2007-01-13, 00:44 | Link #201 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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My main grudge against Suzaku stems primarily from what he said to Lelouch after the Black Knights were unveiled. It's one thing to leave rescuing hostages and whatnot to the authorities, but it's another to let the incompetant authorities (At least in that situation) handle a crisis which it clearly wouldn't have handled well.
Suzaku's excuse? "They're shitty NOW, but it's fine if they get better, right?" What about the people who DIE because of their incompetance/ways until they get better? Suzaku clearly dislikes Zero's needless bloodshed, but it's obvious he knows that people will die until he can get the Empire to reform. The sheer hypocrisy of his beliefs really gets at me. |
2007-01-13, 00:52 | Link #202 | ||||||||||||
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First of all, the Lancelot would likely not be used at all. This is just fanciful imagining, of course, but let’s consider the facts: 1) Clovis was on track to annihilate Ougi’s group. 2) Cornelia was on track to annihilate all groups. 3) Clovis didn’t want to use the Lancelot until almost his entire assault force was wiped out. If he does, he’s showing the Emperor not only how incompetent he himself is, but also how resourceful and useful Schniezel is. If I didn’t know better, I’d have thought this was Schniezel’s plan to discredit both Clovis and Cornelia: after all, what better way to show how weak the two are than to have them saved by an Eleven? 4) Cornelia didn’t want to use the Lancelot initially, either. The only possible argument I see here is the fact that Clovis was not half the general his sister was, and thus he’d run into trouble with the JLF. More to the point, I believe it’s most likely that without the Lancelot, Suzaku might never have achieved a single thing. I happen to think Lulu’s a bloody twit. However, the topic is: Do the Ends Justify the Means. I chose to focus my comparison on the Means both characters uses. I believe Lulu’s has a much higher chance of success than Suzaku’s. Quote:
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And yes, his superior is dead. Killed by Lulu. Does it seem likely to you that, had he not been offed, he’d have ever recognized Suzaku? He’s obviously racist: he calls them beasts, for crying out loud. And racists aren’t easily swayed by pretty words and actions. Britannia seems, first and foremost, to be a military dictatorship. It moves according to the will of a man who obviously believes in the tenets of Social Darwinism. A number designation is the signifier of a defeated nation – a country full of weaklings, in other words. Perhaps even genetically inferior, to the Purist. After all they had the sakuradite, but didn’t develop the Frames that won the war so easily. And I commend Suzaku for his efforts. But I can’t help but add that it must be lovely to have absolutely everything magically going your way. Quote:
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The comparison actually makes sense, but I won’t bother explaining since it’s a potentially incendiary topic. For a better comparison, how about the Native Americans and Colonials? Or any of the ones suggested by the poster, coefficient, up above. Or, for slightly more peaceful comparisons: let's take the Suffrage and the Civil Rights Movements. how long did it take for equality to take root, in a democratic nation? In the US, officials are elected by the people: thus, they have a vested interest in promoting whatever is popular at the moment. This is not the case for the Empire. The Emperor could care less what commoners think and want. He probably doesn't care much about the nobility, either. Quote:
Firstly, we don’t know why Schniezel allows an injured Eleven to pilot his new mech. But here’s my crackpot theory for you: The Emperor is a firm believer in social Darwinism. The strong dominate the weak. Always. Such is nature, and what is good for nature is good enough for him. Now imagine the Second Prince. A bright enough man, if what the characters say can be believed. Why does he allow an Eleven to pilot the newest Frame? Simple. Whatever honors an Eleven can gain is negated by the fact that he will always be a Number. A Britannian pilot can complicate things and actually rise to a position in which he can be a threat. What can an Eleven do, in the current political climate? Now let’s consider Clovis and Cornelia, who are arguably his competitors. What does it tell the Emperor if these two need to rely on an Eleven – a son of a defeated nation, a Number – to win their battles for them? It not only makes them look weak and stupid, it makes Schniezel look strong for building the Lancelot and fielding it. And before anyone says anything: even without the Geas ability, Lulu could have done damage to the Empire. He's a bloody prince, even if disinherited. If anything, that just makes him more desireable as a tool. With a court as cutthroat as the Empire's seems to be, I can only assume there are some families that might want to use an exiled prince as a figurehead once the current emperor dies. The only reason he can't/won't is that his sister likely would not have survived the attempt. However, this is all conjecture. |
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2007-01-13, 00:53 | Link #203 | |||||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
