Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[HayashiTakara]

Orihime's feelings for Ichigo has existed since the very beginning, if you didn't see it, then I don't know what to tell you. Those feelings further intensified as the series went on. As far as emotions growing, Orihime is the only one that maintained consistency in growth, and when she thought that she was going to never see Ichigo again, she couldn't hold it anymore, which led to her confession.

Theres been hardly any growth in emotions between Ichigo and Rukia, it has stayed the same since the S.S. arc. Orihime has been planned to be the main heroine of this arc from the very beginning, pay attention to the words she say when she does her skills and you'll know what I'm talking about. Orihime will continue to play a very important role, as she is virtually a living god, and for all intents and purposes the only on that can truly end everything.

Rukia has played out her role, she's become the weakling canon fodder that goes along with the ilk of Chad, Ishida and Renji.

[King87]

Orihime's feelings has existed since day 1 of the manga which is correct. no argument there. But again there is no relationship going to happen with either ichigorukia or ichigo orihime. One thing I want people to notice what tyan stated was how ichigo and orihime does not show any significant growth between each other in the hm arc. Another thing you have to notice in the differance in the ss and hm arc. In the ss arc chad while fighting the 8th captain said he was risking his life because Ichigo was risking his life ( it was not really for rukia). Orihime because she wanted to protect Ichigo and help him went to soul society. Ishida went because he could not end the fight between shinigami the way it had.( with him getting his behind whip). If i am wrong someone please correct me, but I did not see anyone except ichigo say i am fighting to save my friend. In the hm arc everybody,(even rukia and renji) consider orihime their friend and are fighting to help her out. It is a group decision here. Not like with ss when everyone wanted to find answers to questions....chad for why he is so strong, Ishida and the history with his grandfather, ganju and history with his brother. Again look at the content and you could see their is no grounds for any relationship with ichigo.

[HayashiTakara]

Ichigo decided to go alone, Chad and Ishida tagged along to help Ichigo, Ichigo didn't even want them to go cause he thought they were too weak to help. Chad and Ishida's primary friendship lies with Ichigo, they want to help him save Orihime.

Rukia and Renji popped up unexpectedly, Rukia wants to save Orihime the way she was saved back in S.S. Renji tagged along most likely because of Rukia.

[King87]

I agree that chad and ishida primary friendship is with ichigo, but chad and ishida are friends with orihime and wanted to save her. I agree that they wanted to help Ichigo, but their feelings about saving a friend comes into play also. Again it is not like ss where helping Ichigo was the main objective. Helping ichigo is important in hm but not as important as saving orihime. Rukia does want to save orihime for the help she has done in ss, I agree. But they have also become good friends, this can be notice when captain ukitake explains to hisagi rukia friendship with orihime even tho one is a shinigami and the other is human, and he also goes futher to explain how this friendship is good for rukia. Later when she fights the espada she tells him, he can kill her after she saves a "dear friend". I am not taking anything away from what you said, but just wanted to go into more detail. rukia does want to return the favor, but it goes beyond that with them too.
Again I do not think no relationship will happen between any one with ichigo. I do not see how it will play out. I do feel some ichigo rukia fans do hate on orihime which is sad because she has become a strong character. And I do feel some ichigo orihime fans look above and beyond to evidence when there is relatively little. Except for orihime feelings. One thing that I pointed out earlier is how other people in the bleach community look at ichigo and those two women. Going past the ss arc you could still see how close Ichigo rukia are compared to Ichigo orihime. Orihime herself notices the differances. When Ichigo went to the vaizards and told no one, both orihime and rukia was worried. Orihime starting asking herself if she should go look for him, and then ask herself if "Ichigo left rukia side without telling her". That is to say how close orihime thought ichigo rukia were. She might be wrong, because since he did not tell rukia their relationship might not be as important as everyone thinks. Secondly the first ? posed to rukia from nel is " what is your relationship with my Ichigo". 163 chapters of manga coming this thursday and we have yet to see the ? posed to orihime. This is not for ichigo rukia cause everyone knows her answer is just friends, which I agree they are and nothing more.
One last thing I want to point out is when Ichigo reveal his hollow mask to orihime. I agree he showed concern to calm orihime fears about it. But was it because he cared more about her opinions. ANY one have facts on that matter? The only thing I can say about that scene based on what the manga says is if you remember when Ichigo and hirako was speaking hirako was implying once everyone found/saw his hollow side his friends will disappear and that is why he is on the wrong side. Fast forward to the scene with orihime we do not know what is the reason why he is going through the trouble of calming orihime. But not alot of his friends have seen his mask. Orihime and others where there when rukia ask ichigo to get help with the " hollow inside" so to say she had not heard about it would be wrong, but maybe she and others never fully grasp what was going on with ichigo. And can anybody tell me when and how did rukia find out about Ichigo Hollow side? Thanks.
Sorry the last paragraph was my own little rant! Still no Ichigo rukia or Ichigo orihime.

