Fate/kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya 3rei!! Anime Discussion

[FlareKnight]

Not sure I'd want to leave the fate of the world in the hands of the Ainsworths. They may have the goal of saving the world, but can people this messed up really accomplish that? The world may end if they don't take action, but at least these body snatchers wouldn't be the ones deciding how the world is saved. Darius is just plain nuts, Erica is pretty warped, and Angelica is just creepy as heck.

Still, it's a tough question for Illya. How do you put a friend and the world onto a scale? I'm not sure there is a right answer between those options.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Fate/Kalied Liner Prisma Illya!

We got a Notes and Fate Extra reference with the world ending. What is Ainsworth goal? Save the Earth or save humanity? Depending the on the answer it may answer Tanaka's identity whether she is sent by Gaia or Alaya as the prevailing theory is that she may be a Counter Guardian of a sort.

Anyway this shows ones villains to the villains themselves they are the heroes of their own story. Hence Darius going about Legends.

[Dengar]

I will always choose Sakura. Screw the rest of the world.

[quigonkenny]

And so it begins...

Hold on to your butts.

And people talking around the lore not yet revealed in the anime, this is not the time or place for that yet. Let the appropriate discussion be made in the anime first (won't be long now), and then you can mention the unrelated related material.

[Yamada II]

Episode 8

So Illya, after fighting with Rin and Luvia and then getting torn apart, literally, gets her body back. And then she fights Angelica, Luvia and Rin. That's pretty unfair since she's just one loli against three bishoujos.

And they discover the reason behind the Ainsworths wanting the Holy Grail. They want to save this dying parallel world and the Holy Grail will do that for them. Their story has some truth since obviously this parallel world doesn't look normal and Gil is also telling the same story. In this world, the Ainsworths are becoming the heroes and Illya and friends opposing them are the villains. Illya and friends are given a difficult choice to make – they either save Miyu and let the world die, or they don't save Miyu and let the Ainsworths fix the world. These are the only choices because there's really nothing else that can be done. They don't have another Holy Grail to give them since Illya isn't the Grail (or she might give herself up, Idk) and the one in the mountains was used up with Gil reincarnating. The world really is dying but whether the Ainsworths are really planning on saving the world is questionable because obviously Darius doesn't look like he is planning on becoming a hero.

Based on this story, Tanaka could be the ones responsible for the state this world is in. But that's a bit unlikely so Tanaka could be part of some other strong magic family who knows that the Ainsworths are upto no good and they want to stop them. But then what will happen about this dying world then? They would then probably have some alternative method.

Another thing was that Illya was pissed at the Ainsworths for treating humans like tools – Miyu is no more than a tool and Illya was also being treated the same. But then Angelica brought up a pretty good point. They were using humans like tools to reach their goals, but isn't Illya doing the same thing by using those heroic spirits to achieve her goal? She was using Saber and the other spirits as tools without their consent even though they were once humans too. With this, and with their supposed mission to save the world being told, Illya is being forced to question her actions as to whether she's doing the right thing or not, whether she really is a good guy or if there's no difference between her and the bad guys. This is interesting.

Based on the next episode preview, Illya will cosplay as a cute assassin and she will have second thoughts about saving Miyu but Kuro will be determined to save Miyu no matter what probably because "f*** this world". Now all that will be left after the next episode would be for Illya to cosplay as berserker, although, based on the cosplaying so far in this series, I wonder how they would make berserker Illya cute. They can't beat the sexiness of caster Illya, that's for sure. Interesting. The other stuff is interesting too...

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Yamada II

They don't have another Holy Grail to give them since Illya isn't the Grail (or she might give herself up, Idk)

Nope Illya and Kuro still have their wishcraft. They are still the Holy Grail of their world.

Based on this story, Tanaka could be the ones responsible for the state this world is in. But that's a bit unlikely so Tanaka could be part of some other strong magic family who knows that the Ainsworths are upto no good and they want to stop them. But then what will happen about this dying world then? They would then probably have some alternative method.

Nah the way the Ainsworth are presented are heretics. I get the feeling Tanaka may be a Counter Guardian. Question is which part of the World sent her, Gaia or Alaya? Alaya would protect humanity. Gaia would protect the world but not necessarily humanity.

[Dengar]

I thought counter guardians were supposed to be less... Visible. Not to mention they are supposed to save the world, not kill the guys trying to save it.

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I thought counter guardians were supposed to be less... Visible. Not to mention they are supposed to save the world, not kill the guys trying to save it.

Depends on the side.
Term "Counter Guardian" refers to forces with both sides of "the world".

Alaya's counter guardians exist to prevent destruction of humanity as a whole.
Gaia's counter guardians exist to prevent destruction of the planet.

Also neither side really works in accordance to human logic or human definition of "saving". Its nothing noble. So whether either of the sides would go after Ainsworths depends on what exactly they are trying to do, which the show has yet to reveal.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Not sure I'd want to leave the fate of the world in the hands of the Ainsworths. They may have the goal of saving the world, but can people this messed up really accomplish that? The world may end if they don't take action, but at least these body snatchers wouldn't be the ones deciding how the world is saved. Darius is just plain nuts, Erica is pretty warped, and Angelica is just creepy as heck.

Don't forget the hyper-violent and murderous Beatrice, who makes PMMM's Kyouko and Nanoha's Vita seem like peace-loving pacifists by comparison.

Episode 8's big reveal does pack a good impact, and it definitely complicates matters. It does present a strong moral dilemma for Illya and friends.