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If you still don't understand this, then you will never understand that people can change for the better. If so, you have already completely denied the Britannians any chance for reform. If this principle applies in your real life, then that means that you also don't expect people to change if you re-educate them about the better things about compromise and cooperation rather than pure violence. A very close-minded principle that is the cause of most wars in our world or even the Geass world. Quote:
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However, the Empire's ideal stands along the lines of the "strong devouring the weak", not the usefulness of people as tools. So I don't get where you can just accuse me of supporting the Empire's "survival of the fittest" philosophy. What I said was a realistic approach to how people go around this world. Quote:
Yes, hypocrisy, indeed. Quote:
If Suzaku gains Cornelia, and even the 2nd Prince's (even the Emperor's), utmost trust, then he can start influencing changes in the government with his sense of justice for equality of all and suppression of distrust/discrimination. This isn't as impossible as it sounds and this happens quite frequently in monarchies in our history. Quote:
The Nazis would've never let me in their army had that happened and I'd probably be in a concentration camp. To change a system, one condition must be set: A person must be able to enter said system to change things. The Britannian Imperial Army has this condition for Numbers. The Nazis do not, especially since their main principle is for mass murder and annihilation. The Britannian Army kills and massacres people for military objectives, not for overglorified nonsense ideologies. They won't kill you if killing won't bring any victory to them. Nazis just killed. Quote:
Area 11 has already been a colony for 7 years running. At this time, we already know that, at the very least, there has already been 7 more areas overrun by the Imperials. (Area 18 = Mideast?) Fighting invaders is something that cannot be avoided. In fact, I encourage battling to the death so the only the victors will be left behind and all semblance of the old rule will have disappeared. Makes for easier assimilation. But when a country has already been beaten, and when said invaders are trying to improve the economy of said conquered region, further resistance is only countering any more development which can help the conquered peoples. The war already ended 7 years ago with a resounding Britannian victory. Is there even any more need to further distrust and discord when the fruits of progress can be obtained by everyone in exchange for the loss of silly national pride? |
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2007-01-13, 01:07 | Link #204 | |
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On the topic of progress: Yes, infrastructure and such are improved, but to whose benefit? Historically this was always to the benefit of the local transplanted oligarchy from the homeland and perhaps the local chieftain or emir or raja. Overall the lives of ordinary Japanese are -much- worse off under the Britannian regime than under the previous government, and they aren't seriously safer either (the Chinese federation is a world power, remember, and they're just across the Sea of Japan). I figure the people reaping the benefits of "progress" are the Britannian East India Company, Sakuradite Extraction Division or whoever as well as the 12 dudes of the local quisling committie that is apparently the intermediary between the servile Eleven population and the conquerors. Conquest very rarely works to the benefit of the conquered; the only example I can think of is maybe the Italians under Rome because they became the heartland of a vast empire, and eventually citizenship was extended to them (but not for many generations to come). In summation: though the "economy" may be better, little of that prosperity reaches the ordinary Japanese, and likely would not due to the inherent racism of the administration, the Britannian outlook, etc. The only Elevens likely to benefit from the increased Sakuradite production or whatever are the wealthy merchant families who have become Britannian citizens. For the rest of the country, it's lose your dignity to work as a hot dog seller in the walled-off Britannian districts or live in a bunch of ruins. This is not progress. To make yet another historical comparison, think China under the humiliating treaties with Europe. They forced open the ports of China and allowed free trade therein; this is arguably a good thing economically, but the only people benefiting were the transplanted European merchant families and Chinese merchant oligarchs, though I suppose it guaranteed the Chinese stoner community a cheap source of Opium. Within those European protectorates the natives were subject to constant racism (example: signs on restaurants saying "no dogs or chinese allowed"), etc. The analogy is not perfect but I think it fits this example. |
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2007-01-13, 01:45 | Link #205 | ||||||||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Suzaku doesn't need to be a king maker. He just has to have connections to be able to push the changes that he wants. And I don't really think that the Empire is an anarchic regime. It's power mainly lies in the one man. And just because a predator shows up, that doesn't mean that the ruler of said regime isn't strong enough to defeat the new threat easily. Quite a pessimistic view you have there if you ask me, as theorists are theorists after all. Action is what moves this world, not theories. Quote:
And yes, most likely, most of the people of the Britannian ruling class aren't teddy bears, but Zero and the people from Kyoto aren't teddy bears either. Quote:
Defeatist attitudes really make me feel sour, so sorry. But murder in the middle of the battlefield does not occur, for innocents do not exist in a battle zone. To think that innocents exist in a battlefield will cost a soldier their lives. I am not sugarcoating this truth for your sake. Quote:
Especially since not a lot of people reply to everything I say, doing the same for everyone is quite fair, ne? Quote:
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Suzaku just kills his enemies. He also denounces the injustices committed by others but as of now, his hands are tied. Until he can get where he wants to be on, he has no choice but to kill his enemies. Both of them denounce each other's injustices while killing people. It's just that Lulu also kills those who should be his allies to make his plans work like they were nothing more than mere pawns. Quote:
Suzaku is working through a framework. He can't just jump through and ask suddenly for what he wants. Quote:
Just like what the woman said to a guerrila in the early eps: "It's your fault that this has happened to us.", before the guerrila said "Shut up!!!" But it IS true that the shitty discrimination exists which makes the Numbers feel shitty as well. Suzaku is working to eliminate this discrimination by changing the government. However, discrimination will not stop until Suzaku defeats the distrust that is sowed by the insurgency among the Britannian populace. P.S. More replies coming |
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2007-01-13, 01:52 | Link #206 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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You claim that the Britannians would trust the Numbers if only the insurgence were removed? What, other than the fact that Britannians have stolen their land, dug up their sacred mountain as a mine, bombed their cities into rubble and taken all their rights away? Why WOULD any Britannians trust the Numbers, when the Numbers have every reason to hate them? The Britannians know they are in the wrong, and that's why they don't believe in justice. To believe in justice would be condemning themselves. Instead, it is official policy that "might makes right", as Euphie mentioned.. "We spilled blood to conquer them, so we have earned the right to rule over them". (Note that Euphie doesn't really believe this... This is just standard mantra for Britannians to justify invading everyone they want.)
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2007-01-13, 02:18 | Link #207 | |
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There's no reason the JLF SHOULD be his allies. There's no formal agreement between them and whatnot. There's nothing that binds them together aside from the whole "Enemy of my enemy is my ally", which is a bit of an iffy thing in the first place especially when it's between two groups of insurgents. Though Zero blowing up the ship may not have been the most effective way of doing it, since there's probably countless other scenarios with different outcomes and whatnot, it served to be a good distraction. First it takes out the enemy's aquatic Knightmares and also messes up the Knightmares on the ground, giving enough time for Zero and crew to sail across and deploy. Anyway, I'm going back to lurking. I hate these kind of arguments since it's more or less "X does y because of z" that goes back and forth. |
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2007-01-13, 02:45 | Link #208 | |||||||||||||||||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
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You're being too tough on Suzaku for his dependence intertwined fate with Zero, while you also seem to conveniently forget Lelouch's dependence on the Geas and C.C. to make his plans succeed as quickly as they have. Quote:
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And also, without the Geas or C.C., Lulu might never have been able to achieve anything as well. Trying to discredit the characters by using their plot devices is kind of... suck. If both of them didn't have any plot devices, this series would have ended in one episode. Quote:
(If you ask me, it's even more ridiculous to ask such a question, since right and wrong changes for every person since we all live in a gray world.) Quote:
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Just because you're different one day doesn't mean you can't change the next. That is what assimilation is for. And the kind of assimilation that Suzaku wants is one where all his fellow Elevens can be treated as equals and partners in the Empire that he is serving now. Quote:
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Understand that based on how Suzaku is built as an HB, that is the only thing he can do. Quote:
As I have posted somewhere before, there must be a condition to be able to make changes in the system. You must be able to get in it. The Indian-Colonial thing had no room for the Natives to get in. Hence, the reservations. Britannia, however, has room where a person can enter the government to make changes. A very distinct difference. Quote:
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Also, I won't comment on crackpot theories anymore as my arms are writhing from responding to probably a dozen people. Quote:
... that's very far. Quote:
Suzaku is fighting for that to happen. But more distrust is sowed in the hearts of Britannians by the insurgents that do their best to aggravate a situation where instead of Elevens are being trusted, they are distrusted even more. That is why Suzaku wants to crush the insurgents as quickly as he can. One side has to win for the fighting to stop, and of course he'll fight on his side. The development will only occur if the conquered are trusted and respected for their achievements. Which, again, is where Suzaku's coming from. |
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2007-01-13, 02:57 | Link #209 | ||||
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- What I try to tell you is that the reason why Numbers are treated like creatures is not because they are less capable. It is just because they are Numbers. See in the anime, a honor Britanian is lower than Britainian. Why ? Not because his ability is lower, but just because he was a Number. - Do you know why the empress was “weak” ? Because she was not powerful, not because whether she can pilot the Lancelot or not (just kidding). You said “since he probably has the backing of the 2nd, 3rd, and the 6th in line to the throne. Quite high in the ranks of royalty if you ask me”: No, he only get the backing for him to be used more, not for him to raise idea (if then, except Euphie, the other prince/princess will want him to be dead meat). Even realizing his usefulness, and using him more, Cornelia won’t supporting his ideal. They are different thing. - If you say he only needs “little improvement” in behavior toward 11s, yes, right, struggling all his life with a careful attitude may achieve it. But it is just micracle that he didn’t, and won’t kill ppl– directly and indirectly. If you say because they are his enemy, then ok, you understand the point of where he belongs to (so Suzaku, don’t say like you are good and innocent !!) Quote:
And I will not “abandon those who are useless” to me (in my example, they are not only those I hate, but they also attempt to do harm to me). Have you done voluntary work ? Have you give money to poor people ? Do you need them to be useful to you ? - My argument is to show the differentiation between usefulness with others – love, trust, respect, to support my idea that proving you are useful won’t make ppl listen to you, or necessary change their hatre toward you. In other side, people (except you and the Britanian) won’t hate/abandon others just because they are useless to you. - To the Nazis thing: ok, you see the Britanian different from the Nazis. By: + Britanian having no “racialism” concept. Wrong !! + Nazis having no “Darwin” concept. Wrong for the 2nd time. I’m tired with this long long topic with everytime same same basis (that Britanian is not really bad empire) already, so if you want to focus the discussion more about it, plz open a new topic and we will discuss it Quote:
- Do you think Britanian solders only kill resisters ? They feel free to kill innocents. And for civilian, didn’t you see the life of 11s being bullied by the Britanian ones ? Do you think they deserved it because some of their fellows are resisters ? Like I said, you seems to willingly accept your fate to knee down (if it happens). I’m different, I dun wanna be treated like a sheep. TO ME, PEACE IS IMPORTANT, BUT NOT AS IMPORTANT AS BASIC HUMAN RIGHT. If you still think that the Numbers’ lives is acceptable, plz open new topic. This may be “Britanian is not a bad empire, and the Numbers should behave better” one then ^_^ Edit to add this: Quote:
Good. Good. That's exactly what he really is in people's mind. Suzaku, you are no different from your enemy. Then don't act all high and mighty, ok !!!!!!!!!! Last edited by antheonoileo; 2007-01-13 at 03:26. |
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2007-01-13, 03:00 | Link #210 | ||||||
ハイパー武器英雄
Join Date: Jan 2007
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To believe in their justice, they would condemn no one but the weak for their inability to fend off the Imperial hammer. But most Britannians' sense of justice allows for people like Suzaku to show that Numbers can be respected and trusted. If Suzaku follows through, he could open a path for his fellow Numbers, never mind just the Elevens. Quote:
Both men think that they are killing for a better cause and that the blood on their hands are nothing more than a means for their eventual goal of changing the world as they see it. Quote:
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Which is why there's a lot of people dying in this world right now. Everyone thinks they're right, and that justice is on their side.. |
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2007-01-13, 03:19 | Link #211 | ||
Fate/ Stay Night
Join Date: Jun 2003
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But Lelouch knows that killing innocents whom does not want to kill is wrong, and in Ep13, we see him struggling with coming to terms with that fact. In the end, he accepts the deaths of the innocent people, but won't stop fighting because then all their deaths would have been for nothing.
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2007-01-13, 03:26 | Link #212 |
Knightmare
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nederland
Age: 36
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The 80%I said was something sad about to Darlton when he asked about the situation, they sad the situation of the army.