[Tyan]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Orihime's feelings for Ichigo has existed since the very beginning, if you didn't see it, then I don't know what to tell you. Those feelings further intensified as the series went on. As far as emotions growing, Orihime is the only one that maintained consistency in growth, and when she thought that she was going to never see Ichigo again, she couldn't hold it anymore, which led to her confession.

You don't need to tell me anything, I did see her feelings for him since the very beginning. I'm sorry if I made it look like I didn't. At that time Kubo played it out as a crush, mostly for laugh, while now her feelings have turned much more serious and are becoming a bit of a problem for her. Just as you said, they have intensified. Her confession is actually one of my favorite scenes in the manga, and another example of how her love has mostly to do with herself and her own development. She knew Ichigo couldn't hear her; there was no response he could give. The only person her confession could affect was her.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Theres been hardly any growth in emotions between Ichigo and Rukia, it has stayed the same since the S.S. arc.

That isn't true. Look at the reunion scene, how Rukia kicked him back in shape. Look at how they wanted to live together. Look at how Ichigo gained respect for her powers and acknowledged her strength. Look at how Rukia scolded him for trying to protect her. Look at how she gained strength by remembering him (as in how she looked up with a determined look on her face from the memory of him).

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Rukia has played out her role, she's become the weakling canon fodder that goes along with the ilk of Chad, Ishida and Renji.

I highly disagree on this. I do not believe Inoue will replace Rukia as the heroine, but Kubo has made her into a very special and important character. You can't just bunch either of them together with Chad, Ishida and Renji. I understand that you see it that way, given how much more attention Inoue has been given, but Rukia still plays an important part. How? For one, with her friendship with Inoue. Their friendship is good for both of them and I don't think it should be taken lightly.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Ichigo decided to go alone, Chad and Ishida tagged along to help Ichigo, Ichigo didn't even want them to go cause he thought they were too weak to help. Chad and Ishida's primary friendship lies with Ichigo, they want to help him save Orihime.

What you are stating here is that Chad and Ishida only came along because Ichigo is trying save her, but that is so wrong. Both Chad and Ishida care for her as a friend and have their own relationship with her. Ishida even said, "I'll go save her myself" -- is that because of Ichigo? Yes, they are both friends with the main character, but I can't believe you are stating that they don't have an individual wish for her to be rescued.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Rukia and Renji popped up unexpectedly, Rukia wants to save Orihime the way she was saved back in S.S. Renji tagged along most likely because of Rukia.

It seems like you make light of Rukia's will to save Inoue. Did you not read her near-death scene and Ukitake's comment? Rukia understands her, she knows the pain and loneliness of being captured. She knows that even though she is afraid of her friends getting hurt, she will also want to be saved. And a friend, Rukia wants to save her. She strongly cares for her. It may be that you know this, but it didn't seem like it -- or that if you did, you didn't care :P

[HaNa-san]

Sabaku Kyu
Rukia is shown to worry about Ichigo because he is usually in the most danger. After she defeated Aaronerrio, she wasn't shown thinking of either Ichigo or Renji, but Orihime. It depends on the situation. But when Renji is in extreme danger (like when he fought Bya) Rukia has shown to be just as concerned about his safety. As for Chad's and Rukia's strength, yes, I'm sorry to say they've generally been portrayed as weaker than just about all the other main characters.

We still don’t know the difference measurements between the strength level of the group..so if I were you I'll wait before stating these judgments because it'll be embarrassing if it appears to be wrong especially regarding rukia, since she only fought two fights..

In SS arc, Karakura Invasion mini-arc and the HM arc, Chad was the first to fall. Though he is physically powerful, he goes down quick against strong enemies. Rukia does maybe a little bit better than Chad in battle, but she's obviously not as powerful as Renji, Ishida or Ichigo. Her victory against Espada no.9 was basically a last-ditch gambit. Ishida and Renj have both been in much more impressive battles (like against Mayuri and Bya).

Again, you still compare them without any clear evidence.. ishida won against mayuri but renji didn't, is that mean ishida is stronger than renji, I don't think so..

