AnimeSuki Forums

Magin · 2020-03-10, 23:26

Actually, I just realized... Trump's STILL going to get all the media attention. Maybe this is tinfoil hate time but... Trump makes the media money with all the outrage generated. If Bernie had become the candidate, he'd not only probably beat Trump, but also cause re-distribution of tons of money, which the billionaires and corporations can't have. Which is why they had to eliminate him first. So Biden has basically primary'd Bernie, meaning that now the media can focus back on Trump and making money.

I'm holding out the barest glimmer of hope for my home country but... I now weep for the America that I grew up in and is about to be completely lost.

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 01:02

So your argument is that Sanders can't beat HRC or Biden by getting Democrats to vote for him, but he'd "probably beat Trump" by getting- who, exactly to vote for him? Republicans? Closet socialists?

Face facts - the guy just isn't that popular. He's losing elections because other people are getting more votes, not because of some deep state conspiracy. Social media is an echo chamber, but it's not the real world. And unfortunately for Sanders even people who don't praise Dear Leader on twitter have their votes counted.

As for this idea that "the only difference between Trump and Biden (or HRC for that matter) is the letter next to their name" - seriously, read a damn history book. Get out more. Whatever you may think of Biden and Sanders the mere suggestion is offensive and asinine.

Magin · 2020-03-11, 01:22

So I'm fully convinced the only reason why Sanders lost to Biden is because DNC propaganda... specifically because as much as I hate to admit it, the ones who turned out are the older people who watch TV. Guess what TV propaganda was being pushed? Always Biden, never Sanders. If anything positive about Bernie had been on TV, he would've won. And I do fully believe that Sanders would've won in the general- this was Democrats only, and I know that Republicans have been swayed to vote for Bernie. Now that's he probably done... they're going back to Trump.

And I stand by my statement that Biden and Trump are the same except for the letter next to their name. See the chart from several pages back:

Quote:

Originally Posted by coded321

coded321 · 2020-03-11, 01:40

What beat bernie wasn't biden, it was the dnc and corporate media. If you think biden could have made this comeback on his own, you are ignoring reality. If the repubs had coalesced against trump in 2016 the way the Democrats coalasced against bernie now, trump wouldn't have become president either. And how can biden hope to maintain support when he literally tells people to vote for trump when they dare question, rightfully, his policies and history? Holy crap, at least trump comes up with some BS to deflect blame from himself. With biden , he gets super defensive and angry, literally telling much needed, key voters to screw themselves. Biden's worse enemy isnt trump or sanders, it's himself. Only two things can get him elected: a recession, and obama as vp. And you know what? While sanders could not win their support for himself, he did win support for his platform from the states biden won. The voters who voted for biden also showed massive support for the policies and platform bernie advocates for. Yet, how does biden plan to maintain that support when he tells them he's going to veto M4A if it ever got passed by congress?

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 04:12

AOC weighs in with a take sharply contrasting with most Sanders supporters online:

https://twitter.com/julito77/status/1237561195147583489

For those who say there's no difference between Biden and Trump except a letter next to their name, a question - whose administration would you trust more when it comes to handling a public health crisis (like, say, COVID-19)?

coded321 · 2020-03-11, 04:36

Anyone is more trustable than trump. That's not a high bar. What exactly was the point of the tweet thread? That we vote biden no matter what? Forgive us if we feel less than enthusiastic when his main selling point is that he's not trump. We become even less invigorated to vote when he tells us to go screw ourselves and vote trump if we dare to question his policies and platform.

James Rye · 2020-03-11, 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by coded321

^any tips on the immigration process in japan? always did want to come to japan. in the miracle biden wins, they better have a very competent vp backing him cause i honestly don't think he'll last his first year. hell, i'd be invigorated if obama became biden's vp. that way, when biden retires early, we're back to an obama presidency... yeah, wishful thinking i know, but i need something to keep me sane.

Can an ex-president become a vice president later on? Is that even allowed?

coded321 · 2020-03-11, 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rye

Can an ex-president become a vice president later on? Is that even allowed?

I've seen some arguments about a possible loophole or technicality in the constitution that might make this possible.

