2011-03-10, 14:10 | Link #22301 | |||||||||
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Join Date: May 2009
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It's really not a problem, not even remotely. Quote:
They were not timely made public. That is inherently suspicious. And that the police released evidence at all... well, isn't that odd too? Ootsuki acts like he's actually seen the original messages, else how would he know whose handwriting it was? Ootsuki didn't make anything up, but Ootsuki will believe what he's told if it makes the situation more interesting. He might check up on a story, but we simply have no proof he ever did so beyond meeting with Ange. Quote:
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Also: Umineko Rei. Hey, if it happens he's got to write about something.
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2011-03-10, 14:32 | Link #22302 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Umineko Rei would most likely be a comedy.
Expectations toward it bringing much truth feels similar to me how nearly everyone expected arc 8 to bring out a clear truth about "Rokkenjima Prime". It most likely then not won't happen. Ryuukishi even said the mystery part of Umineko to be over with the release of arc 7. Even arc 8 I feel for the most part only gave us a lot of munitions for whatever we already believed in. |
2011-03-10, 18:39 | Link #22303 | |||
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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Whew, busy with school work for a couple days and 4+ pages. The discussions on the message bottle writing was interesting. I apologize, just need to respond to a couple posts...
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And just to make my point, if someone did take the stance that they're just pawns and it doesn't matter because they don't have feelings, what would that mean for the conversation between Battler and Beatrice in EP3 when he gets angry and Beatrice reflects on her actions? Are you saying this becomes a very convoluted and ultimately pointless scene, which it would be if it truly was as you say. Where for me it is clear character development. To take this a little farther, since it's relevant, for me when Battler forgives Beatrice it's because he sheds his limited human perspective, and understands the position she was in. Though she was 'playing' with their lives, he understands where she was coming from (her self-justifications and reasoning, her 'heart'), being stuck in this limbo stage of the higher realm. Now for the point about Maria, it's true what Maria is doing is morbid. The fact that the scene happens is because Maria has faced great psychological damage. This is a point where it doesn't really matter if the meta-world exists or not, because the end result is the same. If the meta-world is real, then Beatrice and Maria are in a closed space where together Maria can kill her over and over until she's satisfied, so she'll still be able to accept her mother in the real world. If the meta-world is not real then that means Maria met with Yasu and they planned or discussed the very same things. The end result is the same, I choose to believe the scene happens as shown. I'd say I agree with this statement for the plot. I disagree for the characters. Basically I would say the different Fragments only affect the meta-setting and progression, as shown, and in no way intereferes with the mystery.
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2011-03-10, 22:23 | Link #22304 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2011-03-11, 08:52 | Link #22305 | |||||||||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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And the police was fooled, how? Quote:
Ah and of course you'd also need to think that Ange is completely clueless about anything Rokkenjima incident related to be told all those false claims and buy them all. Quote:
I don't think it's so suspicious that the police didn't make public a completely suspicious message in a bottle that could be completely irrelevant to the case. As far as I know the police doesn't particularly likes journalists and wild speculations. But after another message was discovered they could no longer prevent that. Quote:
Ootsuki must be one of those guys that "wants to believe" but he's competent enough to check his facts. He is an university professor he has a lot to lose in credibility for making claims that any of his detractors could easily prove wrong. Quote:
Why you aren't that skeptical with the bomb theory, even so from the 1998 perspective the only thing that is known are the words of some witnesses about Kinzo's tall talks? Where's the coherence in your logic? Quote:
One bottle was found soon, one bottle was found several years later. There are only two freaking bottles! How exactly can you use the word "most" when the total number is two?! The story I have shown clearly demonstrates that it is absolutely not impossible for a bottle to be found several years after being thrown, even without traveling at all. There is absolutely no reason to distrust a completely plausible story. Quote:
The only thing I can consider is how much they are grounded within the facts presented in the story. So on your second point I don't really think what you suggests matches with what we know about Beatrice at all. She is at best a prankster, not an evil mastermind capable of manipulating the police and the whole world. You are assuming a degree of skill by far higher than what's required to fool a bounce of servants. Also if your theory was right Beatrice would have been able to locate Battler. But there's absolutely nothing that suggests she did. Your theory also raises a lot of questions: how Beatrice survived? Is there a third escape route we aren't aware of? How does she know that Battler survived? Where did she live for all those years? Why Ryuukishi never mentioned anything of that sort? Why everything from a metaphorical sense strongly implies that Beatrice died? Quote:
The latter is only the fruit of your own speculations. Quote:
And that.
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2011-03-11, 09:16 | Link #22306 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I actually do question the bomb thing, because it's absolutely absurd without some rational explanation.
I don't think you really get where I'm going with any of this, and there's really no point shouting at each other over it because he intentionally or unintentionally left this vague. You're pretty much falling over yourself to "demonstrate" things which you don't actually know because there are gaps in the information. Within these gaps, speculation can exist. If he didn't want people questioning these things, he should have provided more definitive evidence. Secondhand sources within the narrative are inherently untrustworthy. As to other survivors, I'm under no obligation to speculate how they would have escaped because Ryukishi has clearly indicated he's willing to conjure up escape routes and boats on a whim. Maybe Beatrice rescued Eva. Maybe she found a second boat. Maybe she hung out underground until Kawabata swung by to pick her up. Maybe she really was a witch and teleported off the island with magic. It's not relevant how so long as it's possible, and frankly the only person it's even implausible for is Maria. That's a door he opened all by his lonesome, so don't come crying to me.
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2011-03-11, 12:56 | Link #22309 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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And Rosa married a lumberjack. And he's awesome.
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2011-03-11, 14:51 | Link #22313 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Hey guys remember when we used to think that it was impossible to find people as crazy as Yasu in the real world who had 2121821821 imaginary friends and personalities?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...maginaryFriend Those were the days. |
2011-03-11, 15:27 | Link #22315 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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The issue was never really whether a person could be bonkers nuts, but whether one could be bonkers nuts and an amazingly coordinated planner, ninja, and diplomat. All while contending with multiple personalities.
I think the DID concept eventually fell out of favor once people realized it needn't rise to that level to work out (acting, fiction, etc.).
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2011-03-11, 16:11 | Link #22317 |
The True Culprit
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Well then fuck it, a fake Maria-jaw was planted as part of the Ushiromiya family's master plan to strike it incredibly rich and famous while dodging out of all their financial problems.
Someone remake Umineko into a "Greatest Heist" movie.
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2011-03-11, 17:07 | Link #22319 |
The True Culprit
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Erika was the detective trying to prevent the heist. Her last shot in the movie will be throwing her hat down and growling as the Ushiromiyas escape in their badass chopper. "Next time, Battler, Next tiiiiime!"
And so begins a Lupin the Third parody.
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