And don't forget

Spoiler for manga spoiler:

Rukia and ichigo are the only who won against an espada while ishida, renji and chad are owned by mayori and kenpachi..

Anyways, to tie this back into the conversation. Chad going down first is the status quo and not meant to be compared to Rukia's situation. He's used as fodder to show the strength of major enemies. It's always been like this.

So you have entered inside kubo's mind to be sure about that..amazing =)

Of course, Rukia is far more important storywise than Chad. It's more dramatic if Ichigo has to rescue her rather than good 'ol Chad. That's why he's always put in a situation where he can manage to "hang on" so it's justified that Ichigo can focus his attention elsewhere. It's not supposed to be about Ichigo playing favorites.

Kubo doesn't write random staff ..he chose chad then rukia to imply something to the readers..who can't see that, I feel pity for them..

"As I thought" means the basically same thing as "I knew" and it doesn't indicate doubt or uncertainty. "So" depends on the context it's used in.... but I'm through discussing this point anyway as I think it's pretty much pointless. The only reason it's talked about so often is that some people use this glimmer of "doubt" to try to make it seem like Ichigo doesn't trust Orihime, which is ridiculous.

It seems you didn't understand the whole situation.. ok I'll be kind enough to write something more clearer to you so that you can see it from another angle..

Imagine this happened between isshin and ichigo..

Ichigo: "dad did you eat my strawberry cake, I can't find it in the refrigerator"
Isshin: "what!! you're suspecting your lovely dad"
Ichigo: "because you're the only one who was at home, when I bought my cake"
Isshin: "I'm so sad to hear that from my precious son to have some doubts on his lovely dad..gahh" *then isshin left*
Then ichigo felt guilty and spends some time thinking… Yuzu came and asked of what has happened to isshin because she saw him running away while his tears covered half of his face .…ichigo explained to her the situation..
Then she says: "actually when I went to my dad room to clean I saw the cake package in his room..so it seems he's the one who did it.."
Then ichigo yells saying: ' As I thought, he's the culprit after all.."

Even if he was so sure that orihime didn't do it or isshin did it (in my story), but that didn't mean he has 0 doubts coz her situation was confusing..coming to his room alone and then disappearing without leaving any clues..how can ichigo be sure 100% that orihime didn't go by herself.. Believing on someone can leave a space of doubts too especially if that person is not very close to you..

Hope my post made it more clear to you now, if it didn't, I can't help you more than that..sorry..

And are you ignoring the part where Ichigo was walking toward the exit and Ulq made no attempt to get in his way? I'm not saying that Ichigo was fighting for Orihime's honor (though the words to Ulq when he attacked do indicate that). I am saying that he was initally provoked to attack and not forced . Orihime was the subject of that provocation. That's crystal clear.

Of course he attacked him when he heard what he did to orhime, but that doesn’t mean he was fighting to rebuild orhime's honor..he said that he's in hurry and has no intention to waste time fighting him longer, that's why he pulled out all of his power at once.. It's clear that he wants to finish the fight so that he can go to rukia as soon as possible..but that doesn’t mean he didn't care about orhime..he might be thinking that he'll come later to fight him longer and give him a good lesson of what he has done to orihime and what he has caused to all the group of troubles..

King87

Yes it's clear that ss arc is more personal to ichigo than hm arc where everyone is involved to help orihime as a nakama like what ichigo wants..hm arc defines to be more a nakama arc than ss arc..

About your other questions..i think it has been answered in the previous pages, you just have to go there and read them..but it seems you can't see either ichiruki or ichiori..i dunno why you are in this thread in the first place then ??


Tyan awesome post ..I really enjoyed reading it ^^ keep it up =>

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Tyan

I'm going to be honest here and say that even though I'm pretty neutral about this whole thing, a part of me is still voting for IchiRuki. But it kind of annoys me to see people dismissing Ichigo's care for others besides the one they want him to end up with. Just ask yourself: if you were faced with the choice of saving your girl/boyfriend or your best friend, which one of them would you choose? It would be impossible to pick one! However, since this is a feel-good manga, people like Ichigo would find a way to save both. They take a look at the circumstances and find out what is the best thing to do at the moment. They think fast. I think people should look at other scenes in regard to romance if they want to try and prove their pairing's possibility. ^_^

Hear, hear. I say Ichigo is Superman. Superman may love his wife, Lois Lane, the most. But he's kept more busy saving his best friend Jimmy instead. Of course, Superman would never even contemplate giving up saving innocents, even if that means leaving his loved ones (parents, wife, best friend) in harm's way. Moreover, Superman won't even kill his enemies, even if that places himself and his loved ones at more risk. Despite all that....he still manages to pull all those contradictory goals off, and do everything. Why? Because he's Superman.......he's not supposed to have to sacrifice one ideal for another.