James Rye · 2020-03-11, 04:44

But would Americans want to see Obama as a VP? I mean, I can see the other way around rising from VP to future President like Biden tries to do now, but it seems kinda "weird" that an ex-President would want to be a VP after already being President.

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rye

Can an ex-president become a vice president later on? Is that even allowed?

Not if they've already served the constitutionally limited two elected terms in office. A vice-president can't be ineligible for the presidency, for obvious reasons. So no, Obama (who'd never be interested anyway) is ineligible. But, as an example, Jimmy Carter would not be (and in fact, Ronald Reagan very nearly put ex-president Gerald Ford on the ticket in 1980 before talks fell through and he settled on George H.W. Bush).

coded321 · 2020-03-11, 04:50

Honestly, biden will need all the damn help he can get if he becomes the democrat nominee. And even if he did win, I don't think he'll last very long, so obama steps in to become acting president. For obama, he has the chance to undo the damage to his legacy.

James Rye · 2020-03-11, 04:53

Well, first off all Biden has to win and for that he does need Sander's supporters. Without them it gonna be much harder to beat Trump.

coded321 · 2020-03-11, 05:10

Hence why bernie supporters have very little hope, even if 100% of bernie voters voted for biddn, that won't matter if biden continues to angrily chase away key independents and progressives.

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by coded321

Honestly, biden will need all the damn help he can get if he becomes the democrat nominee. And even if he did win, I don't think he'll last very long, so obama steps in to become acting president. For obama, he has the chance to undo the damage to his legacy.

Again, Obama is constitutionally ineligible to be vice-president because he's constitutionally ineligible to be president.

22nd Amendment:

Quote:

“No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.”

A crackpot theory does exist that the language offers a loophole because of the word "elected". But the 12th Amendment precludes that:

Quote:

“No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”

But again - Obama would never do it anyway so it's a moot point. But given his age, Bidens certainly going to be under a lot of pressure to pick a "ready from day one" type of person, who will almost certainly be a woman.

James Rye · 2020-03-11, 05:38

So either Harris or Warren probably.

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rye

So either Harris or Warren probably.

I like Abrams a lot, but she doesn't necessarily check the experience box as well as you'd like for a candidate almost 80 years old. Selfishly I'd love it to be Warren, but she's 70 herself - that might be a problem for some. Harris seems to make a lot of sense in purely electoral terms and while I'm not a huge fan, I could live with it. But there are other women who make a lot of sense - Tammy Duckworth for example, or my personal favorite sleeper candidate Catherine Cortez Masto.

coded321 · 2020-03-11, 06:00

With sanders stopped, what are the chances the dnc declares biden unfit to be nominee, and choses someone like pete instead?

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by coded321

With sanders stopped, what are the chances the dnc declares biden unfit to be nominee, and choses someone like pete instead?

Zero, since they don't have the authority. Whoever it is would have to be chosen by the delegates to the convention.

SeijiSensei · 2020-03-11, 07:36

Biden could pick the "other" Obama as a VP, which would nearly guarantee his election, but I doubt Michelle would take the job. Catherine Cortez Masto is an interesting pick, though she has little public recognition. But then, many VP choices were largely unknown to the public like Tim Kaine, Sarah Palin, and Dan Quayle. I wish governors had more public visibility since I'd much prefer them as presidential candidates than senators.

Guardian Enzo · 2020-03-11, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Biden could pick the "other" Obama as a VP, which would nearly guarantee his election, but I doubt Michelle would take the job. Catherine Cortez Masto is an interesting pick, though she has little public recognition. But then, many VP choices were largely unknown to the public like Tim Kaine, Sarah Palin, and Dan Quayle. I wish governors had more public visibility since I'd much prefer them as presidential candidates than senators.

It wasn't that long ago that governor was the most common stepping stone to the presidency. But worth remembering that Clinton and G.W. Bush were both ex-governors and two-term presidents - governors have fared poorly from 2008 onwards (apart from Romney) but historically it's probably a blip.