Also even if JFL were defeated is doesn't mater too the Black Nights or to Britannia why because to Britannia the order of the Black Knights are the most dangerous. The afthermate and at the end of eps 12 Cornellia crearly stated this was a loss because of what it did to her army. For the Order of the Black Knights the damage is minimum. Also something about Suzaku, he was in the first eps a small groundtroup, could it be he killed at least some 11. If that would be the case he would be the greatest hypocrite there is. |
2007-01-13, 03:34 | Link #213 | ||||||||||||||||
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The Nazis do NOT have the condition that allows conquered people to change the system from within like Britannia does. Quote:
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The thing is, it's not what you think is important, it's actually what the characters think (who we are watching) that's important to understand. Quote:
And even if Britannia is a bad empire now, even empires can change for the better. (which is the core message of Suzaku) vs. This empire is useless and will never change, so discard it and trash it. ( which is the core message of Lelouche) |
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2007-01-13, 03:42 | Link #214 | |||
ハイパー武器英雄
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Also, the second quote in your post wasn't from me. It was from a guy I quoted. Quote:
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2007-01-13, 03:49 | Link #215 | ||
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anyway i may or may not reply in the morning, it's late edited for the sake of completeness: Quote:
tl;dr: Suzaku can't implement any change whatsoever without getting his hands dirty with the blood of Britannian nobility. While struggling in vain to work the system from inside is admirable to some extent, it is not when you are aiding directly in the oppression of an entire nation (i cite again the shinjuku incident, where the resistance fighters were fighting soldiers who were liquidating the ghetto by mass extermination). whether or not he has actually killed civilians himself is beside the point; the lancelot, by demonstration and by the ace pilot law of anime, is easily worth an army of sutherlands/burais, and he is turning that against the people of japan, because -that's what an occupation army does-. |
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2007-01-13, 04:06 | Link #216 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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I'm sorry but if you say suzaku is trying to be an useful Honored Britanian so that he can change their perspective, does he think the same as the Britanian ? Is he then also a fan of the theory of goodess ?
I mean, when the Britanians tell "Well, we change our mind. Numbers can be very loyal and useful. We need to treat those useful ones a little bit better" will he say "No, usefulness is not important. Please treat all Numbers better" ? Will it then contradict with his way of climbing up the system ? I have to ask it because of what I read in the posts. In my opinion, he doesn't really think that much. He may has some orient, yet he doesn't consider clearly what to do. I don't think he is like what Nanaya told, already chose to crush the other side to bring peace. If then he will be no different from Zero. |
2007-01-13, 04:06 | Link #217 |
Knightmare
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nederland
Age: 36
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Nanaya I can't believe you. Losing at least 80% of you're forces during a operation is bad now mather how you look at it. After the Order showed up the main enemy was not JLF but the Order. The losses of Cornellia's army were great especially comperd to the losses the Order suffert. Those people hoe sad it was a victory were only saying that because they were afraid of Cornellia.
What happend her was something that happend against Zaft when they attack Alaska in Gundam Seed. Even if the EA lost a lot of people the damage to Zafts army were greater, why because they lost most of there attacking forces, and wars can't been won with only defending. |
2007-01-13, 04:29 | Link #218 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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I don't think Suzaku has already thought as far as you (willing to chose the bloody way), but yes if he has "darkly grey" thoughts like yours and willing to use some tactics to gain power (not just simple recognization of usefulness) , I think there is still oppotunity for him to gain sth big. And then I will not hate him like I am now.
Ok so we have 2 anti-hero chars now - one think himself is half an evil and one think he is an angel. Both of them chose bloody means to gain good ends, one feel a bit regretful and one feel angry with the other. Then does the end justify the means ? "Yes. If you disagree, see my big canon." I QUIT Last edited by antheonoileo; 2007-01-13 at 06:33. |
2007-01-13, 05:24 | Link #219 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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nanaya...... why cant you accept a simple truth proven by history and sciencefiction usual convention. A country ruled by a dictator and a small circle(here the nobles), totally racists, cruel, selfish, stupid, and whatever other horrible trait cannot be changed only by one of the subhumans (in the emperor and the majority of the nobles mind) showing "good manners" or by giving morale lessons like "we can be all happy together if we work together" (my god.... Did I really write that??). It s just impossible and its not weak minded...... We are not talking about changing the point of view of a misbehaved kid or even a criminal.