Spoiler for HM:

That's ichigo too. He took time to heal ikkaku and dordonni after beating them, two strangers who attacked him. He wouldn't kill Byakuya, the man who wanted Rukia dead. He didn't even want to kill Grimmjow...........even though Grimm had put a hole in Rukia earlier!!
Ichigo rushes to save all his friends from danger......Chad, Ishida, Orihime, Rukia, etc. In a ideal good-guy world he shouldn't have to choose one over the other......and really, Kubo hasn't made him do so. To justify Ichigo going for Rukia instead of Chad, Kubo made it clear that Rukia's injuries were more serious...... that she was lying on ground bleeding to death.......that even Ulqi told him she was dead. It was clear that Ichigo was not giving up Chad for a friend in equal danger/closeness to death. And as Hana-chan points out, after Ichi beats Grimmjow his first words to Orihime are not let's go save Rukia. It's "lets go save Chad AND Rukia."

.
Sure, if Ichigo was not a fictional character, then he might have to choose between which ideal to live by. Do not kill those who are redeemable, or protect friends, or protect lovers, or save innocents? But as soon as that choice happens....something of the character is lost.

Originally Posted by Tyan

As before, Inoue's development is always internal. If anyone has noticed, Ichigo and Inoue's relationship hasn't changed all that much in terms of developing into romance -- most developments in regards to the IchiHime relationship is within Inoue herself. Inoue's feelings always come back to herself: her insecurities and conflicts are within herself. There is barely anything from Ichigo.

As I've said before.......that's what makes Orihime's development so fascinating for me, and why I'd be happy to see her continue without any romantic involvement. I think Kubo might be heading somewhere dramatic with her character.......to the point that people think of her as much more than Rukia's rival love interest and plot DeusEx. I think all this time, Orihime has been trying to be what Rukia is to Ichigo.......that is, a fellow warrior, someone who can fight with him. To her, accepting that she's not such a person.......is tantamount to giving up on helping her friends. I think it might be though, that Kubo finds a third way for her. A way to be useful without becoming another warrior. And all that she has experienced in HM could just be a transition to that.

I've read a few too many romances preaching that solutions to troubles come from companionship. I think it's almost the other way around sometimes. First one has to heal oneself and grow as a person.......and then one can be ready for romantic commitment. That by the way, is why I think it was very important that Rukia not be rushed into a relationship with Ichigo. She needed to resolve her troubles with Byakuya and Renji, to forgive herself for killing Shiba Kaien. She's not far from being in a place where she believes that she's worthy of being loved.

[Endrance]

The fact is that orihime will never be a warrior type like rukia because shes just to nice yeh she has her defence/healing thing but battlewise she cant fight with tsubaki cause she has no killing intent

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

As I've said before.......that's what makes Orihime's development so fascinating for me, and why I'd be happy to see her continue without any romantic involvement. I think Kubo might be heading somewhere dramatic with her character.......to the point that people think of her as much more than Rukia's rival love interest and plot DeusEx. I think all this time, Orihime has been trying to be what Rukia is to Ichigo.......that is, a fellow warrior, someone who can fight with him. To her, accepting that she's not such a person.......is tantamount to giving up on helping her friends. I think it might be though, that Kubo finds a third way for her. A way to be useful without becoming another warrior. And all that she has experienced in HM could just be a transition to that.

I agree completely thats why I love Orihime's character so much! No one knows how she's going to turn out in the end and it's quite facinating trying to understand what's going through her head. I don't think there's ever been such a character in Shounen. Obviously the haters won't understand what im trying to say but I wouldn't be suprised if Inoue has a huge part to play in Bleach before it's over, a bigger role then Rukia's in the end.

[King87]

I like reading everyone's post. That is what drew me hear in the 1st place. I do have a favorite hear between ichigo and the two woman but right now I can not see it taking place. Plus I feel alot of people here are not looking at the facts(even though the past two pages have been excellent, thank you guys). So I just wanted to put my two cents in if thats alright with you Hana san! I dont have ?s I only have one ?. That is how and when did rukia find out about Ichigo hollow. It may have been brought out in the past post but I do not feel like going through 100 pages to find it!

