(L) Tatakau Shisho (The Book of Bantorra)

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

Alright another question, why do books have to be mined from the ground? I was thinking that in episode four we saw a guy simply pull the book out of someone's body and I assumed that's how the librarians got all their books. Any reason given why they appear underground instead.

Actually, Yamagata-san never talks about the process of book forming. I make a guess according to the info I have.
After people died, their souls fossilizes into a book after a few days at the position where they died. It is their souls fossilizes instead of their body. So, their body can be moved away.
Many people dies everyday and I don't think there are people who can take away every books. So, some books, especially the anicent books as Kenn suggested, were buried underground. They need to be dug out. That's why we have a mine town Toatt.
Lascall's ability is to make book directly from dead body.

Originally Posted by kyouray

Spoiler for episode 5:

So you suggest that Lascall gave Shiron's book to Colio for the love story ?
This Lascall can live for a long time or travel in time...then this old guy can influence the plot by delivering books.
I don't want a story like "Volken dies then Lascall gives his book to Mirepoc then she recovers her memories" D:

Spoiler for Mirepoc's decision:

I agree that it is a kind of strength to make this decision. However, she is a lot tougher in the novel. She suffers more before she makes this decision.

Spoiler for Lascall:

Yes, Lascall can do that though I don't know why he does that. Pretended as a filmmaker?
You won't see those soap opera kind of story here.

Originally Posted by Doria

Well, honestly, I really strongly believe that this is to accommodate what would have developed over a longer period in the novels. It doesn't help us much as anime viewers, but I believe her arc vis-a-vis Volken is likely better developed in the books.

Spoiler for Mirepoc and Volken:

Um...actually, character development is always not a focus in this series. Don't expect any development beyond this unless they make another original ep.

And I have changed my avatar into Mokania~
I watch the ep. again and I have a bad feeling.

Spoiler for Those ants:

look bad. The production team has to make trillion of those ants later. If they really look that bad, they will ruin the epic fight scene.

We will face another True Man in the next arc. The white hair old man, Ganbalzel. His desire is to create the strongest man in the world and he called it "Monster". And we will know how people get their ability, too.

[sapphire-pyro]

I LOVE EPISODE FIVE!!!!!!!I was laughing so hard and "bashing" Volken and Mirepoc for beign such idiots xD Hahahaha! Oh they're so cute~

Oh yeah, for those interested, I made a compilation of plot synopses of the novels. Thank kemal for being so awesome!!!

And oh, kemal, spoil me more about Volken and Mirepoc in PM please xD Hehehe

[Doria]

Wow, character is even less of a focus in the novels? That's a bit disappointing... It's typically hard for a TV series (particularly a short one) to have even more development than a novel series, but if you're really saying that 1.5 eps focusing on Mirepoc (I give it the benefit of a half, for the ending to 4, also) is more time than she gets in the books, then I can start to see why the books may not have done so well in Japan. Oh well, I guess I'll see for myself. I finally got the first three this weekend.

And yeah, I can guess which scenes you mean about the ants later on... Badly done ants will be ... yeah, bad... But most of the visuals have been decent, so let's hope on this one!

EDIT: Sapphire, nice synopses there. Those will be really useful for when I get stuck trying to read the books, haha. But seriously, nice work!

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by sapphire-pyro

Thank kemal for being so awesome!!!
Hehehe

You're welcome. Don't forget to thank Yamagata-san for making such a good story!

Originally Posted by Doria

Wow, character is even less of a focus in the novels? That's a bit disappointing... It's typically hard for a TV series (particularly a short one) to have even more development than a novel series, but if you're really saying that 1.5 eps focusing on Mirepoc (I give it the benefit of a half, for the ending to 4, also) is more time than she gets in the books, then I can start to see why the books may not have done so well in Japan. Oh well, I guess I'll see for myself. I finally got the first three this weekend.

And yeah, I can guess which scenes you mean about the ants later on... Badly done ants will be ... yeah, bad... But most of the visuals have been decent, so let's hope on this one!

The recurring theme of this series is "Past". God of the Past Bantorra, book that can see a person's past, people in the past affect people in the present...
We will know more about characters' past instead of seeing their changes.
We will see Mirepoc more in arc 4. It is her arc.
No fixed main character in the major problem. Reader and viewer don't familiar with this story-telling style. They think it is confusing and disorienting.
Another problem is terms. Actually, Yamagata-san is making a fantasy story without any references which we are familiar with. (Some readers suggust the Norse Mythology also has the "god of time" thing but I am not familiar with it.) He is making a new world and they want us to learn about this world. This is not an easy task for everyone.
It can be saved by moe characters or some comedies but there is not.

I like arc 3 the most. About those ants, I will wait and see. Maybe it won't be that bad.

[Doria]

Yeah, I agree that audiences typically (here in the US, too) have a harder time enjoying series that tell a story from multiple viewpoints. I don't think that's a big problem in the anime, as they've kind of set Hamyuts as a fixed point. Even though she isn't the main character in each episode, her perspective works to unify the individual episodes. I hope that made sense... it's kind of how some Shakespearean plays work, for example (and classical ones, if you want to go back that far).

