High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Lucidrago]

The list of those in the Top 10 were never given in any particular order. And since Ddraig and Albion were sealed into Sacred Gears they aren't in there anymore. So Hades could be stronger than Ddraig and Albion or he might not. The only thing we know is that Ophis was #1 before she was nerfed and Shiva was #2. Typhon and Fenrir were tied, I guess. And Sirzechs was apparently stronger than Hades. We have no idea where Ddraig and Albion stood when they were in the Top 10.

[DragonOsman]

Fenrir was said to be at Ddraig and Albion's level before he was nerfed. So that should give you an idea. They're as powerful as Typhon if he and Fenrir were tied.

[Lucidrago]

Was Fenrir exactly at their level? Would Ddraig and Albion know? Have Ddraig or Albion ever fought Fenrir? Because Fenrir was in the Top 10, it would make sense to say that he was at the level of the Heavenly Dragons since they were in the Top 10.

[syzorst]

Fenrir in the top 10? He was above Loki?

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Fenrir in the top 10? He was above Loki?

Yes. He easily smacked around tannin. If I remember right been years since I read volume 7. Baraqiel and vali team couldn't do him any serious damage.

[aw454wtr]

Fenrir was at top 10, but I doubt he was at Ddraig and Albions level

it took 3 armies working together to finally defeat Ddraig and Albion who were fighting against each other, if Ddraig and Albion had worked together, the 3 great powers might have lost or suffered even more losses that would have ended the war much more earlier than it originally did

While Tanin is weaker than prime fenrir, midgarzomer did not even view fenrir in its own leauge even calling it as nothing more than a wan wan (doggy)

[Lucidrago]

We have no idea of where Ddraig and Albion were when they were in the Top 10.

And we can't say that Ddraig and Albion would have won if they worked together. All we know is that the Three Factions knew how powerful Ddraig and Albion were and decided to team up and take them down. We don't know if they easily just curbstomped the two with their combined forces or they actually had a fight. All we know is that the Three Factions knew that they couldn't allow Ddraig and Albion to rampage any further and came together to stop them. Who knows. It might have just taken God and the Seraphs to do it except it would be a very long fight and would just cause further destruction. So they could have just teamed up just to cause the least collateral damage and take them out very easily. Because I highly doubt if even Shiva could take on God, the Seraphs, the Satans, and the Fallen Angel leaders by himself. Think about it. Would you want to take on that many powerful beings? We have no idea how strong Ddraig and Albion were exactly. We know they were in the Top 10 but that's it. Saying they could defeat the Three Factions if they teamed up is very far-fetched.

And Fenrir is stronger than Midgardsomir. Fenrir was in the Top 10. Midgardsomir isn't. Midgardsomir is just very laid-back and lazy and really doesn't treat anything seriously. But remember that he's a Dragon King and they are nowhere close to Heavenly Dragon-level. And plus he's a dragon and they really don't care about anything or anyone else. And are pretty arrogant and selfish creatures.

[aw454wtr]

if its a one on one fights i would think Shiva would be able beat god of bible and all other gods/maou's except the dragon gods, Shiva is ranked #2 for a reason

[Parry999]

Ddraig and Albion are also haxed as shit. No one else in the series has shown as many broken abilities for this universe. Being as strong as them physically might not be that far for the top 10. God's dead so his not in the top ten list anyway. So shiva being called second doesn't prove anything.

[DragonOsman]

Their raw power was also Top 10-level, though. They were really powerful. And yes, Fenrir was said to be at the level of Ddraig and Albion in their prime. I showed a quote of Ise saying that more than once already, didn't I?

It was also clearly said in Volume 7 that Fenrir was stronger than his father, Loki. So there shouldn't be a question about that at all.

And Lucidrago, I've said this before: Ddraig and Albion were also exhausted when they fought the Three Great Powers. So was God, probably from sealing Trihexa. But I still think that even if they were all at full power (including God), it would still have needed the combined forces of the Three Great Powers to take them down because their power really shouldn't be taken lightly. Notice that most people below Shiva and Indra make a really big deal out of people that are at Ddraig and Albion's level. Shouldn't that tell you something about how powerful they were? And plus, as Parry said, they also had hax abilities on top of that. Like Penetrate and Reflect.

