2011-04-25, 20:43 | Link #22681 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
|
Quote:
Battler, looks NOTHING like Kyrie, doesn't even have her white hair.(But neither does Ange). I'm not sure if that's just typical anime protagonism though. |
|
2011-04-25, 23:51 | Link #22682 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Where you're not.
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-04-26, 07:40 | Link #22683 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
|
Quote:
However, you only have to explain Ange's absence in EP's 1 and 2 - every story after that, the writers were aware that Ange wasn't there because ... well, you know - the incident had already happened, and Ange wasn't there. The solution really ... depends on the degree to which you think Yasu is a murderer. Quote:
Again, the "solution" depends on how much credit you're giving Yasu as a culprit. I assume the other creepy safety-deposit money boxes was Yasu literally bribing off every Fukuin servant capable of denying Kanon, since even the surviving servants who were working in 1986 verified the accuracy of Kanon, presumably having seen "him" at least once or so. Regarding Beatrice, well, yeah, I agree - that was totally not a woman who just had a baby. You can explain it as either Loli-Beato being SO sheltered and naive, that she didn't really understand what she'd just gone through. You could also say, and this agrees with Will mentioning that that theory was only possible in EP5, and that you only need EP1-4 to "solve the mystery", that Yasu being the child of that Beatrice was considered an unecessary element, and simply ignored in EP1-4, outside of the siblings theorizing about Kinzo having a secret-baby. XD Also, I think it'd be kinda weird to surrogate the kid away to someone ... Kumasawa had multiple kids, who presumably might've mentioned their mother's new surprise-baby, as far as Asumu knows she gave birth in the hospital that day (the baby switch from within the same hospital is already lulzy enough...), and Kyrie lol. Natsuhi had been noted pretty early on as having had trouble conceiving. >_> Quote:
And hardly anybody looks like ANYBODY - Ushiromiya genes are like a freakin wheel of fortune. Well, Battler is said to look like Rudolf, and both are said to have resembled Kinzo, I think, so ... XD |
|||
2011-04-26, 08:14 | Link #22684 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Inertia could explain the Ange issue; because she didn't appear in two episodes, she doesn't appear in any written later.
As an example of how this need not conform to reality, imagine that on R-Prime Ange was there, and died with the rest, and the girl known as "Ange" in the future is a fraud Okonogi cooked up to scam Eva. Of course there's zero evidence for this (let alone how Eva wouldn't notice), so it's just an example. But it wouldn't change the fact that the original author didn't think Ange was going to be there or didn't write anything suggesting she would be there, and later writings followed it. Narrative thus confirms to expectations, even if those expectations are fundamentally flawed. That's really the whole basis for the fictionalization of Kanon.
__________________
|
2011-04-26, 10:15 | Link #22685 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
I'd say Yasu's plan involved Ange not being there (and Battler being there). It seems like the most satisfying resolution to this problem. I'd also say that the storm was immaterial as Yasu was going to make preparations to seal off the island (with Kuwabata in on it, possibly), so the actual weather on the day would be irrelevant.
|
2011-04-26, 12:19 | Link #22686 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-04-27, 02:03 | Link #22687 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
|
Now I'm really confused again, I'm rereading ep's 1-4 to pick up on extra hints I might have missed, and right off the bat I'm noticing things.
For one, Battler's fear of shaking vehicles, really reminds me of Asumu. Also, the seating arrangement in the air plane. The announcer announced the seating arrangement as (from right to left downward): Hideyoshi, Eva, George, Battler, Rudolph, Kyrie, Maria, Rosa. Wait, weren't they called off by rank? Meaning that Maria should be last, and shouldn't(at least) Battler be at least in a lower seating than his parents? Just sort of confused me. Another note, is that these adults seem really nice. This is also from Battler's perspective(I'm guessing?). I'm assuming I'm going to find a lot more hints I missed reading further but this confused me a little. Lol @ this forshadowing of Rosa remembering her year old promise to Kumasawa to bring back Tea Leaves she promised her the year before. Even funnier is ''This sort of thoughfulness is just like Rosa-Oba san, she's the type that would never forget or break a promise. Whether or not Kumasawa baa-chan remembered this year old promise, she seemed touched by the simple fact that someone would give a gift to a servant like her'' Last edited by cronnoponno; 2011-04-27 at 02:16. |
2011-04-27, 07:28 | Link #22689 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Where you're not.
|
If we're talking about rankings, it should go like this:
First is the oldest male (Kinzo), then his children from oldest to youngest (Krauss, Eva, Rudolf, Rosa), his grandchildren based on the age of his children (Jessica, George, Battler, Maria), and finally his children's spouses, who aren't related by blood (Natsuhi, Hideyoshi, Kyrie).
__________________
|
2011-04-27, 09:00 | Link #22690 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
But again, who could say that judge Wargrave did not have the whole universe helping him in his "game?" |
||
2011-04-27, 13:05 | Link #22691 |
Game Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
We could just say that Kyrie knew something serious was about to happen and she arranged things in order to keep Ange out of that family conference. Maybe, if we consider her the true murderer, she had already planned a massacre...
That would mean Yasu knew what Kyrie was planning... well, forget it, I guess it just doesn't work. |
2011-04-28, 12:19 | Link #22693 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
|
Quote:
It's not necessarily that she made plans to kill everyone, it could be that she brought a gun because she suspected something and that during the events she may have been unusually on guard, for example. And Kyrie, Rudolf or Yasu, together or independently could have decided to leave Ange behind. |
|
2011-04-28, 15:12 | Link #22695 |
Game Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
Yes, but my problem is that I couldn't imagine how did Yasu know that when she wrote those stories...
Well, I've got used to accept this kind of explanations in Umineko, even though I can't consider them neat. Last edited by Sorcerer of Miracles; 2011-04-28 at 15:29. |
2011-04-29, 03:12 | Link #22699 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
|
By the way, on one higher level, this means Yasu and Battler/Tooya both know about Battler's parentage. Well maybe Tooya figured it out after..
From Tooya's perspective, if he did, he figured it out from just the hint about Rudolf needing to speak to Kyrie and Battler. So I think he must have suspected it from out of Battler's memories, enough to be sure enough to give the hint in episode 4. Which means to me that Battler prime must have known alot more about what was going on than the both Meta Battler and Piece Battler.Which maybe explains the end of episode 8 and his attitude towards Beatrice (i.e. He loved her already when if he had really forgotten about her he should have acted more like in the stories after just two days.) |
2011-04-29, 07:15 | Link #22700 | ||||||
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It's probable that Yasu conceived of Shannon as an ideal maid, but when she emerged as an alternate personality, she only had Yasu's training, so she made mistakes when her concentration slipped. The biggest arguments for Kanon as an alter is the red text saying only he could have claimed his name in EP2, and his attempt to stop Beatrice by committing suicide in EP1. |
||||||
|
|