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View Poll Results: F/SN UBW TV - Episode 20 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 35 | 63.64% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 15 | 27.27% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 2 | 3.64% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 5.45% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll |
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2015-05-29, 14:15 | Link #202 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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Also, that line about close combat somewhat contradicts the way I've read a lot of stuff in the VN.
His tracing ability does not seem to be necessarily limited to swords, or even close range weapons. For starters, Archer is often found conjuring a bow. I find the mere notion that one's special ability is "limited to one's origin". Is that really how origin works? I thought it just makes it easier to weave magecraft that utilizes one's origin, and makes certain "signature moves" possible, as it were. |
2015-05-29, 16:42 | Link #204 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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He can wave a sword around, sure. But if your question is "Is he a skilled swordsman?" then no. His MO involves overpowering the enemy with weapons that are more powerful than they can handle, or just skewer them with tons of noble phantasms. Ergo, he is very crude and doesn't really do "combat".
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2015-05-29, 17:36 | Link #206 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Quote:
His affinity for swords, however, does make it easier to trace swords. If I recall, it's about three times harder for him to trace anything else, at the bare minimum. |
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2015-05-29, 18:49 | Link #207 |
Senior Member
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Shirou can project anything. He can only trace swords and the like.
Projection is a magecraft that is probably rather simple, since everyone seems to mention to him that its a useless ability when they notice it. It produces a hollow copy, probably not particularly functional, but obviously something solid enough that Shirou considers it a successful cast. Projection comes up at two major points in the VN - one, where he mentions that whenever he fails his Reinforcement during practice, he "calms himself down" by doing some easy projection. Two, we see in the fight against Berserker in the forest in Fate route, Shirou Projects a bow and arrow, and it is expectedly useless, Berserker entirely ignores him and it accomplishes nothing. Tracing is limited to close combat weapons, with a strong preference for swords. This is because Tracing pulls the weapon out from UBW, it doesn't simply create it out of thin air. This is capable of actually producing things of Noble Phantasm quality, it recreates the original materials, experience, and history of the weapon, and affords Shirou a portion of the original wielders' skill and strength. So with that being said, even Tracing isn't really limited to swords. After all, there's Rho Aius. However, UBW was fundamentally designed to produce swords, so producing anything else, while possible, consumes two or three times the amount of mana. And, according to Nasu, this is where the limitation of fundamentally close combat weapons only comes in. |
2015-05-29, 22:01 | Link #210 |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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From what I know, I'd guess that Shirou would theoretically be able to Trace the jewels, but it might not do anyone much good. Even assuming Shirou has enough mana, considering they would invoke the 3x non-sword penalty, anything Traced eventually fades away, and given Shirou's skill, it doesn't take long. I don't know how long it takes Rin to charge her jewels, so they might disappear before she's been able to put enough mana into them to be useful. Archer would likely have better luck, given his much greater experience and potential power.
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2015-05-30, 02:17 | Link #211 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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Someone has to supply the mana to put into it. And it's not going to be Shirou. And as far as I can tell, those gems tend to be charged with something akin to a life time of mana. (not literally a life time, but you know what I mean)
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2015-05-30, 03:33 | Link #212 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Quote:
Last edited by Lorhand; 2015-05-30 at 04:09. |
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2015-05-30, 07:55 | Link #215 |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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He only witnesses it when Archer offered himself to Caster. It would have been different if he had been involved in the battle in the house (VN)/on the bridge (anime) before Saber's contract was nullified. In short: He never had a chance to analyse it before he started his troian horse strategy.
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2015-05-30, 07:57 | Link #216 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Pretty much. If you assume Archer's war was almost identical to the Fate route (all indications are that it was very similar, at the very least), he only ever met Caster for about 3 seconds before she got skewered by Gilgamesh, and she never revealed Rule Breaker.
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2015-05-30, 08:46 | Link #217 |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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Archer knew about her identity though, so I doubt their meeting was that short. That doesn't mean she ever got the opportunity to use rule breaker though. She can only use it if she can manage to get close to a servant, and her being a terrible melee fighter, that doesn't happen very often.
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2015-05-30, 10:16 | Link #218 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 40
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Whether or not he was able to trace Rule Breaker isn't really the issue here. And in fact Shirou traces it in HF without having ever seen it.
The issue here is, if he traced rule breaker and set himself free, then he wouldn't be able to do the whole gambit thing where he gained Caster's sort-of-trust so he can subsequently kill her and set up Saber as Rin's new servant. Killing Shirou isn't the only thing on his mind. |
2015-05-30, 12:22 | Link #220 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Why would he want to drop his effective time limit for doing so from the beginning? That's not very practical. He also had to do it when Shirou doesn't have a Servant or he'd be toast. By the time that happened, he was already leashed, and twice so, in a sense.
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