Yeah, you're right that we don't know if the Three Great Powers combined their forces against them because they thought they needed to or because they just wanted to minimize casualties as much possible by ending the fight as soon as possible. But we have this quote from Ddraig:

[But during the Great War between the three powers, there were two stupid dragons that started a fight. And those two were in the highest class of dragons and they had a power that rivalled that of God and Maou[1 2]. They started to fight each other while taking down the guys of the three powers. For the three powers, there wasn’t anything more troublesome than these two dragons. The three powers were having a serious war to take control of this World, and the two dragons were disturbing the battlefield without any care.]

And:

“Why were the two fighting that much?”
[No idea. It's like they weren't interested in anything at all. The two dragons probably can’t remember the reason why they started to fight. And for the first time, the leaders of the three powers joined hands. “We have to get rid of those two dragons, or else it’s not a matter of war any more!” Like that.]
……The groups who are enemies forming an alliance. And the reason for that is a fight between dragons. It seems complicated.
[The two dragons that got their fight interrupted became mad. [Don’t get in the way of our fight!], [A mere God and Maou shouldn’t be interrupting a duel between dragons!] - they responded like idiots. They went head on and tried to eat God, Maou, and the leaders of the fallen-angels. Well, that was a mistake, I guess.]
They seriously are the ultimate and worst dragons. But I get it now. So those two dragons are……
[In the end the two dragons got cut into pieces and their spirits were sealed within human bodies as Sacred Gears. The two dragons that were sealed within humans used them as vessels, they encountered each other and fought each other countless times. Every time one of them won and one of them died. Sometimes one of them was already dead before the other one came and so they didn’t fight, but most of the times they did. If the vessel, human, dies then the dragons stop functioning for a certain time. Their spirits float around in this world until the humans with dragon powers are born. That cycle has repeated countless times for many long years.]

You can interpret that how you will, but I think it can be taken to mean that, at full power, Ddraig and Albion could've taken God and Maou. They got cut into pieces and sealed into Sacred Gears probably partly because they'd already been fighting for a long time before that (and had already taken out some people from the Three Great Powers, if you notice what Ddraig said here:

They started to fight each other while taking down the guys of the three powers. For the three powers, there wasn’t anything more troublesome than these two dragons.

). So they were also exhausted to some extent. And Ddraig did say that their power rivalled that of God and Maou. It's talking specifically about the God of the Bible here. And in another place, he said he had the power to dominate God. And anyone with the Boosted Gear or Divine Dividing who masters it can kill God.

[Lucidrago]

Can kill gods. Remember how I said how Sacred Gears are a product of Christianity and it would just be out of place to mention 'pagan' gods?

Even at full power, do you think Ddraig and Albion could take on God, the Seraphs, the Maou, and the Fallen Angel leaders together and win? Think about it for a moment. Now I will admit that they would have been exhausted after all that fighting but they weren't exhausted to try to eat God, the Maou, the Seraphs, and the Fallen Angel leaders.

And we don't have any idea of Ddraig and Albion's stats when they had their bodies. So we can't say that they had more raw power than this person, etc.

And I don't think that you should be taking the thing seriously about Ddraig and Albion dominating God. Because Ishibumi just needed to prove a point about Ddraig's and Albion's power and just had to say the most impressive thing possible to basically reinforce that to the readers about how strong those two were. And then later in the story you might find out that it wasn't true. Well it doesn't matter since God is dead and Ddraig and Albion are sealed into Sacred Gears, We have no idea how strong God of the Bible was because Ishibumi hasn't enlightened us on it. And we have no idea how strong Ddraig and Albion were when they were in the Top 10. And all of those in the Top 10 are pretty hacked if you haven't realized or else they wouldn't be up there.

