come up with an explanation. The story requires that such explanation must be given, and if it wasn't, it's a plot hole. For example Character A calls Character B by name even if they just met and they never introduced each other. That would be a no brainer to fix this, you'd just need to imagine that they already met in their past. But how do you even know if that really happened or if that's supposed to have happened? It wasn't mentioned, it wasn't hinted, it wasn't implied then you simply conclude there is an unexplained inconsistency.
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-12-28 at 08:42. |
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2010-12-28, 08:47 | Link #20506 | |
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Just because he did something that is not explained doesn't mean that he did something that should be discounted as impossible simply because of the lack of explanation. That's the whole point of theorizing. If you don't make "What if"s then you're not going to get any closer to a solution than someone making incorrect "What if"s. |
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2010-12-28, 10:05 | Link #20508 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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My predictions are pretty well covered (although not necessarily 100% in line with anyone else, just about everyone else has said something I think is likely).
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2010-12-28, 12:25 | Link #20509 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Renall, can I still convince you to post your views? I was looking forward to reading yours and Jan-Poo's.
*** I partially agree with some theories here, but here is my take on a few issues. Keep in mind this a very short summation. And I can't really say I have a complete solution; I couldn't find enough evidence for a lot of conjectures I won't mention here, especially regarding the motive. Spoiler for Shkanon, Whydunnit, Whodunnit:
Spoiler for Howdunnit:
Spoiler for The Author:
Last edited by witchfan; 2010-12-30 at 10:30. |
2010-12-28, 16:58 | Link #20510 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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No matter how you look at it Kinzo is a lustful scum.
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2010-12-28, 19:03 | Link #20511 | |
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I mean, they did have FOUR kids, compared to one from Beato.
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2010-12-28, 19:06 | Link #20512 | |
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Not to mention that the overly possessive ones throughout the series have all been the wives and women in general, George being the exception. It's not a stretch to say that Kinzo's legal wife waited for him to get drunk and then made it happen. I mean...Absinthe, right? It does things. Maybe Kinzo was drunk enough to think his wife was Beatrice, and that's how she found out? |
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2010-12-28, 19:18 | Link #20513 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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That isn't as nearly as probable as the other way around.
Kinzo had become a new man after meeting Beatrice, he was no longer a puppet but the Kinzo we all know. We know that Kinzo's wife suspected that he had a mistress, if he was really a puppet his wife would have made him spill the beans. Plus Kinzo is totally a chauvinist he wouldn't let a woman (other than Beatrice) command him. That would be completely out of character. And then what really settles the matter is the huge gap between Rudolf and Rosa. If it really depended on Kinzo's wife, then there is no explanation for this. However if you take in account the time Kinzo has been in war, the time he's been with Beatrice and a few years of mourning. Then it becomes quite clear why such gap exists. The evidence is all against Kinzo.
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2010-12-28, 19:27 | Link #20514 | ||
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There's no reason why all of his children couldnt have been conceived this way. Equally probable. Much like Lion, so too are Kinzo's pants a catbox. Quote:
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2010-12-28, 19:31 | Link #20515 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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He had sex with his daughter and he's got 4 children from a woman he didn't even love, one of which was conceived when he was an elder already. The faithful Genji lied to him for years because he feared he'd rape his granddaughter as well. I believe that's enough evidence.
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2010-12-28, 19:37 | Link #20517 | ||
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And Kinzo could have been drunk out of his damn wits when the wincest incident occurred. My god. Absinthe was the culprit. It's the reason behind all of the ridiculously stupid actions the members of the Ushiromiya family have taken. Quote:
It's been foreshadowed from the very beginning. And let's not forget that the mental trauma known as senior love exists in this world. |
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2010-12-28, 19:52 | Link #20518 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Nowhere in Kinzo's story in EP7 absinthe was used as an excuse for his actions. In addition the fact that Kinzo is alive in Lion's world proves that he never indulged in an unhealthy manner in his drinking before the baby died. There is no proof whatsoever that Kinzo was a drunkard before that.
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2010-12-28, 20:06 | Link #20519 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-12-28, 20:06 | Link #20520 | |
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And are we really about to get into the discussion about the likelihood of Kinzo's drinking affecting his lifespan? Does that even matter? |
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