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Link #201 |
The Interstellar Medium
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Location: [SWE]
Age: 34
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As a sidenote, EVE allows people to activate their accs for 3 hours (once, then they need to pay again) to allow them access to in-game stuff. Perhaps Wildstar might use something similar (and if they don't, it's probably possible to offer it as feedback to the devs. Somewhere. Maybe.)
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Link #202 |
Did someone call a doctor
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 41
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I'm pretty much with Syn comparing F2P and Sub games. To me, F2P games are just distractions for little periods of time, I rarely spend money on them if at all (outside of extra character slots) because if you want to be 'competitive' you generally end up paying more per month than a sub game.
Although, I don't see F2P or microtransaction going away any time soon. Publishers lap that shit right up. What the customer paid initially is NOT ENOUGH! We cant afford those ivory back scratchers. We need a way to make them pay more! I know, lets make key crafting materials that can be purchased with real money or, have a drop rate of 0.000001%! Genius lads, lets break for bacardi breezers. What, we can't afford those either? Well, we will just have to cut out those pesky story elements down in size, and sell them in smaller chunks, priced moderately of course!
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Link #203 | |
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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In the same vein, sub games also runs into the same issue. When content runs out, sub count will drop as well. WoW and EVE runs into the same issue yearly when they hit the content drought. While WoW continues persist in the same direction they have been going since the beginning, CCP changed their development model to smaller but more frequent updates. Fundementally, all MMO games are built in the same way where the developers are trying to slow down player progress in order to make money via sub or selling xp potions. That's why there's so much "grind" in them as opposed to other types of games. Just at how skill training works in Eve or the controversial fatigue system FFXIV tried to introduced before. It's all made to ensure players will continue to pay the game without adding meaningful content.
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Link #204 |
blinded by blood
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http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/fi...lay-exclusive/
I think Yoshida is a bit more knowledgeable about this field than you are. ![]()
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Link #205 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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The entire wireless telco business is built around "P2P" subscription - because predictable income is most important when planning new infrastructure or maintenance. There are F2P carriers but they are either piggybacking on the P2P networks or they have established infrastructure they aren't going to be doing maintenance/upgrades on. Why? Because the income isn't predictable.
That's pretty much exactly how Yoshida is putting it and that is pretty much the way most service-oriented business thinks. That's why opera houses, symphonies, zoos, museums, sports organizations work hard for subscription memberships - predictable income. There's a place for F2P even within P2P games but it is very much the "patron + peanut gallery" concept of entertainment.
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Link #206 | |
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Link #207 | |
Senior Member
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P2P MMO will charge you 1 month of game time but not everyone plays every day. For F2P players will purchase what they want or (feel) need to use. So there's a different dynamic. In the same vein, you could say P2P + cash shop model is like TV cable. You pay a base rate for cable, and then to add on packages you have to pay extra. Or extra bandwidth. |
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Link #208 |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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F2P games depend entirely on the company that runs them. I once hit LV146 or so in Maplestory...after 3 years of everyday gaming, because the exp curve was so steep that you needed ~200,000,000 exp to level up and the daily bosses yielded like, 210k...if you could get to them before others. NEXON just left the game to die, opening more and more classes instead of focusing on new maps - and when they did, the new maps were locked...in order to access them, you had to climb a 100-floor castle, kill an impossible boss that has a X% chance of dropping an item and, of course, get that ONE item. That, or buy it in the cash shop.