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Tyan

And the suspicious scenes are becoming more and more frequent, harder and harder to explain using other methods. I know so many IchiRuki fans, or people who believe this to be the ultimate pairing, that did not see it until HM, where we have several prominent scenes where Rukia is pointed out among Ichigo's nakama as being different; how different? Is she weak, is she Ichigo's designated 'protectee,' or is it something else? We don't know, but one thing we DO know is that Rukia is treated differently.

I agreed with a lot of your post, but I don't really see how Rukia's relationship with Ichigo has changed in the HM arc. I agree, in the SS arc there was much development and maybe some hints ( like Ichigo's obvious resemblance to Kaien) and there were some emotional scenes between Rukia and Ichigo at the end. But their relationship quickly went back to normal during the Arrancar arc (Rukia scolding/teaching Ichigo, helping him fight, living at his house). The "suspicious" scenes, IMO, were pratically nil. Honestly, much more focus was given to the development of Rukia's friendship with Orihime than her relationship with Ichigo.

I can confidently say I expect this trend to continue. That the suspicious and dubiously romantic scenes will accumulate in number and depth and degree until even people like Babbo or Alucard will see it. They may not believe in it, or think it's good writing or whatever, but if I'm right, eventually, these moments will become impossible to ignore or explain or write off. Truthfully, I'm having some trouble understanding why certain scenes ARE ignored or written of or explained in different ways. To be, to see them any other way is counter-intuitive, so the people who refuse to acknowledge the possibility of this trend or development... baffles me.

I do fully acknowledge Rukia's huge role in the manga, and her close relationship with Ichigo. But the way I see it, the "trend" of romantic scenes w/ Rukia and Ichigo isn't increasing. Kubo has his plate full with the huge cast of secondary characters that were introduced in the SS arc, combined with even more in the HM arc and the ongoing development of the original secondary characters such as Ishida, Chad, Tatsuki, etc... their time is being divided with Rukia's.

Back when it was just Ichigo and Rukia fighting hollow together while trying to keep it a secret to Ichigo's friends and family it was easy to focus on just their interaction together. Rukia (along with Urahara gang and Kon to far lesser extent) were the only people involved in Ichigo's life as a shinigami. And during SS, she was the focus of Ichigo's thoughts as the someone he had to rescue. But now, Ichigo's forced to focus his attention elsewhere and interact with many more people besides just Rukia. The same goes more or less for Orihime, though she currently has the ace card (plotwise) of being the focus/heroine in HM like Rukia was in SS.

That is what most IchiRuki fans think. We DON'T all think Ichigo is in love with Rukia or vice versa. We think it's a relationship in development towards romance at an extremely slow speed.

Sounds reasonable. I can't argue that the potential isn't there.

Now... why IchiHime? I will apologize beforehand. After Neo pointed it out, I DO believe this is a red herring. Why? The timing fits. Orihime's emotions arose at the time when IchiRuki moments are becoming so suspicious that most of the general public would notice it.

I don't really agree with this. Her emotions arose because this arc revolves around her. Everything about her character is being explored: her potential, powers, feelings etc. Her feelings about Ichigo are just one of the aspects about her being developed

So if IchiHime is far more suspicious and active right now, why don't I believe in it? Because of Ichigo's lack of response, for one, but another because it's not smart or considered generally good writing to introduce a romance so fast.

Pardon but, Ichigo's lack of response to what? Neither Rukia or Orihime have ever made romantic advance towards Ichigo (that he could be aware of) and he has never responded romantically to either of them. The only time he gets emotional over either of them is if they are in danger.

Originally Posted by HaNa-san

So you have entered inside kubo's mind to be sure about that..amazing =)

Kubo doesn't write random staff ..he chose chad then rukia to imply something to the readers..who can't see that, I feel pity for them..

So you claim that I am trying to read Kubo's mind when I point out that Chad has been the first to fall against a major enemy 3 separate times

Yet you write lines like this

Originally Posted by HaNa-san

but kubo is the one who wants us to compare by choosing chad ( not ishida or renji) to fall first, then showing us ichigo and the group reaction..then choosing rukia (not anyone else) to fall after him

I'm saying that Chad and Rukia getting injured first is nothing new. Chad fell against Shunsui, Yami and Noitora. And Rukia got taken out by Grimmjow like it was nothing. Notice how Ichigo often seems astonished that someone with Chad's power could lose so easily? That's because there's a message being sent about the enemy's he's facing. The message is: "Chad is strong but the guy he's fighting is really strong" . That's why he fell instead of Renji or Ishida. They generally hold their own better against the stronger enemies though they still may lose. Rukia and Chad both going down against enemies like the Espada should be expected.