That being said, calling the Ainsworth and their allies "Heroes of Justice" is a bit much. Their goal is noble, and Angelica definitely has a point, but the way Team Ainsworth goes about things is hardly my idea of "heroic". At best, I'd consider them anti-heroes fighting for a good cause.

Even then, some of what they've done is very cruel and nasty when you stop to think about it. Putting someone's mind into a stuffed doll sounds funny (and is funny to watch in Illya's case, lol), but it's actually one of the most horrible fates imaginable for the person now stuck inside a stuffed doll. Darius' treatment of Miyu is also very creepy/disturbing. A real hero making a hard decision should have a better bedside manner, if you catch my drift.

Still, moral ambiguity has certainly been achieved! Illya has some tough questions to grapple with, and it'll be interesting to see how she handles everything.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That being said, calling the Ainsworth and their allies "Heroes of Justice" is a bit much. Their goal is noble, and Angelica definitely has a point, but the way Team Ainsworth goes about things is hardly my idea of "heroic". At best, I'd consider them anti-heroes fighting for a good cause.

That term was used because it's a major thematic phrase in the Nasuverse, going back to FSN, usually referring to Shirou, but generally referring to anyone who "does the right thing", especially if they're misguided (see: Kerry in FZ). Gil was the one who used it—and did so ironically—because even as a kid, he's still a smartass. He's fully aware that whatever the validity of their cause, the Ainsworths are at best Knights Templar, and that the people he's talking to will in no way see them as "the good guys".

[Dengar]

^Obviously the term "hero of justice" is used because it's a familiar term in the Fate universe.

And it's kinda similar anyway. I recall that defining scene for Kiritsugu at the end where he was presented with case after case where he had to sacrifice few to save many. Even the one presenting these cases didn't realise how far Kiritsugu was willing to go to to uphold his ideals.

I think these guys think they're motivated by something similar, but what's actually going on is they have that alien thought pattern where they do not value people's lives at all, but rather see human beings as insignificant. They think purely in numbers and statistics. Kiritsugu actually values life.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Dengar

^Obviously the term "hero of justice" is used because it's a familiar term in the Fate universe.

And it's kinda similar anyway. I recall that defining scene for Kiritsugu at the end where he was presented with case after case where he had to sacrifice few to save many. Even the one presenting these cases didn't realise how far Kiritsugu was willing to go to to uphold his ideals.

I think these guys think they're motivated by something similar, but what's actually going on is they have that alien thought pattern where they do not value people's lives at all, but rather see human beings as insignificant. Kiritsugu actually values life.

Nope. You guys almost got me into this discussion, and we don't need to be having it yet in this thread. Honestly, it's so integral with and dependent upon greater Nasuverse lore (not to mention Prillya lore that we haven't really encountered yet) that I don't know if it will ever be appropriate to discuss it in this anime-only thread.

If someone wants to take it to the manga thread, I'm game, but I'm bugging out of this train of thought before the mods decide to derail it.

[Dengar]

Weren't you the one who brought it up? I didn't even know it has to do with manga spoilers, having not read the manga and all.

[HandofFate]

Erika deserved that spanking.
she should get punished more often.

[Stark700]

Illya's assassin form is awesome, I like it. Good to see Kuro fighting again as well.

So an episode with some info dump but the real hard part was Illya's decision about saving the world or Illya. That was a pretty intense conversation imo.

[The Green One]

Saving the world or Miyu you mean?

[Ernietheracefan]

So the Ainsworths are the Anti-Spiral, Illya & the gang are Team Gurren, & Miyu is Nia..

Quite ironic since Darius is voiced by Katsuyuki-san..xD

[FlareKnight]

You know sometimes we do need an absolutely optimistic stance in a situation like this. True enough that Angelica and the Ainsworths have shut themselves into the choice of one or the other. That you have to choose between saving the one or saving the many. In a sense Illya really inherits the ideals of a guy we are familiar with. Aim to save everyone and make everyone happy.

Maybe it's not possible, but certainly better than shutting themselves off from even trying. And anything to get Illya's head in the game. They won't get to choose anything if they are killed here. They have to win to even have a chance at what they want.

Also kind of like Kuro being strong on her choice. It was thanks to others that she's even alive right now. The choice by Kiritsugu and Irisviel to shut down the Holy Grail War. The efforts by Illya to have Kuro wish for her own existence and even Miyu fighting against Bazette like that. It was thanks to individuals that she is here now. So she'll fight to save those individuals she loves.

[ReddyRedWolf]

More Notes references with the Grain replacing Mana.

Know what there is also fridge horror at Mana disappearing inexplicably. The Kaleido sticks produce infinite Mana by accessing infinite parallel worlds.

[quigonkenny]

So once again, they adapt two chapters, 18 and 19, into one episode. Most of the rest of the season should be action, so this should be the last episode we can say that for. I'm still guessing they'll get all the way up to the end of initial release Chapter 29 (don't know where that puts it in tankoubon numbers), since that's really the only place left they can reasonably stop. At a guess that means:

Episode 10 - ch 20-23 (Yes, what every manga reader is waiting for happens next episode)
Episode 11 - ch 23-26 (So awesome a scene, they'll repeat it to start the next episode)
Episode 12 - ch 27-29 (the grand finale)

We'll probably get a bit of Chapter 30 at the end, maybe over the credits. Either that or something slightly anime-original (nothing storyline-changing) to bridge it to Chapter 30 in a shorter manner.

EDIT: Just watched the preview again and there is actually one shot (involving Kuro) that could only be from Chapter 23 or after. So getting that far next episode is probably certain, unless they change the order of a few things (which they could probably get away with).