OTOH, CabalOnline was much softer, with only means of fast transport making a premium user stand out. Not that there weren't other bonuses, but it was nothing too great really. (In comparison, MapleStory players can't set up a shop to sell their stuff without paying up). As for me, I'm currently playing Rusty Hearts, an F2P game that is definitely pay-to-win...but its PvP system is the best I've seen so far and the plot is intriguing, so I can at least enjoy the game even if I don't hit the big leagues of massive raids and guild tourneys. Unfortunately, PWE doesn't really give a damn about it, leaving numerous bugs and blatant hacking (to the point of people creating and duping GM gear or allowing insane +700 augments and +20 enchants). I heard there was a purge at some point, but the game's bleeding out atm. Oh, PEW did do one thing: a mass discount on cash shop items ![]() |
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Link #209 | |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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I still think that charging $15 a month is something that has to go though, WoW can get away with it because it's WoW, but something like Wildstar, FFXIV: ARR and Elder Scrolls probably won't. $10 would be a lot better at keeping numbers. Likewise F2P games that charge for a sub like TOR+TERA should be doing the same, you need to be subbed to really play them, though a lot of people just like to level up and quit since raiding is not for them. F2P works for that aspect. F2P is for the casual player whereas if you're serious you're going to still be subbing regardless. Now B2P models like GW2 and hopefully EQNext are a bit different. |
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Link #210 | |
Adeptus Animus
![]() Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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F2P games on the other hand, I can fire up whenever I want. It's convenience, and it lets me get back easier. If I then choose to spend money in the game afterwards, that's a bridge I'll cross then. |
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Link #211 | |||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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![]() I guess when you can't find fault with the argument, attack the messenger instead. Quote:
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Link #212 | |
Senior Member
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EDIT: For example, in World of Tanks there is the monthly premium service (similar to monthly subscription), but since I rarely play, I can log on and buy only 1 or 3 days of premium service instead, which would be more worth my money. I can buy only the time I am going to play. |
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Link #213 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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And frankly, 2 dollars a day for entertainment is pretty damn cheap, I can't even buy my lunch at work for that much. |
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Link #214 |
Senior Member
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It's expensive when I can buy 50 hour entertainment games for 4.99 on steam :P Also for 15 USD a month, every 3-4 months that's a brand new game. So the subscription game in question has to be good enough to be an additional game's value in entertainment or else it wouldn't be worth the subscription. And that really varies per game.
Also, I'd like to point out that even P2P subscription games have game mechanics that are designed to keep you playing for X amount of time, if you are referring to those. Cooldown timers for dungeons + low percentage of bind on pickup drops, for instance. Whether subscription or F2P it's a mechanics issue, not a money issue. Personally I think F2P is going on the bandwagon effect. Everyone saw it with WoW, and then now they are jumping on to the free to play bandwagon. Except there's only so many hours people play per day, and only so much money to go around. So I think eventually sticking f2p onto every MMO is going to backfire pretty badly. |
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Link #215 | |
Ava courtesy of patchy
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Don't get me wrong, I love P2P model more than F2P, although I think all P2P model should offer a free trial period and sell gametime based subscription option(something like 5$ for 10 hour of play and 10$ for 30 hour of play or something to that effect) along with their monthly subscription, but I kind of understand why some people like the F2P model more(ease of return, non-binding feeling of having to get what you paid for even if it's a small amount of money, etc). |
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Link #216 | ||
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Not just CCP, plenty of other MMO developers are adopting the same strategy whether they are F2P or P2P because long time gap in updates tends to cause people to unsubscribe or stop playing during those content drought. You completely missed the point and went on your own hyperbole. No matter how good or how many hours you are playing, the game is throttled by the sp system to ensure players have to maintain their subscription to progress. That's why there's a significant power gap between new players and old players regardless of the number of hours played because progress is heavily determined by months subscribed.
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Link #217 | |
The Interstellar Medium
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Location: [SWE]
Age: 34
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It all comes down to skill, not stats.
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Link #218 | |||||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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of MMOs. Quote:
The important thing is to look at the validity of the argument, not merely dismiss them out of hand. Quote:
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And FYI, they are going back to the "multiple features Ina single updated" format, because they finally realized that neglecting parts of the game for years is not a good idea(coughindustryupdatecough). Quote:
"Progress" in a sandbox game like Eve is determined by each player. SP is merely one of many tools that one may or may not use to obtain their goal. For example, the vast majority of my fortunes were made on my alts with less than a mil SP, using the real cause of the gap between new and old player - experience, actual player skill, and connections. Yup ![]() |
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Link #219 | ||
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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There's no right or wrong in it, just how the business model is driven in Eve Online. Quote:
The sp is the stick and player choice is the carrot in the Eve.
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Link #220 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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And having left the pew pew side of things for a couple of years, I'm fairly certain there are many new players who can easily hand me my 160mil ass on a silver patter. Neither does everything require SP as you claim - what skill do you have to train to be a diplomat? to organize events? What skill did the people who runs BIG and Blink had to train first? Last edited by kyp275; 2013-08-27 at 11:32. |
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