Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

:P I really can't believe the amount of delusional shipping going on in this thread. There've been some good, intelligent posts in these past couple pages about why Lelouch's death was well and truly fitting--far and beyond the life and happiness of any one person. He made his sacrifice for each and every person he had ever known--promises to one lonely soul can't even compare (or rather, to say that he hadn't fulfilled it is utter selfishness).

After discovering the truth behind his father and mother, Lelouch decided to offer the world a chance at happiness, broken by loss and the weight of his own sins. At the cost of his own life, he would redeem himself to his friend Suzaku, and atone for the meaningless deaths whose fault he bore (Euphemia, Shirley). At the same time, he would curse Suzaku with his mask for all time--a mask soaked in the blood of others, and now his own. As has been said, there were other solutions: Lelouch didn't have to pay for his actions, and the chance his life bought will be fleeting. Charles, Schniezel, and Nunally, each were seeking their own future, and each could have bought peace for another price. He died, however, because this was his story. Lelouch left the world accompanied by the tears of many; bearing the sins of the world, he lied til the last.

This ending was great. Lelouch, I forgive you. For all the tomorrows you crushed in your arrogance, you left a brighter one in the end. I was a fool to think you'd forsaken Shirley. No, what you'd forsaken was your own happiness. But you still treasured it to the end.

"The morning will come. Up till now, I didn't know what I came here for. But maybe I came to put an end to something. Even though there are a lot of things you can't forget, and a lot of sad things too, the morning will still come, right? So there's no need to overdo it by bearing them in your heart."

You looked so peaceful as you closed your eyes. As if you had done what you had come to do. As if you could finally turn to your place of rest. So rest. Rest in peace. Morning has come.

Beautiful post. I actually cried reading it, something I did not do (though was near to) while watching the ending.

[DmonHiro]

Or Xinke might be the one taking the picture.....this is COde Geass, anythig goes

[mr.questionguy]

man,great episode,so sad its the last T.T . Seriously kick ass series,the ending was well thought of,however they did leave us some annoying things to ponder upon:

1. What is C.C's real NAME?????!!!???

2.if i recall in Lelouch's flash back there were many moments,including a kiss with C.C,exactly when did that happen?cuz i dont remember that.

3.Does C.C continue to live forever or does she live a normal mortal life??

4.(this is more of hope) i really do wish that there will be a OVA to fill us in on these small yet(to some people) important issues.

Once again,Great Series.

[vip2cool]

Totally Epic Show!! The sad ending scene with the bg song was just sensational..

and i think lulu is the drive.. when CC says "Right? Lelouch", if you watch closely, u can see her eyeball move towards the front of the wagon!

[CHANGE]

Originally Posted by C.A.

No, its been said earlier, that is Nunnally's understanding touch.

Meh, I don't know... that doesn't sound very solid to me. If you're trying to say that comprehension of Lelouch's intent suddenly dawned on her at that moment, they didn't need to literally "flash" to those shots that they had shown only moments before.

If you're saying she has some weird power as some obscure reference to one of the manga story lines, please explain.

Like I said it might be reaching or maybe the writers really did want to have speculation overshadowing the end. The only reason I mentioned it, is that actually might be a plausible way of bringing Lelouch back into the series without blowing away the integrity of the story. Btw Lelouch is sooo not the carriage driver lol.

Leaving these kinds of questions is probably how they wanted to end the series anyway, and if there was an OVA ( I really don't think they'll have a 3rd series) it will probably be some type of recap or, like others have said, an origin based plot.

I guess I always wanted a happy ending, but considering how many people died in this series (nice people!) it had to end as either a reset, like they reset all the terrible events some how ( I'm so glad they didn't do that) or Lelouch had to die... but man I can't believe they didn't even let him kiss CC in ep 24 with an ending like this planned, but maybe that would have given it away.

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

:P I really can't believe the amount of delusional shipping going on in this thread. There've been some good, intelligent posts in these past couple pages about why Lelouch's death was well and truly fitting--far and beyond the life and happiness of any one person. He made his sacrifice for each and every person he had ever known--promises to one lonely soul can't even compare (or rather, to say that he hadn't fulfilled it is utter selfishness).