[DragonOsman]

Please realize that Ddraig isn't even from Christianity. He's from the Celtic myths. When someone outside of Christianity compares him-/herself to God of the Bible, it means he/she is really comparing him-/herself to God of the Bible. Him being sealed in a Sacred Gear, which God of the Bible made, has nothing to do with it in this case. And Heavenly Dragon-level is way above Maou-class. Ddraig said that his and Albion's power rivalled that of God and Maou together, right? And then he also said that he had the power to dominate God. He had the power to dominate God individually, and his power rivalled God and Maou when they fought together. That's what he was saying.

As for Ophis being the only one God couldn't take on carelessly. I've talked before about a way to think of this such that it won't seem like an inconsistency while also considering the above.

And we do have some idea of Ddraig and Albion's power at their primes.

Our opponent is a God. But the biggest problem is the wolf he is carrying with him. Fenrir.
A real monster which has power surpassing that of its father. What I heard was that it has a power on par with the Two Heavenly Dragons before they were sealed, and even Sensei and oldman Tannin can’t beat it one on one.

From Volume 7, Life 3. And it was also said that Fenrir's fangs have the power to kill Gods. He's like a living Longinus.

“Ise! That is one of the worst and greatest creatures! It has the fangs which can definitely kill a God! If you get bitten by it, even that armour won’t last!”

By Azazel in Volume 7, Life 2.

Edit: Also, if your argument defaults to "Ishibumi likes to overhype," then we could keep going forever. Because:

If the refute is simply "Ishibumi overhypes" there's no point in arguing. Anything you don't like you can just say Ishibumi overhypes. Crom isn't stronger than Ddraig, Ishibumi just overhyped. Fenrir, Apophis, Azi Dahaka aren't Heavenly Dragon level, Ishibumi overhyped. I could go on.

Don't see any point in continuing this pointless debate that's not going anywhere.

There are cases where he does overhype but it's clearly not the case for Bible God.

Hakaishin said that to me. And this, too:

Even after coming to Volume 18 nothing suggests Ddraig dominating God was some sort of overhype.

And also this:

"couldn't take on carelessly" is vague. Does it say Ophis is the only one stronger than God? No.

The reason she's the only one he couldn't be careless against could be because of all the angles and warriors from church under God, they were all devoted to God. You don't have to interpret this as God's one vs one combat strength.

There's another way to interpret the quote where Ddraig said Ophis was the only being God couldn't take on carelessly. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that Ophis was the only one stronger than God. Ddraig and Albion were also stronger than God.

[Lucidrago]

But before Volume 4 before the Alliance were they mentioning how Ddraig and Albion could kill gods? And I know that Ddraig is from Celtic mythology. But like I said Ddraig and Albion were reduced to Sacred Gears, which were a product of Christianity. So it wouldn't make sense for someone from Christianity to mention 'pagan' gods. And when talking about Ddraig and Albion it was talking about their power when the Boosted Gear or Divine Dividing was mentioned. And like I said before, Sacred Gears are a product of Christianity which were created by God. Because do we even know God's power level to even be sure to say that Ddraig and Albion could defeat him? Have they ever fought? Do we know how that battle went or if it was even a battle when the Three Factions came together to stop Ddraig's and Albion's fight?

[DragonOsman]

Ddraig knew how strong God was. He may have seen it at that time. I wouldn't put it past battle-loving Dragons like Ddraig and Albion to have a certain sense for that kind of thing. Just look at how Goku and Vegeta can be when it comes to that. And Ddraig has said more than once that he's stronger than God of the Bible. Saying that he and Albion had power that rivalled that of God and Maou, and also saying that he had the power to dominate God. Ddraig may be inside a Sacred Gear now, but he himself still doesn't belong to Christianity. Just being sealed inside a Sacred Gear doesn't suddenly change that or anything.

I mean, would you also say that kind of thing about Balor or any other beasts or Dragons sealed inside Sacred Gears that aren't from Christianity?

Azazel belongs to Christianity, but even he said to Ise that Fenrir's fangs have the power to "definitely kill a God".

