Character Discussion - Kallen

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

A common side effect of ShirLulu shipping. ^^;

Ha ha ha, yeah something like that.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Honestly, Kallen's a very complex character for me. I think I have some kind of deep-rooted psychological issue that's keeping me from enjoying her character to the extent that I should, but I won't go into that.

Aside from that, I really can't think of a sensible reason to not like her. She's badass, kickass and she's got a fine ass. She's one of, if not the most epic pilot on the show. She's got a very powerful sense of justice, honor and loyalty. So yeah, pretty much what everyone else said. I guess the only thing I could hate her for is for being too awesome

Most people hate her for this. And for a certain other-Lelouch reason. I wonder, sometimes people, should not hate the chara, but the staff. Like, do not hate the player, hate the game. <--yep, story of Kallen's hate-life.

[Bonzo]

New story with her tomorrow.
Kallen will uncover Lelouch used the geass on her.

[synaesthetic]

People may hate Kallen for being too awesome, but she doesn't quite fit the definition of a Mary Sue. She isn't perfect, she does lose, bad things do happen to her, she does have a range of emotional responses.

The only thing I don't like about her applies to all of the Black Knights--teaming up with Britannia after spending all that time trying to kill Britannia. But I blame the writers of R2 for that, not the characters.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The only thing I don't like about her applies to all of the Black Knights--teaming up with Britannia after spending all that time trying to kill Britannia. But I blame the writers of R2 for that, not the characters.

actually, she never techniclly teams up with britannia
dont forget that by the last arc, lelouch IS britannia (where as shnizel is his own player, opposing lelouch's britannia)

unlike the other members of the OOBK, she never actually joins in on shnizel's offer (lelouch for japan)
which means she only ends up opposing lelouch AFTER he becomes emperor
which means she never actually STOPS fighting britannia, only that the leader of britannia changes

[synaesthetic]

That's a good point, I'd forgotten that Kallen wasn't in on Ohgi's little backroom dealing.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

actually, she never techniclly teams up with britannia
dont forget that by the last arc, lelouch IS britannia (where as shnizel is his own player, opposing lelouch's britannia)

unlike the other members of the OOBK, she never actually joins in on shnizel's offer (lelouch for japan)
which means she only ends up opposing lelouch AFTER he becomes emperor
which means she never actually STOPS fighting britannia, only that the leader of britannia changes

Actually, Brittania is more of a loose term in the series. It is basically, the "injustice". Something, that Kallen is fighting against, pretty much in the whole series. So yes, technically, she is fighting against that. In literal terms, she is going against Lelouch, while the rest are crapping around, but anyway. lol

[bladeofdarkness]

by the others crapping around
are you talking about lelouch or the OOBK ?

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

by the others crapping around
are you talking about lelouch or the OOBK ?

OOBK, which jumped too fast on the Schneizel wagon, Xing-ke being indecisive most of the times, Ougi only looking to protect his "woman" and other million things. At least, Kallen set for one thing, and she was ready to do it, even if it would hurt her like 84039430 mountains landing on her boobs.
But i am not gonna go on my after-turn-19-BK rant here, so yeah.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

OOBK, which jumped too fast on the Schneizel wagon, Xing-ke being indecisive most of the times, Ougi only looking to protect his "woman" and other million things. At least, Kallen set for one thing, and she was ready to do it, even if it would hurt her like 84039430 mountains landing on her boobs.
But i am not gonna go on my after-turn-19-BK rant here, so yeah.

why not ?
is it that you dont WANT to, or that you feel this isnt the right thread ?

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Most people hate her for this. And for a certain other-Lelouch reason. I wonder, sometimes people, should not hate the chara, but the staff. Like, do not hate the player, hate the game. <--yep, story of Kallen's hate-life.

Well then by that logic we should hate the creators of every single fictional character we dislike

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

People may hate Kallen for being too awesome, but she doesn't quite fit the definition of a Mary Sue. She isn't perfect, she does lose, bad things do happen to her, she does have a range of emotional responses.

The only thing I don't like about her applies to all of the Black Knights--teaming up with Britannia after spending all that time trying to kill Britannia. But I blame the writers of R2 for that, not the characters.

Well, as you said, no one likes a Mary Sue. No one likes a perfect character and, for the most, every character should have their flaws. And yes, Kallen does have her trials and tribulations, but you do have to admit she tends to luck out in the end. I'd say, compared to some other characters on the show, she usually, and in the end, got off pretty good (aside from losing Lelouch of course).

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well then by that logic we should hate the creators of every single fictional character we dislike


Well, as you said, no one likes a Mary Sue. No one likes a perfect character and, for the most, every character should have their flaws. And yes, Kallen does have her trials and tribulations, but you do have to admit she tends to luck out in the end. I'd say, compared to some other characters on the show, she usually, and in the end, got off pretty good (aside from losing Lelouch of course).

I'd argue that given all the shit she must have went through during the last half or R2, she fucking EARNED her happy ending