After discovering the truth behind his father and mother, Lelouch decided to offer the world a chance at happiness, broken by loss and the weight of his own sins. At the cost of his own life, he would redeem himself to his friend Suzaku, and atone for the meaningless deaths whose fault he bore (Euphemia, Shirley). At the same time, he would curse Suzaku with his mask for all time--a mask soaked in the blood of others, and now his own. As has been said, there were other solutions: Lelouch didn't have to pay for his actions, and the chance his life bought will be fleeting. Charles, Schniezel, and Nunally, each were seeking their own future, and each could have bought peace for another price. He died, however, because this was his story. Lelouch left the world accompanied by the tears of many; bearing the sins of the world, he lied til the last.

This ending was great. Lelouch, I forgive you. For all the tomorrows you crushed in your arrogance, you left a brighter one in the end. I was a fool to think you'd forsaken Shirley. No, what you'd forsaken was your own happiness. But you still treasured it to the end.

"The morning will come. Up till now, I didn't know what I came here for. But maybe I came to put an end to something. Even though there are a lot of things you can't forget, and a lot of sad things too, the morning will still come, right? So there's no need to overdo it by bearing them in your heart."

You looked so peaceful as you closed your eyes. As if you had done what you had come to do. As if you could finally turn to your place of rest. So rest. Rest in peace. Morning has come.

I agree with everything said here. Except 'delusional shipping' sorry that sounded a bit offensive. Everyone's been entitled to there opinions, no matter how far fetched it is, heck, a lot of characters expected to die came back, just not Lelouch. And I still can't really forget about how the production went, I mean I like the ending, but if you thinking about it, its like "He made everyone hate him, kill him for the sake of the world, and everybody is happy" he certainly doesn't deserve that sort of treament, but he took it anyway, because fact is not many characters know the 'truth' about his actions, and this act is what makes Lelouch a hero, willing to do anything for the sake of good.

Forgot to mention "After discovering the truth behind his father and mother" Marianne's character felt rushed too. She was portrayed as someone so serene, elegant, gentle but tough and worth many's respect. However, prior to her introduction she had the attitude of a kid. Playful yes, but, err yeh you see where I'm getting at, going back to how production went.

Originally Posted by mechalord

If there is a season 3... no new main character. I don't like when they do that.

If there is an S3 it will take place a short period of time after R2. A few months to a few years later... 6 months to 2 years.

A new main character would equal a Code Geass spinoff series and not really a third season.


Yeah, they left too many things unanswered. In shows like this they will delve deep into the supernatural/alien origins on which the series is based upon before they end it.

Code Geass never went into Geass.

The amount of surviving characters and the "hints" that Lelouch is alive.... points to the production team leaving themselves a way to continue the series but still provide an adequate ending to the series even if it doesn't continue.

It also seems like they were messing around with the survivor list up until the last second. Sayoko and Xingke were missing from the wedding picture and from many ending shots. They could have been dead in many drafts of the ending only for them to survive at the last second and be hastily included before they wrapped up.

Xingke's absence in the epilogue really, really stands out ... since Tianzi is featured so prominantly and XIngke is the guy who promised to watch over her and he's missing.


------------------------

By the way. Tianzi and Kaguya are both secretary generals in the UFN, I believe. The picture in Kallen's boad is of Gino, Minami, and Tianzi hanging out. Gino may be Brittanias rep in the organization for all we know.

It's just that I stress on the hoping part because Taniguchi might have lost interest after the dilemma he went with concerning the production of the series. But yes, hoping isn't too bad, maybe, just maybe, some new CG season/continuity may come

[CHANGE]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Xingke's absence in the epilogue really, really stands out ... since Tianzi is featured so prominantly and XIngke is the guy who promised to watch over her and he's missing.

I really agree with this. There is no way the artists put all the other members of the Chinese troupe in that wedding photo and forgot to add Xingke, it was definitely intentional, meaning they are implying his death.

Frankly, I think they look a little too happy...

[pokeu]

ZOMGZ... STILL NOBODY REALISE THAT that plan will never go through if C.C. disagrees with it? She'd try something really funny with Lelouch like put him in perma-mindshock just to stop him from dying.

Ever since the first episode, she has been preserving his life.

She would resort to crippling him if he desired to head out to die.

If he was in imminent danger, she'd sacrifice herself(even if she cann't die) for him. Pain? Memmories? all for Lelouche

Even in the episode where Charles was about PWN Lelouch... she totally saved him and let him enter Her World.

Sure she had to lie to him for that, but she couldn't let the fact that she really loved him go. She rejected Charles and planned to collapse the entire area, intending for Lelouche to escape.