As for the exemples its very simple: in Europe where there was a lot of monarchies with influent noble courts who didnt give a damn about the population(and here we are talking about their own population, not some colonial population), the only way to change things were for the french to kill their king in the revolution and after that all the other countries tried that too (Well in some countries like england they didnt kill the king but weakened greatly his power against his will I may guess). Second, there must be a reason why all the colonies in history never lasted long. All got freed after a certain time because tere is always trouble in a colony even when there is no racist emotion. Of course you migth say if there was a lot of suzakus in the colony, things migth have be different.......I will only say maybe and try to show you the ineptie of suzaku s goal by other examples. Now some really simple questions: -In World War II do you think there ougth to be a suzaku (or more god help us) in France that should have tried to show the example by working in the nazies army and destroying all the rebellions group in France? You can say that the nazies are different than the britanians, and I would only say the difference is that the nazi wanted to exterminate more people. But they treated france correctly (more correctly than the britannians are treating the japanese even) and believed in the theory of the stong against the weak like a certain CG king. Another example is Star wars (its not realist but CG isnt a real life situation anyways). Would you really applause(praise, admire, say he s rigth or whatever) a suzaku like person who isnt human and join the imperial army, then get to use a totally new space craft, than kick the ass of han solo and capture skywalker than crush the rebellion and act like the best possible soldiers. Do you think that the emperor and all the other powerful people of the empire(generals and governors) would look up on this suzaku like alien and suddenlyy try to change the system,even thougth the emperor and all the powerful people are known to be cruel, selfish crazy for some, and totally hate/despise aliens......... I dont think so............ nanaya if you can just truthfully answer to all these well I ll just find other examples to show that suzaku s goal are just plain impossible in CG's universe. |
2007-01-13, 08:00 | Link #220 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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I am in no mood to read all that above. I honestly am not in such a mood, nor do I have the time. So I skimmed through the above, and I'll spew a few random stuff as well.
With my position in a more neutral situation (I'm quite neutral about Suzaku; I neither like nor hate him), I'd like to point out that the topic under discussion here is not whether or not the Britannian Empire is evil, but whether or not Suzaku is a horrible character. I believe neither for the moment. Indeed, the Britannian Empire at the moment is corrupt, its Emperor moreorless a jackass. On the other hand, the Britannians don't complain. As far as I'm concerned, most Britannians are treated rather well by the government, and it is the Numbers that get the brunt of the shitty treatment. Racism happens everywhere, some more than others. Other than the Emperor, whom we honestly haven't seen much of, most of the royal family members and high-ranking officers we've seen so far have seemed like human beings as well instead of tyrants (with the exception of Clovis, but he died in the beginning of the third episode, so he doesn't count, but considering that many attended the Purists' parade of Suzaku, it seemed that he was moreorless welcomed by the Britannians). We've seen Cornelia slaughter people, but, on the other hand, she's quite kind to Euphemia, and she has shown great responsibility to people under her command instead of wasting their lives needlessly like pawns. There is no government that is evil; the government is only the lens that reflects the light of the people who run it. At the moment, though, I honestly don't think that the Britannians don't give a damn about their population. Even Britannian soldiers have been seen with the family members of the victims at Narita. We just sympathize a lot with the Elevens. As for Suzaku himself... Oh, yes. Let me make this clear really quick. Suzaku is in absolutely no way a Kira. The only similarities they share are that they have really kickass mechs, and that they are Japanese. Similarities end there. Kira was not nearly as naive as Suzaku was. Kira was a civilian who never received military training, but he walked into the cockpit of Strike fully aware that he would have to kill (Kira did not pursue a policy of missing cockpits until he received Freedom and could afford to do non-lethal combat). Suzaku was a military-trained soldier who still wanted to prevent as much loss of life. Kira joined the military only because the situation forced him to protect his friends. Suzaku joined because he wanted to change Britannia (I'm skeptical of that, as we haven't seen Suzaku do much, nor seen much backing for such a claim). Kira never criticized the "justice" of killing Coordinators or Naturals, and accepted the fact that such hate was simply going to last between the Earth Alliance and PLANT. Suzaku could not accept the killings made by the Order of the Black Knights because they did not operate under legit authority. The two could not possibly be even more different. So, as a declaration, I shall now bonk anyone on the head with a mallet if they call Suzaku a Kira. And that is all. ^_^ |
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