And I understand the author's intent to present a work via a theme. That's one reason why I gave Hamyuts a break on her moral indifference; she's serving a god of things past (we'll say, so as not to confuse the matter), not a god that's concerned with things as they are in the present. But Mirepoc's decision is, in fact, a character development, so then it's just a matter of how well it's presented. And in this case, I felt that it wasn't presented that strongly, due to what feels to a viewer like a compression of the narrative timeline. It's especially difficult, as she was one of the few characters who had any real distinguishing characteristics at this point, and who is still alive.

Pretty much most of the major mythologies have gods of time/fate in their pantheons.

Yeah, I look forward to the ants... haha. I like that guy, anyway, so I'm hopeful.

[DeadlySoldier37]

Finally had time to see the last episode, and it wasn't a bad episode.

Now I can tell why Volken doesn't like Hamyuts at all. Since the previous acting director of the church was like his guardian and he taught Volken many things, and he also seems to value the same principles of life and justice as Volken. It seems that Volken admired the previous acting director that when he found out that someone like Hamyuts was overtaking him, someone who didn't share their same beliefs must have been pretty tough for him.

I have to say that I was also disappointed in the fact that Mirepoc decided to erase her memories of Volken. She should have trust him more after all she has been knowing Volken for a long time and she knows that he is a straight forward honest person yet she decide to erase her memories about him. That's like she is lying to herself and killing a part of herself.

Well, looking forward to how this develops from this point forward.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by DeadlySoldier37

I have to say that I was also disappointed in the fact that Mirepoc decided to erase her memories of Volken. She should have trust him more after all she has been knowing Volken for a long time and she knows that he is a straight forward honest person yet she decide to erase her memories about him. That's like she is lying to herself and killing a part of herself.

Well, looking forward to how this develops from this point forward.

Obviously this episode was the weakest episode out of all.

What the hell? Mirepoc erased her memories of Volken for something so trivial? Well OK, not so trivial to Bantorra but come on, she should have trusted the guy a little. They knew each other since like forever and she suddenly randomly decided to erase her memories of Volken while being drunk.

Her love for Volken was merely a childish crush after all.

[Doria]

Well, alcohol has never been known to help people make informed decisions, that I can tell, haha. But to be fair to Mirepoc, she made that decision in the midst of a real sense of betrayal--it's not a rational decision, it's an emotional one. As such, it's a pretty human thing to make what might be a bad decision--and one that might not be made in a calm state--during an emotional moment. But yeah, it wasn't really my favorite episode of them so far.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Doria

I think those speculations are pretty sound, based off the evidence from the eps so far.

On Mirepoc, well... Yeah. I am guessing part of the story here got compressed from the novel, and probably the detriment of that particular plot point. If it's gonna only be 13 eps, though, I suppose it's hard to work everything in and give it the proper weight. But she is my favorite character other than Shiron, so it was a little disappointing how they handled that decision.

You know, people with this fanatism about Justice, are the more dangerous to an organization like the library. They tend to do what Volken did. Justice is more important to them than Duty. Miropoc is the other way around, she think of Duty before justice. That is why people with a strong sense of justice like Volken can't funtion well in a military organization like the library.

[Doria]

That's an excellent way of looking at their characters. I hadn't thought of them in quite those terms. I think you're absolutely right that their relationship is really more important in terms of contrast. It seems obvious in retrospect, but I just hadn't seen them in that light.

Of course, to play devil's advocate, at the far end of spectrum, if the institution is broken, then Justice and Duty can dovetail, since fixing the institution--while it may seem a break with one's Duty--may lead to both having a closer alignment.

Thanks. That was a really interesting way of putting it, and a nice way to think of the underlying thematics in the series!

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by Doria

Pretty much most of the major mythologies have gods of time/fate in their pantheons.

um...to be exact, the god of time is splited into past, present and future. I don't know any mythology which make this separation.

Originally Posted by Zwei

What the hell? Mirepoc erased her memories of Volken for something so trivial? Well OK, not so trivial to Bantorra but come on, she should have trusted the guy a little. They knew each other since like forever and she suddenly randomly decided to erase her memories of Volken while being drunk.

Her love for Volken was merely a childish crush after all.

That's why I don't like the change. What are the production team thinking? But I have no choice but have to accept this.

Just take a look at Mirepoc, she doesn't look like a person who can handle love well. Making this stupid decision is pretty understandable. This is her first love after all

Most of the people said that it was so hard to understand or it was so confusing. I don't think so. Forget all those terms and follow what the characters have done, it is not very difficult to understand their actions, emotions and beliefs. And can make some sound speculations. Golthin and Doria, you are heading on the right track!
It's not really confusing, is it?

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by kemal_1915

Most of the people said that it was so hard to understand or it was so confusing. I don't think so. Forget all those terms and follow what the characters have done, it is not very difficult to understand their actions, emotions and beliefs. And can make some sound speculations. Golthin and Doria, you are heading on the right track!
It's not really confusing, is it?

I'm not really confused, the plot is not confusing if there is PLOT.

I'm just saying Mirepoc made a stupid decision and her love for Volken was nothing more than a childish crush, it's like she was drunk and had a one-night stand with another guy and completey forgot about Volken.