It seems you didn't understand the whole situation.. ok I'll be kind enough to write something more clearer to you so that you can see it from another angle..

Believe me, I fully grasped what you were trying to say without the example. The fact is, just beginning a declaration with " So, " by itself does not indicate uncertainty. It just indicates that someone is stating a fact. Even your example is irrelevant. The dialogue still would've made complete sense if you had cut out the part with Ichigo's doubt.

Had we actually seen Ichigo expressing any glimmer of doubt I would say you have a point. Instead we only saw him flat out reject the possibility of it. And Ulq's words just show his use of baiting, mocking and mind games (which he demonstrated many times before that). When/if it's ever shown in the story that he doubts Orihime I'll gladly admit I was wrong, but a made up story isn't going to show me the error of my ways.

how can ichigo be sure 100% that orihime didn't go by herself.. Believing on someone can leave a space of doubts too especially if that person is not very close to you..

Because he trusts her, as he trusts all his friends.

[King87]

Just to add on hana san and tyran ur post were very good!

[Endrance]

Quote:
how can ichigo be sure 100% that orihime didn't go by herself.. Believing on someone can leave a space of doubts too especially if that person is not very close to you..
Because he trusts her, as he trusts all his friends.

i dunno i feel like there was some doubt because when ulquiorra admitted it he seemed like it had been confirmed in his mind. If he had no doubt tha wouldnt have been the case

[BleachOD]

Ichigo never doubted Orihime. He is not one to doubt his friends. He just said out loud what he knew. Orihime was not a traitor. Ahh..... I feel like debating. But there is nothing to debate that hasn't been said.

I will say. Ichigo's reaction to Chad going down and Rukia's was much different. If the two were equal in friendship (Rukia and Chad in Ichigo's eyes) then...He should have attempted to save him too. Whether or not he thinks Chad is invincible...(Which he doesn't or else he wouldn't have tried to leave HM without him) He felt him go down...and correct me if I am wrong but he was just as near death as Rukia...more so since he fell first. That shows that Rukia is more important than anyone.

And Kyu you said Ichigo and Rukia realationship went back to normal after SS right? Thats the point...They have one. Secondly didn't you notice that more than once...Rukia is scolding Ichigo for wanting to protect only her? Did you notice that it was Grimmjow's hurting Rukia that made Ichigo determined to overcome the very thing he feared most? He didn't do that for anyone...Not Chad, or Tatsuki or Inoue for that matter....Only Rukia. Did you see the look in his eyes...and notice Kubo show that it was indeed LOVE...through Orihime's reaction?

You think he put that in there to highlight IchiOri love?

In HM same thing...Ichigo only wanted to protect only Rukia and she and Renji scolds him. Now you can argue it's cause she is a woman...But he tried to protect Ishida and Chad first. He's already seen Rukia's power and she even killed an Arrancar one that Chad could not. Shouldn't he have wanted to protect either Chad and Rukia or all of them...Not just Rukia And to prove it was about Rukia...Kubo has Renji stand in front of her.

Kubo has shown through Ichigo's actions time and time again Rukia is Ichigo's most important person!

Rukia is the only one who can cheer him up.
When it comes to her safety ...all else stops.
When he couldn't protect her and she almost died...He decided he face his hollow
Something he didn't do when Chad, Tatsuki and Orihime were nearly killed by Yammy.
Stalker-Girl, who is uncannily perceptive when it comes to reading Ichigo's emotions...Confirms he loves her on more than one occasion...and cries.

Why are we having this argument again? IchiRuki is apparent....

How come you can't see it

[monir]

It's so difficult to process a thread where the fanciful one-sided view is the prevalent factor from both sides of the argument. Hence, it is always a pleasant surprise to read one of these rare posts that pose an argument in relation to the content without any facts-twisting to fit personal views. Thank you Tyan! I didn't stop reading your post after the first couple of sentence.

[BleachOD]

Um...So you saying I am fanciful?