When Marianne spoke to her and rhetorically questioned the worthiness of saving Lelouch (because Charles cann't die... duh), C.C. was clearly unhappy.

When the shit was over n C.C. chose to stay with Lelouche, she will definitely choose it for her own wishes to come true.

As with the past few episodes, she still remains the same, she hasn't really changed... and the part where Kallen beat her and she said "You win this time round", and "I didn't expect myself to still have concerns about such matters remaining in my heart (yeah i watched RAW so leme word it my way), she definitely wasn't going to let Lelouche die.

Throughout, she has always felt that she owed Lelouche a life somewhat for giving him the Geass, as shown in the Church.

She has always been questioning his pains, etc. She will NEVER, let him DIE because of HER.

(Or she'd be so broken up she wouldn't be on that wagon)

*Jeremiah smiled when Lelouche supposedly died

In the very last scene, we see C.C., but she looked HAPPY.

As in the scenes before Lelouche's capture in season 1, he saw her memories. He promised her that he will make her happy. that he will BECOME A WARLOCK.

Her suffering was as such, she has seen so much of the rebellion constantly happening etc... blah blah blah, she knows. In her case, we can conclude to a certain extent that even if the world was better or worse, it did not matter to her as long as Lelouche lived.

SHE WOULD NEVER ALLOW HIS PLAN TO GO AHEAD WITHOUT HER APPROVAL. Lelouche as Zero knows that, as can be seen from the episode after he beat Britainnia in China. SHE CARES MORE ABOUT *ahemz* THAN ABOUT SUCCESS OF PLANS WHATSOEVER.

So with all these evidence... and a happy C.C., it is entirely logical to conclude that, Lelouche survives! (Or C.C. will make it happen)

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by pokeu

(Or C.C. will make it happen)

Thats the only way I can really see Lelouch ever coming back. C.C, Charles Code or just the Codes themselves are the only plot devices to bring him back. Other then that, he's dead, and he died like the hero he is.

Man, come on R3 come into the minds of Sunrise and tell them to greenlight it XD

[don1235]

Frankly, I very disappointed with the ending of code geass because Lelouch die. I felt that his death was unnecessary and wasteful. The only purpose was to make this anime into a tragedy. In fact, may I ask, are you encouraging suicide as a solution to the problems of the world or the washing away of sins?

There are many arguments for Lelouch’s death. One of the main reasons is that he has to pay for his own sins. YOU DO NOT PAY FOR YOUR SINS BY DEATH. You pay for them by living and making amends, death is any easy way out. Further, there are many characters in the anime that never paid for their sins and has a happy end or stay alive. Nunnally Lamperouge, Schneizel el Britannia and Cornelia were responsible for the destruction of Pendragon and death of millions. Schneizel was the man who pursued the weapon of destruction and caused numerous deaths. Nina created the weapon. Cornelia was her father’s tool throughout season 1, subjecting and killing numerous people. The Black Knights betrayed their lord Zero and sold him out like a piece of meat without a fair trial. What is their punishment?

Secondly, taking the role of the reviled figure and absorbing the hatred of humanity, so that humanity can move. That is bullshit. Humanity will also find new wars, new hates and new enemies. The death of Hitler did not give rise to peace. Instead communism and the cold war was the result. The destruction of the iron curtain and fall of Soviet Union created Islamic Fascism. Nature hates a vacuum. Instead, Lelouch could have stayed alive to keep the peace and benefit the whole of humanity with his genius. Nunnally, an inexperienced girl, Suzaku Kururugi, a man with more brawn than brains are now totally dependent on Schneizel, who is proven to be Lelouch’s inferior to maintain the ship. A total waste of Lelouch’s talent.

Thirdly, the destruction of geass. You might as well ask for the destruction of Freya by killing Nina. All weapons are double-edged. Thy can be used for good or evil.

[bran]

She would resort to crippling him if he desired to head out to die.

lelouch said he'd even kill nunally if she was in the way of ZR what makes you think he'll let CC stop him
she had to obey

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Kurz

Lelouch is not dead... he is the caravan driver.
Why the hell is caravan driver pretty much masked head to toe?

Well not 100%, its up to you to decide what happen to him.
Oh wells.

That's a good point. I think Sunrise is deliberately trying make people assume the possibility that the driver is Lelouch, that's why the driver is masked.

And you're right, everyone as their opinion on whether he lived or not. Maybe an OVA will have the answer (if one is ever made)? That said, I'll keep on believing that Lelouch will miraculously return just like how some episodes ago there are many characters we thought were dead (Sayoko, Nunally, Guilford, Cornelia) all able to come back alive. Lelouch can do the same.