Other than that, it was a boring episode, 4/10.

That's why I don't like the change. What are the production team thinking? But I have no choice but have to accept this.

What do you mean? They aren't following the novels?

[Doria]

Originally Posted by kemal_1915

um...to be exact, the god of time is splited into past, present and future. I don't know any mythology which make this separation.

You can argue pretty strongly for Greek/Roman mythology and its trio of fates. Though it's measured against a person's life, that makes sense for an origin myth. Most mythologies used referents familiar to them (hence the prevalence of sun gods, for example). But I think you can certainly see lachesis, atropos, and clotho as dividing time.

Norse mythology has Uror , Verdandi and Skuld. And I'm sure there are similar corollary gods/goddesses in other pantheons.

@Zwei, while they are following the books, obviously, pacing and narrative sequencing changes a little either for dramatic or logical reasons when adapting to a finite TV series. Some plotlines get emphasized, some may get shortened, etc. It sounds like they've been pretty faithful, just moving up timelines, so some characters may appear a little earlier or some events. I haven't made much headway in them yet, myself, but this is pretty common to any anime based off a longer source.

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by Doria

You can argue pretty strongly for Greek/Roman mythology and its trio of fates. Though it's measured against a person's life, that makes sense for an origin myth. Most mythologies used referents familiar to them (hence the prevalence of sun gods, for example). But I think you can certainly see lachesis, atropos, and clotho as dividing time.

Norse mythology has Uror , Verdandi and Skuld. And I'm sure there are similar corollary gods/goddesses in other pantheons.

Thanks for the info. I have basic knowledge of Western Mythology only because I am a Chinese.

Ep 6...
If anyone can see my face, it won't look good.

Spoiler for about graphic:

All are remarkable downgraded. I can understand the budget is the major reason. I can bear the ep 1 because it isn't really bad, But this ep...I don't know what to say. I hope they have saved some for the big shot in arc 3 and 6.

Hope everything will be better in next ep.

[Doria]

Yeah, but I did like seeing more Noloty. She's a fun character so far! And we have a new mystery, so that's good. I didn't think it was that bad.

Kemal, did you dislike it just for aesthetic reasons or for plot/character reasons?

[Casshern]

The clerks always get it for no reason....

[golthin]

Originally Posted by kemal_1915

If anyone can see my face, it won't look good.

Spoiler for about graphic:

All are remarkable downgraded. I can understand the budget is the major reason. I can bear the ep 1 because it isn't really bad, But this ep...I don't know what to say. I hope they have saved some for the big shot in arc 3 and 6.

this episode was horrible in the graphic side of things. What they did to the girls. Whichever team work on this, they dont know how to draw naked body. You probably didn't notice much difference with Miropoc because she is cover but the other two female characters body were so bad.

[wandering-dreamer]

Quick question, any particular reason that everyone wants to kill Hamusta? Is it because she's the Acting Director or because she seriously pissed someone in the church off?
And I saw that the Star-Crossed anime blog pointed out that the meat shown in this episode seems to be one that appeared with Colio before. I didn't notice myself but is it really the same person both times?

Originally Posted by Casshern

The clerks always get it for no reason....

And that's why you want to be the star on an anime and not a random background character.

[Shiroth]

What a way to go though. Poor clerk didn't deserve that.

[kemal_1915]

Originally Posted by Doria

Yeah, but I did like seeing more Noloty. She's a fun character so far! And we have a new mystery, so that's good. I didn't think it was that bad.

Kemal, did you dislike it just for aesthetic reasons or for plot/character reasons?

The story is still rushing. They have cut those scenes which could increase Noloty's charm. What a waste! Noloty's charm makes people fall for her. That's why her is the most favorite one!

About the story, I have already known it. So, I could focus on graphic, music....

Spoiler for graphic:

I have seen worse. The whole Speed Grapher series and some of the scenes in Macross Frontier are worse than this ep. I still love these two series because they are good. I can stand for those terrible graphic because I don't have much expectation on them.
However, about this series, I want it to be better. I think I am the one of those people which has so much love in it. I wrote most of the info about this series on Wiki (Chinese verison, of course). And I told other people to watch it. If it turns out to be bad, what should I say?
And there is no problem in the first 5 eps. Why this one was so badly done?
I will keep on watching. I hope they will make some improvement.
I can assure you that this arc is good. It is simpler than the last arc. And this is the only arc with good end. Although people are still suffered, the ending is happy.

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

Quick question, any particular reason that everyone wants to kill Hamusta? Is it because she's the Acting Director or because she seriously pissed someone in the church off?
And I saw that the Star-Crossed anime blog pointed out that the meat shown in this episode seems to be one that appeared with Colio before. I didn't notice myself but is it really the same person both times?

Killing the head of a rivalry organization is reasonable choice, isn't it? Also, her attitude is easy to piss everyone off. The church doesn't like her and even some Armed Librarians don't like her!

Yes, he is Relia. The blonde guy who bombed himself to kill Cigal.

Originally Posted by Shiroth

What a way to go though. Poor clerk didn't deserve that.

Occupational hazard?