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Link #201 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Has Kousei ever loved music? From my perspective, he loved his mother. Now he's in love with Kaori. What is discomforing to know is that Kaori is also dying. Just like his mother, Kaori forces him to play music, a thing she loves doing. There's not an ounce of evidence that her helping him is out of pure altruism, so I don't believe she is the Magical Pixie everyone thinks her to be. She's a selfish child, as children often are, furthermore if she's dying she's in an existential crisis and she has a goal to achieve before it comes to pass. Oh my God, holy shit, that is exactly what her mother was doing when she got sick, she wanted musical success by proxy of her son! So Kousei is, in fact, helping Kaori, and not the other way around. The problem with this setup now is that there's always going to be a clout of suspicion regarding his affection for Kaori. It could be that he started seeing a motherly figure in her and will now try his hardest to pick the music back up not for his sake but for his late mother's sake, despite what he may say later. Kaori's sickness is just a terrible setup for the show. Again, has Kousei ever loved music or has he always thought of it as an extension to his love for his mother? Right now it seems the dude is totally fucked in the head and the issue is more serious than it looks, far from something pushy teenagers can fix. |
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Link #202 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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^ Arima said something in this episode about not trying to excuse himself as he did with his mother. I'm at work now so I can't check it out what he really meant. But as I said his journey could be about find again his love for her mother through music and Kaori. And not about the music itself (aspect that will come eventually). Tsubaki also didn't said by chance that if he play or not it doesn't matter. The show could be doing things deliberately after all.
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Link #203 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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From how Kaori and Tsubaki reacted in that part of the story, I can't help but agree with cyth worries in there.
So far, Kousei's involvement with Kaori's performance is simply one sided. The former plays only because the latter needs him, but the opposite doesn't work at all. In fact, Kousei's fundamental issue is still rather murky, and instead of having a proper discussion or treatment about his trauma, both Kaori and Tsubaki are extremely pushy. It isn't even a matter of whether or not Kousei 'wants' to play piano, but rather that he -should- play piano in their perspective. IMHO, Kousei's issue is much more complicated than simply associating his mom's abuse and death with the piano, and the fact both girls completely ignore this aspect is quite aggravating in my books. It isn't even a matter of "not wasting a talented musician" but rather have their run for the hell of it. No matter how good their intentions are, they are completely circumventing Kousei's issues altogether. "You don't know until you try" is always a motto I found bold but also unconsiderate if the context calls it right, and I'm really not buying Kaori's speech. It is simply similar to how "power of friendship" works in some other series: "just believe in yourself" which is rich when you consider the fact Kaori knows nothing about Kousei's personal anguish, no matter the information she got from Tsubaki. So frankly, I was just dumbfounded when Kaori thought it was a good idea to headbutt Kousei and dismiss his doubts with an empty and cliche one liner.
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Link #204 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2014
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They're really kind of mucking up Kaori's interpretation with this adaptation pretty badly at this key juncture IMO. Really playing up this idea of her apparent perfection and always being righteous and the one everyone always has to live up to including the establishment itself when in reality this is supposed to be a rather crucial moment when Arima realizes that she needs him as a grounding force and support not for her performance but for her dreams that are about to get crushed by an establishment unconcerned with innovation and personal interpretation as much as he kind of needs her energy and willpower to handle his issues in the long run as well. It really doesn't come across that way here again though and more like everyone must acknowledge Kaori who basically all but forces the guy into performing with her and making it through the whole thing rather than convinces him with the truth of their situations.