Of course Michelle is going to be a fashionable fantasy league pick, but it'll never happen. I don't personally think Masto's relatively low profile is a problem - she's a sitting U.S. Senator, Hispanic, and relatively well-placed to be acceptable to both major wings of the party. I still think Harris is the favorite and Warren can't be written off, but Masto would be my 3rd betting favorite. I think Biden loves Abrams and would love to pick her, but the experience factor is a huge hurdle.

2020-03-10, 23:26	Link #201
Magin #1 Akashiya Moka Fan Author Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where magic is real Age: 36	Actually, I just realized... Trump's STILL going to get all the media attention. Maybe this is tinfoil hate time but... Trump makes the media money with all the outrage generated. If Bernie had become the candidate, he'd not only probably beat Trump, but also cause re-distribution of tons of money, which the billionaires and corporations can't have. Which is why they had to eliminate him first. So Biden has basically primary'd Bernie, meaning that now the media can focus back on Trump and making money. I'm holding out the barest glimmer of hope for my home country but... I now weep for the America that I grew up in and is about to be completely lost. __________________ Gifted...or Cursed? R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net! All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!

2020-03-11, 04:44	Link #209
James Rye Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Germany	But would Americans want to see Obama as a VP? I mean, I can see the other way around rising from VP to future President like Biden tries to do now, but it seems kinda "weird" that an ex-President would want to be a VP after already being President. __________________

2020-03-11, 04:53	Link #212
James Rye Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Germany	Well, first off all Biden has to win and for that he does need Sander's supporters. Without them it gonna be much harder to beat Trump. __________________

2020-03-11, 05:38	Link #215
James Rye Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Germany	So either Harris or Warren probably. __________________

2020-03-11, 07:36	Link #219
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	Biden could pick the "other" Obama as a VP, which would nearly guarantee his election, but I doubt Michelle would take the job. Catherine Cortez Masto is an interesting pick, though she has little public recognition. But then, many VP choices were largely unknown to the public like Tim Kaine, Sarah Palin, and Dan Quayle. I wish governors had more public visibility since I'd much prefer them as presidential candidates than senators. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2020-03-11, 01:40	Link #204
coded321 He Who Games Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: the virtual world	What beat bernie wasn't biden, it was the dnc and corporate media. If you think biden could have made this comeback on his own, you are ignoring reality. If the repubs had coalesced against trump in 2016 the way the Democrats coalasced against bernie now, trump wouldn't have become president either. And how can biden hope to maintain support when he literally tells people to vote for trump when they dare question, rightfully, his policies and history? Holy crap, at least trump comes up with some BS to deflect blame from himself. With biden , he gets super defensive and angry, literally telling much needed, key voters to screw themselves. Biden's worse enemy isnt trump or sanders, it's himself. Only two things can get him elected: a recession, and obama as vp. And you know what? While sanders could not win their support for himself, he did win support for his platform from the states biden won. The voters who voted for biden also showed massive support for the policies and platform bernie advocates for. Yet, how does biden plan to maintain that support when he tells them he's going to veto M4A if it ever got passed by congress?

2020-03-11, 04:36	Link #206
coded321 He Who Games Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: the virtual world	Anyone is more trustable than trump. That's not a high bar. What exactly was the point of the tweet thread? That we vote biden no matter what? Forgive us if we feel less than enthusiastic when his main selling point is that he's not trump. We become even less invigorated to vote when he tells us to go screw ourselves and vote trump if we dare to question his policies and platform.

2020-03-11, 04:50	Link #211
coded321 He Who Games Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: the virtual world	Honestly, biden will need all the damn help he can get if he becomes the democrat nominee. And even if he did win, I don't think he'll last very long, so obama steps in to become acting president. For obama, he has the chance to undo the damage to his legacy.

2020-03-11, 05:10	Link #213
coded321 He Who Games Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: the virtual world	Hence why bernie supporters have very little hope, even if 100% of bernie voters voted for biddn, that won't matter if biden continues to angrily chase away key independents and progressives.

2020-03-11, 06:00	Link #217
coded321 He Who Games Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: the virtual world	With sanders stopped, what are the chances the dnc declares biden unfit to be nominee, and choses someone like pete instead?