[Endrance]

Orihime has admitted to liking Ichigo, but Ichigo has never shown a romantic interest in Orihime. I feel his viewpoint towards their relationship is more of a older brother protecting his younger sister kind of thing. She is more of a comrade.When it comes to romantic moments and feelings, Ichigo and Rukia have the deep moments. As for people that feel Ichigo and rukia cant be together due to the fact that he is human and she is a shinigami technically being that isshin is a shinigami ichigo is at least part shinigami along with his substitute status. Ichigo and Rukia never started out with romantic feelings for each other at the beginning of the manga. Rukia didn't fall in love with Ichigo at first sight.The thing I personally love about the interaction between ichigo and rukia is kubo developed it nicely. They went from strangers to comrades to friends to essentially changing each others lives. Define it any way you want but it's still a special relationship. It would make a lot of sense if Ichigo and Rukia developed romantic feelings for each other. They haven't always existed like Orihime's one-sided ones have, but instead they have been growing. Both of them have been showing more emotional response to each other and about each other. Ichigo especially shows alot of emotional outburst with anything concerning rukia:

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

And Kyu you said Ichigo and Rukia realationship went back to normal after SS right? Thats the point...They have one. Secondly didn't you notice that more than once...Rukia is scolding Ichigo for wanting to protect only her?

Yes they have a realationship, but so far it has been in no way romantic. Most of the times it is a mix of teacher/student, squadmate and best friends. Untrue that she scolds him for " wanting to protect only her" she scolds him for steping on her pride and she also scolds him for pulling the same thing on Chad as well.

Did you notice that it was Grimmjow's hurting Rukia that made Ichigo determined to overcome the very thing he feared most? He didn't do that for anyone...Not Chad, or Tatsuki or Inoue for that matter....Only Rukia. Did you see the look in his eyes...and notice Kubo show that it was indeed LOVE...through Orihime's reaction?

You think he put that in there to highlight IchiOri love?

Only because none of them were hurt that badly. You're missing the whole point of the chapter and Ichigo's reasoning. HE FAILED TO PROTECT HIS FRIENDS and it is the exact same look he was giveing Orihime after she was hurt.*****

You'll also notice that Ichigo has again failed to make any moves to help Rukia as she lay bleeding out and instead its Matsu who was a few blocks away had to get her to a healer. It looks more like Ichigo was still beating himself up for his "failure" to me and Orihime reacting to that.

In HM same thing...Ichigo only wanted to protect only Rukia and she and Renji scolds him. Now you can argue it's cause she is a woman...But he tried to protect Ishida and Chad first. He's already seen Rukia's power and she even killed an Arrancar one that Chad could not. Shouldn't he have wanted to protect either Chad and Rukia or all of them...Not just Rukia And to prove it was about Rukia...Kubo has Renji stand in front of her.

Kubo has shown through Ichigo's actions time and time again Rukia is Ichigo's most important person!

Ok how can "Ichigo only wanted to protect only Rukia" and "But he tried to protect Ishida and Chad first" both be true. You're counterdicting yourself. Ichigo still didn't have a clear idea on how strong Rukia was so he was trying to protect her just like he had tried to protect chad and ishida before they proved how strong they had become. And even if he was more worried about Rukia the the others, who he did have a good idea of how powerful they had become, it still had no romantic intrest in there, in fact you could swap chad for Rukia and it would have played out the same way.

Rukia is the only one who can cheer him up.

Other then Tatsuki for years after 6/17 or Orihime after Rukia was taken to SS.

When it comes to her safety ...all else stops.

Unless he is angsting about loseing a fight that left her bleeding to death, or provoked in to fighting because he found who stained Orihime's honor

When he couldn't protect her and she almost died...He decided he face his hollow
Something he didn't do when Chad, Tatsuki and Orihime were nearly killed by Yammy.

No he went to the Vizzards cause his hollow problem was getting worse not just because of what happend to Rukia, both of those events were playing heavy on him.*****

Stalker-Girl, who is uncannily perceptive when it comes to reading Ichigo's emotions...Confirms he loves her on more than one occasion...and cries.

No she confirms that Rukia is an importent person to Ichigo but never says anything about ethier of them being in love with each other and the only time Orihime cried was not because Ichigo loved Rukia but because she thought she was a horible person because she was jealous, and you can be jealous of someone with out that person being loved by the person you love.

Why are we having this argument again? IchiRuki is apparent....

How come you can't see it

BECAUSE IT IS NOT THERE IT'S JUST ABUCH OF SKIEWED OPIONIONS MIXED WITH OUT RIGHT FALSEHOODS.

[BleachOD]

It's are release day for me....But KG I will get back to you...

[Tyan]

AAARGH. I was finally finished and the computer shut down. How irritating.