I feel like the anime is always making things way to much about Kaori and a sort of character worship for sure when really it's supposed to be more focused on Arima and how it's strictly him who feels this way out his own sense of self-loathing. Somehow Arima's idealized interpretation of her is being conveyed as the shows general interpretation of her as well basically and it's causing some problems. Speaking of Arima's character, I also kind of have to say I really haven't enjoyed Natsuki Hanae's performance with the character to date much at all who among other things I feel really overplays the weakness and vulnerability aspect of the character while failing to capture his insightful nature. He makes him seem a lot dumber than he actually is basically. There's also just something about this newer voice actor where it always seems like he either has no emotion in his performance whatsoever or entirely too much to the point where it becomes hammy and he's yet to be able to find that comfortable middle ground in any instance I've heard him in where his performance doesn't stand out like a sore thumb compared to his co-stars who incidentally are all perfectly fine and well cast so far in this. I'll chalk it up to still being very new to the scene, but to me he shouldn't be getting pushed as much as he has been if he's still clearly not ready for leading roles. Most seiyuu start off their career doing just that, talking smaller roles and building a portfolio of experience before being tasked to lead, but for whatever reason the latest batch like him and frequent co-star Sora Amamiya have been jumped ahead. I'd argue she's a rare case of ready right away, but he's clearly not coming across almost like an unpolished Kaji Yuki of all things. Anyway I don't know why they're portraying the character dynamic between Arima and Kaori this way in any case, but then again it's not entirely uncommon for an A-1 adaptation to just sort of take an approach more like this where they overemphasize a certain character that I guess is more marketable in the long run so I'll chalk it up to that. Oh well they'll have another chance to start getting it right pretty soon and showing a clearer distinction between Arima's vision of Kaori versus the reality of who she is in being a lot more vulnerable and less composed under the surface than she or the anime interpretation lets on. |
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Link #205 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I loved the way we were quickly and effectively shown that Mama started out kind and only gradually became the desperate ogre, as her health failed. The fact is that Kousei is vulnerable to strong girls. This is a problem how? The scenes where he is following her golden back are thrilling, for him and for me. The difference between Mama and Kaori is that Kaori is all about the love of music and of self-expression. Mama was rigid and technical. Or at least she became that way. Kaori's not likely to go down that path. The show is suggesting that Kousei may be recovering his actual love of music, going back to the time he was just beginning to learn to play. My feelings about this episode were similar to DragoonKain3's. Thrilling episode. And it was so moving when Tsubaki was devastated to glimpse how much Kousei was into Kaori. However, I do agree with cyth that we can't take Kousei's "no-one understands" totally at face value. He does suffer from a kind of Stockholm Syndrome, where he loves his tormentor (Mama, in this case, lol). But at least the love came first, before the torment. To be honest, I think I find myself identifying more and more with Kaori. She has the clearest vision, and the most pressing problem (as it turns out). Music is freedom. Of course, it is hard not to identify with Tsubaki, too. She doesn't even really know she loves Kousei in a romantic way. She thinks he's just a troublesome little brother. I loved the way Ryouta seems to be falling more and more for Kaori. Such complications ahead. I can even (barely) imagine KaorixKousei being a purely musical association, with her romantic feelings going elsewhere. However, I think music is her life, and her desire to get close to Ryouta was just another aspect of her desperation to do everything before the end, including dating the most attractive boy in the school. Tragic for a teenager to already have a "bucket list."
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Link #206 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Link #207 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Kousei's trauma ended up carrying over after his mother died. And he never really got closure for himself on what music means to him. Is it just a connection to his mother, or does he really love music. Now he has a second chance to redo it now that he isn't a 8-10 year old kid now. He's more conscious of himself, and making is own decision. You can say Kaori has other motives, and is using Kousei to achieve her goal before she dies. It goes both ways, Kousei is going to use Kaori as a substitute for his mother to get over his problem. Give & Take
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Link #208 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Link #211 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Had she stayed healthy, I doubt she would have been so adamant on getting Kousei to fill her shoes. |
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Link #214 | ||||
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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Okay, now back to business. And look at this, what I want to tell to everyone can be summed up in one reply!
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As such, I assume that the writer is extremely competent and knows exactly what he (I dunno if the author is a he or a she, but I'm going to assume he) is writing. That is, he drew the scenes and wrote the dialogue, knowing full well the importance, the significance, and the implications with each picture and with each word that he puts in his work. So if the author writes that Arima has a problem with other people and not his mom, and the author ALSO writes that his inner self (the cat) has problems with being compared to the legend Beethoven and not with his mom, AND the author gives Arima pretty much the same affliction as Beethoven thus the implication that his trauma has GOT something to do with Beethoven, who am I to contradict the author just because 'real life' says otherwise? Quote:
The way I think about the scene... wouldn't it make more sense for Kousei to stop hearing the music after seeing that nasty smile of ghost mom (rather than when she disappears) if indeed the mom's abuse was the problem? Quote:
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Okay, STORY TIME! When I first read Shigatsu wa Kimi Uso, I am not going to lie to you guys, I personally thought it was a stinking pile of crap. Like, it did not make sense at all for me. While true, I was a bit jaded that Kaori succeeded in like weeks what Tsubaki has been trying to do for years, and couldn't accept Kaori succeeded because she is someone Arima has falllen in love with, what really got me was that the narrative did not flow whatsoever under my initial assumption that (like everyone else) Arima's trauma was caused by the 'abuse' of his mom. Think about it... Assuming it was his mom's "abuse" that caused him the trauma, wouldn't her death be liberating rather than suffocating him? Why was he beaming so brightly when he won the competition? [eps 1 13:55] Why would the memory of a 'nicer mom' of days past be the one to get him to start to hear the music again? In the end, the mom is still the one who abused him, so that makes absolutely no sense. Then there are things that the "abuse = trauma" theory doesn't explain. How is abuse connected at all with feeling all alone in the bottom of the dark sea where he can't hear anything? Why is he still clinging to the piano half-heartedly when his trauma stems from the abuse that came with it? Why is the cat speaking nonsense about being compared to Beethoven if his actual problem is the abuse that he received while playing the piano? Not only that, but going under this assumption, how did Kaori convince Kousei to acoompany her? The only thing we have to go by is that Kousei only accepted to be Kaori's acommpanist because she's the one he loves, and she's crying while she pleads him to do as she wishes. While technically true, that will be be all and end all of the whole story, as we can't use the theory of Kaori as a replacement for his mom. This because if the 'abuse' is the problem and Kaori the next coming of his mom (who was the source of the abuse), wouldn't Kaori have instead the opposite effect and push him further away from playing the piano? So yeah, make no mistake, I PERFECTLY understood what the complaints were by a lot of people when episode 3 aired. Pixie Manic Dream Girl Kaori, Kousei's trauma being trivialized by accepting to Kaori's accompanist, Kousei being a shallow dude, the entire shebang. Believe me, I held the same opinion about the series on my first run through (the manga) and only really enjoyed the series after what was equivalent of episode 4 (thank god for Tsubaki keeping me interested!). Then I saw episode 1 and only then did I think "Maybe I was mistaken with my assumption?" Before I actively ignored a lot what the author was writing down about how Kousei feels, thinking that it was imagery not relevant to the plot, since none of it matches my assumption of the mom's abuse being the source of Kousei's trauma. Only upon watching the anime that I thought maybe the author wasn't incompetent after all, and wrote all those things down for a reason.
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Link #215 | |
Blooming on the mountain
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....
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Ep 04
Yep. The adaptation is extraordinarily faithful to the source material. A little while ago another member asked me what I thought about the series and here was my reply: Quote:
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Link #216 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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The main problem with the manga was that it was soundless!
I definitely have nothing to complain about the music direction, bgms, in-show performances. Heck, I even love the OP and ED, composition, lyrics and all. I already have the manga from bookwalker, and it's been a while since I got anime goods, but I'm definitely getting all the media goods of this show. |
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Link #217 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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It should be obvious that Kousei started playing piano to impress his mother and other people in her world, but as she grew increasingly ill, Kousei collapsed under the expectations set for him as badly as his mother's life did. Quote:
Being unable to hear anything, and that being his "punishment" is because believe it or not, he's a growing child with conflicting feelings. He needs think for himself now that his mother is gone, but since his performances were based on pleasing mostly her, he doesn't know how to think for himself. Getting lost in his own thoughts (and as this show proved, he has a lot of thoughts), means he can no longer be the human metronome Kaori called him. Quote:
And failing expectations (or more specifically, disappointing others) usually does not mean you failed to do something beyond what you're capable of, but that you failed to do something you or others believe you can do. That is the paradox of self-pity. There is the feeling of disappointment, but it's not enough to prove it's beyond your league to the point where you can move on. Quote:
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Again, Kousei's issue is figuring out what others expect from him now that his mother is gone, and what to expect from himself. It is his mother's fault for raising him to become so critical of himself to the point where he has lost his self-esteem. And whether you like it or not, Kaori clearly will be the driving force behind helping Kousei find his raison d'être. He doesn't have to physically cling to her, but you're not giving her enough credit if you're telling me she won't be a major influence in Kousei's life, especially with all the flowery language he uses to describe her. |
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Link #218 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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It surprises me that we don't get to hear anything about Kousei's father. Did he die before Kousei was born or very little, or did he leave them when his mother got ill? Last edited by cyth; 2014-11-01 at 03:02. |
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Link #219 | |
絶対領域に嵌り過ぎた。
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trendy Backwater
Age: 38
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My god! You analysed the main character's psyche better than anyone can. I'm impressed.
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Link #220 | |
Senior Member
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But perhaps I giving the mangaka to much credit and should significantly lower my expectations as to how this is all going to be handled in even a marginally realistic fashion. |
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adolescent, bittersweet, contemplation on life, drama, music, romance, tragedy |
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