Spoiler for why it sucks to be kallen:

think about it
she spends a couple of months in britannian prison unsure of whats going to happen to her from one moment to another (one moment she and nunnaly are having a nice talk, the next moment suzaku is trying to drug her and bradly is threatening her with rape/torture)

gets broken out of jail, and within about two hours of being free, her world completely changes
nunnaly dies, lelouch breaks down, C.C is gone, her friends sell lelouch out to their worst enemy, and she almost gets gunned down when trying to protect him
then HE tells her that he had been using her all along, and then after she walks away, he tells her to live on, making her believe that the whole thing was a lie to protect her (coupled with him being saved by the guy who killed urabe)

then she spends another month unsure of where he is and unable to move on without her answer

then when lelouch re-appears, he does so with suzaku by his side as his knight, and takes over the empire they had been fighting against since day one

so she manages to convince her comrades to let her meet him in ashford, under the condition that if she acts like she'd been geassed, they would shoot her
and despite meeting lelouch face to face and talking to him in private, he wont even admit that he knows who she is (even when she kisses him)
then after she walks away feeling like she means nothing to him, he takes the UFN leaders hostage, and conquers japan

so she is left with no choice but to oppose him and resolves to kill him herself because thats the only way to bring an end to everything (despite the fact that she just realized that she loves him)
she almost kills him, but in her hesitation to finish him off, she gets blindsided by C.C and he gets away
she chases after him all the way to the damocles for an epic showdown with suzaku
and despite winning the battle, she loses the war anyway since suzaku managed to disable her before "dying"

she then spends 2 months in jail on death row, along with all of her friends
all the while knowing that since she had known about lelouch's secrets all this time and kept them from the OOBK, she is partly resposible for that fact that all of her friends are going to die soon
and that every man woman and child on earth will suffer lelouch's oppression because of her failure

and THEN, just before she is put to death, she learns that EVERYTHING was a lie,
that lelouch actually was trying to make the world a better place
and that he specificlly kept her out of it to PROTECT HER
and then she is forced to watch him die, while helpless to do anything about it

no matter how you look at it
kallen did NOT luck out on anything

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

I'd argue that given all the shit she must have went through during the last half or R2, she fucking EARNED her happy ending

Spoiler for why it sucks to be kallen:

think about it
she spends a couple of months in britannian prison unsure of whats going to happen to her from one moment to another (one moment she and nunnaly are having a nice talk, the next moment suzaku is trying to drug her and bradly is threatening her with rape/torture)

gets broken out of jail, and within about two hours of being free, her world completely changes
nunnaly dies, lelouch breaks down, C.C is gone, her friends sell lelouch out to their worst enemy, and she almost gets gunned down when trying to protect him
then HE tells her that he had been using her all along, and then after she walks away, he tells her to live on, making her believe that the whole thing was a lie to protect her (coupled with him being saved by the guy who killed urabe)

then she spends another month unsure of where he is and unable to move on without her answer

then when lelouch re-appears, he does so with suzaku by his side as his knight, and takes over the empire they had been fighting against since day one

so she manages to convince her comrades to let her meet him in ashford, under the condition that if she acts like she'd been geassed, they would shoot her
and despite meeting lelouch face to face and talking to him in private, he wont even admit that he knows who she is (even when she kisses him)
then after she walks away feeling like she means nothing to him, he takes the UFN leaders hostage, and conquers japan

so she is left with no choice but to oppose him and resolves to kill him herself because thats the only way to bring an end to everything (despite the fact that she just realized that she loves him)
she almost kills him, but in her hesitation to finish him off, she gets blindsided by C.C and he gets away
she chases after him all the way to the damocles for an epic showdown with suzaku
and despite winning the battle, she loses the war anyway since suzaku managed to disable her before "dying"

she then spends 2 months in jail on death row, along with all of her friends
all the while knowing that since she had known about lelouch's secrets all this time and kept them from the OOBK, she is partly resposible for that fact that all of her friends are going to die soon
and that every man woman and child on earth will suffer lelouch's oppression because of her failure

and THEN, just before she is put to death, she learns that EVERYTHING was a lie,
that lelouch actually was trying to make the world a better place
and that he specificlly kept her out of it to PROTECT HER
and then she is forced to watch him die, while helpless to do anything about it

no matter how you look at it
kallen did NOT luck out on anything

Ah, not in the mood for many tl;dr posts tonight {lol} but yeah, Kallen at least fought with a selfless outlook, so yes, she is the cliche-chara of "dude, imma get my happy ending, cause my ass got off from its place fighting for mama, bro's dream and the world. And i lost the love of my life for this too, daaaammnnn"

Yeah.

[yvj]

Her face when she looked at Lelouch's picture right before she runs off into the world tells you all about her ending.

Bittersweet, with a dash of optimism

[bladeofdarkness]

sky
did you actually READ my post ?

[yvj]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

sky
did you actually READ my post ?

Well Kallen fans are already aware of what she went through.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by yvj

Her face when she looked at Lelouch's picture right before she runs off into the world tells you all about her ending.

Bittersweet, with a dash of optimism

Actually, if someone just saw the ending, they would see a happy and grateful Kallen. It is the extra-materials, that "force" us to insert the "bittersweet"-notion.
But, i guess, the way she says "hey Lelouch" sounds like she wanted for him, to be near her. {and possibly, doing things...you know, like having a nice convo, yeah. Haha.}

eta: no i did not, but i know what would you say, and the gist of it, i just focused on the earn-part. 8D

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

eta: no i did not, but i know what would you say, and the gist of it, i just focused on the earn-part. 8D

i didnt mean earn in terms of what she did
i ment what she WENT THROUGH
it really SUCKED to be her in the second half of R2

[Nobodyman9]

You make a valid argument. But what I can I say? I just don't feel it. Maybe I just can't relate to Kallen or something. As I said, I think there are some pyschological issues involved on my part. I mean, Kallen is a strong girl and even when she was faced with this adversity, I usually got the feeling that her strength and indominable spirit would pull her through. I never got the feeling that she was truly suffering.

Oh, about this one thing though.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

kallen did NOT luck out on anything

Just one example. If Sayoko had come 5 seconds later Kallen would be dead right now.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i didnt mean earn in terms of what she did
i ment what she WENT THROUGH
it really SUCKED to be her in the second half of R2

Being in a wall-ass-jail and having Gino being all "hi hu ha hur" around her and her not being able to kick him to stfu? Yep, sucks to be R2-11-17-turns Kallen. True story.