And did you ignore what I said here?

And then he also said that he had the power to dominate God. He had the power to dominate God individually, and his power rivalled God and Maou when they fought together.

Ddraig said that because he knew how strong God was and was able to tell that he's stronger than God. You really think he wouldn't have been able to tell with all the battle experience he'd had? So yes, Ddraig did have the power to dominate God. Because he said so.

And you said it wasn't mentioned before Volume 4 that Ddraig and Albion could kill Gods? Do you think that Raynare saying that the Boosted Gear was said to have the power to surpass God and Maou doesn't count? Here:

“B-Boosted Gear…… One of the [Longinus] …… Even though it’s for a temporarily time, it’s said that it has the power to surpass Maous and God…… Are you telling me that hateful power is possessed in a boy like this!?”

That's from Volume 1, Life 4. And before you say again anything about Sacred Gears being a product of Christianity, just know that that's not the only reason that they say these things. I'm sure they'd still mention pagan Gods if they meant to talk about them. The fact that they specifically mentioned God of the Bible means they mean him and not any other God. And yeah, Ddraig and Albion are already known to be a lot stronger than the original Maou or Maou-class in general. Heavenly Dragon-level > Maou-class. But we can also say that Heavenly Dragon-level > God-class, with the exception of the Trimurti and Indra, and of course also Ophis and Great Red because those two are the only Dragons stronger than Ddraig and Albion.

[syzorst]

Here's another. How strong does the main cast get 30 years in the future. Issei, Rias, Akeno, Xenovia, Irina, Gasper etc. Not counting side characters like Sona or Sairorg.

Well okay, we know Gasper becomes a Super Devil and Issei and Vali are above Heavenly Dragon level by that time. What about the females though? Does anyone think Akeno is as strong as her father or surpassed him? Is Irina close to Micheal level? Xenovia is a toss up because it's hard to say since she already beat Strada and by now she's surpassed him so she could rival Maou classl in 30 years. Koneko could be ultimate class. Not counting Ravel because she doesn't really fight and serves more lf a tactician.

[Lucidrago]

Well all of the Gremory group in the future will be Satan-class or higher in my opinion. Michael is most likely Satan-class. Baraqiel is most likely the third strongest fallen angel behind Azazel and Shemhazai and is basically the strongest fallen angel power-wise. He's most likely not as strong as the Satans like Serafall and Falbium and not as strong as the Great Seraphs, but still would most likely be Satan-class. And since Akeno's a Fallen Angel leader in the future, she's definitely something. And Vasco Strada beat back Kokabiel when he was in his prime, so that speaks to his strength. With all of the abilities of the Gremory group I can see them all being Satan-class(excluding Issei and Gasper because we know they're Super Devils in the future and Asia because she isn't a combatant but is still OP in terms of healing and is most likely the best healer in this series). Because the Gremory group is full of monsters even more so than Sirzechs' peerage and that's saying something.

[Parry999]

https://youtu.be/7hzhy0whm8o this is probably why Hades a major villain a lot. Know zeus can't hold him back.

[DragonOsman]

I agree with Lucidrago on this. All of the Gremory group should be Maou-class or higher in the future, with Ise being well above Heavenly Dragon-level. Gasper and Ise are likely Super Devils. Asia and Ravel aren't combatants, so we can't say much about them in that regard, but at least Asia herself is OP as a healer and her barrier in Balance Breaker mode is almost invincible.

[Lucidrago]

Well Ravel is a combatant and can fight. She did fight against Trihexa and the Evil Dragon Army in Volume 21 when Issei was still unconscious and when they went to the coast of Japan to stop Azazel, Trihexa, and the Evil Dragon Army. But Ravel's not a part of the Gremory group.

[Sparda4]

Well if Ravel goes full blow Phoenix mode then ok she's a fighter but right now i'd say she's fire support if you will. Not the front line but ain't the medic either. Tho i would LOVE to see her fight because we haven't seen the fire of the Phoenix in a LONG time.