Lots of good arguments, Sabaku ^_^

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I agreed with a lot of your post, but I don't really see how Rukia's relationship with Ichigo has changed in the HM arc. I agree, in the SS arc there was much development and maybe some hints ( like Ichigo's obvious resemblance to Kaien) and there were some emotional scenes between Rukia and Ichigo at the end. But their relationship quickly went back to normal during the Arrancar arc (Rukia scolding/teaching Ichigo, helping him fight, living at his house). The "suspicious" scenes, IMO, were pratically nil. Honestly, much more focus was given to the development of Rukia's friendship with Orihime than her relationship with Ichigo.

I agree on that Rukia and Inoue's relationship has been more focused on, but then, there was more there to develop as well. But Ichigo and Rukia's relationship hasn't been shoved to the side (and how could it, they're the two main characters). The significant changes I have seen in their relationship is, for one, that they wish to spend time together and they enjoy each other's company. This is obvious. Back in the first arc they were forced together, and now they willingly stay by each other's side. Rukia insisted on sleeping in Ichigo's house, but not just that, she wanted to sleep in his room. Now, that was one thing that didn't pass me unnoticed. Another change in their relationship is that now Rukia is fully introduced into the family. Her apparent presence is important for them also now. Suspicious scenes in this arc, as I see them, are these: (1) Ichigo's family thinking Rukia is his girlfriend, (2) Inoue's jealousy (now, I know this has been discussed, and I know it doesn't necessarily have to do with the status quo of their relationship, but the scene made me suspicious and this is why I feel it's worth mentioning), (3) Inoue's look when Ichigo concerned over an unconscious Rukia, (4) Rukia watching over an unconscious Ichigo (not something big, but something I noticed -- and again, this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with romance), (5) Ichigo and Rukia taking bigger notice of each other than anyone else in a room filled with shinigami they know ("Ichigo..." "Rukia..."), (6) Rukia assuring him that she will always be there to help, (7) Ichigo worrying specifically about Rukia, (8) Rukia's flashback.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I do fully acknowledge Rukia's huge role in the manga, and her close relationship with Ichigo. But the way I see it, the "trend" of romantic scenes w/ Rukia and Ichigo isn't increasing. Kubo has his plate full with the huge cast of secondary characters that were introduced in the SS arc, combined with even more in the HM arc and the ongoing development of the original secondary characters such as Ishida, Chad, Tatsuki, etc... their time is being divided with Rukia's.

Back when it was just Ichigo and Rukia fighting hollow together while trying to keep it a secret to Ichigo's friends and family it was easy to focus on just their interaction together. Rukia (along with Urahara gang and Kon to far lesser extent) were the only people involved in Ichigo's life as a shinigami. And during SS, she was the focus of Ichigo's thoughts as the someone he had to rescue. But now, Ichigo's forced to focus his attention elsewhere and interact with many more people besides just Rukia. The same goes more or less for Orihime, though she currently has the ace card (plotwise) of being the focus/heroine in HM like Rukia was in SS.

You are correct, but this is exactly why I take notice that Ichigo and Rukia's relationship doesn't stand still, even with all this going on.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I don't really agree with this. Her emotions arose because this arc revolves around her. Everything about her character is being explored: her potential, powers, feelings etc. Her feelings about Ichigo are just one of the aspects about her being developed.

Yes, you're right, that was probably one of the few things in her post I disagreed with. ^_^

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Pardon but, Ichigo's lack of response to what? Neither Rukia or Orihime have ever made romantic advance towards Ichigo (that he could be aware of) and he has never responded romantically to either of them. The only time he gets emotional over either of them is if they are in danger.

When someone is interested in you romantically, he or she displays a behaviour that can be recognized as something more than just friendly. Inoue, whom we know is in love with him, blushes, dreams of him, thinks about him a lot, notices every little thing he does, throws him longing looks, smells him (now, this is actually something I find interesting, because for Kubo to give us "his scent" as something Inoue recognizes just shows us how caught up she is with every little detail of him). I agree that Ichigo hasn't responded romantically to either of them ^_^


Now that I look more deeply into things, I find him ending up with either of them unlikely. I think the main reason I kind of want him to end up with Rukia is because of how he was so entirely focused on her in the SS arc. Aaand because I like Rukia better than Inoue. Should I be honest. xD

Originally Posted by monir

It's so difficult to process a thread where the fanciful one-sided view is the prevalent factor from both sides of the argument. Hence, it is always a pleasant surprise to read one of these rare posts that pose an argument in relation to the content without any facts-twisting to fit personal views. Thank you Tyan! I didn't stop reading your post after the first couple of sentence.

It's always a pleasant surprise to read things like this. Thank you for boosting my ego xD