It's sad, but time to close the Code Geass storybook. I'll miss the times when I have a new episode to look forward to on Mondays.

[bran]

he's masked because people look like that in the countryside
they have to cover their mouth because of the dirt when they work and have hats to protect themselves from the sun duh

[Auron Requies]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

It's sad, but time to close the Code Geass storybook. I'll miss the times when I have a new episode to look forward to on Mondays.

Here Here! And to think I was sick of uptodates (since watching the whole thing at once was more fitting) but with 'nothing' *sign I hate the feeling when an anime ends. But, life goes on. All Hail Lelouch! (lol best quote for this series)

[vip2cool]

Originally Posted by bran

lelouch said he'd even kill nunally if she was in the way of ZR what makes you think he'll let CC stop him
she had to obey

saying it doesn't mean he will do it.. i personally think lelouch would never hurt nunally

[bran]

Originally Posted by vip2cool

saying it doesn't mean he will do it.. i personally think lelouch would never hurt nunally

he even geassed her something he would have never done
to bend her will
but he did it for ZR
it was too important to let anyone stand in his way not CC not Suzaku not even Nunally

[finalnight]

My thoughts after the day and a good night's sleep:

Good points of the ep:
Music
Animation quality
Jeremiah's battle and conclusion
Kallen/Suzaku's final battle
Arthur (I salute you epic cat one final time)
Lelouch's death scene (how it was animated/done, not how it fit the story)

Bad points of the ep:
Overuse of montages (same thing in episode 24)/overall rushed feeling(They should have gone though the op/ed like Macross did)

Closing the story then adding on the Lelouch death scene (should have had him die in the final battle if you were going to do it)

The whole Lelouch death in the grand scheme of the story: sorry, but the whole "dying for our sins thing" may appeal to christians/etc, but in anime terms, it never works. Remember, Treize bit it, another enemy sprung up in endless waltz. Celestial Being sacrificed themselves and created a new dictatorship, and so forth. I hate it when the main char is killed just to generate notice/attention/discussion. His death was completely unneccesary and leaving the vague ending so we can "think what we want" is a typical writer/creator copout to generate more discussion/attention and leave the door open to further cash-cow-milking (Witch Hunter Robin, any Gundam series). You want to kill him? Fine, kill him but make it clear he is dead or make it clear that he comes back to life. Heroic Age did this well while still retaining the importance of the hero's death. This reminded me of the ending to the Matrix series and that is NOT a trilogy you want to be compared to. He could easily have come back to life and his sacrifice still stood as both he and Suzaku would still be "dead" as Lelouch would have to suffer eternal life/exile and Suzaku would be stuck as the thing he hated the most for his whole life.

Last bad point: More dangling/open plot points than a season of 24, good lord.

Oh, and lets get this thread to 3000 posts as I think then, only the finale of Bleach might one day surpass it. To infinity!

[SaintessHeart]

Well the reason why Nunnally succumbed to the Geass is because she is unsure in her heart.

After Lulu's world piece speech, she seems to bear the same dream as him to work for world peace. It is her doubt that caused her to hand over the key of Damocles.

I don't think Lelouch died anyway. C.C said that Geass makes people lonely, but she doesn't agree. Probably because both she and Lelouch have each other. IMO, Lelouch broke the chain curse of the geass, solitude, so he is something like Luke Skywalker (anyway the way Nunnally is treated makes Lelouch seem like Luke anyway. Which elder brother in the right mind would purposefully let his loli sister be bondaged like that?)

[AceD]

the only grounds for a spin off / another season, would be if Orange broke Schneizel's geass to obay zero, he would probably attack then

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by bran

he's masked because people look like that in the countryside
they have to cover their mouth because of the dirt when they work and have hats to protect themselves from the sun duh

Well, I'll leave you to your opinion. I had a good time watching the end and not really in the mood to argue. Lelouch's fate is pretty open ended so I'm expecting to see some more arguments about his fate for the next few days.

Originally Posted by Voracious Hollow

the only grounds for a spin off / another season, would be if Orange broke Schneizel's geass to obay zero, he would probably attack then

That's probably going to happen if ever the geass that Lelouch put on Schneizel would be removed.
Though I don't see any reason for Orange to do that, Orange is loyal to LeLouch and not Schneizel.